PDA

View Full Version : Is it possible to heat mount fibre prints onto aluminium?



DannyTreacy
25-Mar-2018, 01:54
Hi,

Iíve been looking on YouTube for examples of this but canít see any, has anyone tried heat mounting fibre based prints on aluminium as oppose to mount board?

Thanks.

j.e.simmons
25-Mar-2018, 03:36
40+ years ago I used dry mount tissue to mount a fiber print to aluminum foil. My idea was to test it for permanence. I still have the print. So, the tissue will stick to aluminum. My concern would be whether the press heats enough for thicker aluminum, and whether the mass of the aluminum would hold heat too long. I’d have to test.

Denny
25-Mar-2018, 04:25
It's certainly possible to mount paper to aluminum, do a search for Irving Penn prints mounted to aluminum, he was using relatively heavy sheets of aluminum. I routinely mount on aluminum for registering multiple exposures. I use Dry Lam Colortac dry mount tissue. I'm mounting heavy weight paper, watercolor weight, to aluminum flashing, and I'm using temperatures comparable to those used in normal drymounting.

bob carnie
25-Mar-2018, 06:39
I have mounted fiber prints to aluminum.. Flo Bond tissue is used , I hate doing it ..

DannyTreacy
25-Mar-2018, 06:47
Thanks for the replies, I'll certainly look at Penn's work on aluminum. In the past I've had large scale (215cm x 180cm) C-41 prints mounted on aluminum by professional mounters but as I'm planning on doing a series of 10" x 8" direct b&w contacts I thought I'd have a go at doing it myself and save money in the long run.

Can I ask about the procedure for doing it, is it the same setup for when mounting onto board? How are the edges of the print and the aluminum married up?

Bob, why do you hate doing it?

Thanks all!

bob carnie
25-Mar-2018, 06:56
The flow bond is very flimsy, and is tricky to work with.. Its the only material that I would recommend for hot application.... cold application will not work with silver prints.. but you are doing small prints, why the need to mount- is there a presentation method you see valuable ??

Getting the correct temp is critical, pressure and did I mention the cost of the material...

Mounting to aluminum is something I have done a lot for Pt Pd and gum prints that require many coatings and of course this means paper shrinkage for aluminum.

Denny
25-Mar-2018, 07:37
I have to agree with Bob, it isn't fun. But the Dry Lam Colortac tissue is pretty easy to work with (at least it isn't flimsy). I find I get the best results by leaving the mounted paper in the press while it cools off, so it's OK for one-at-a-time mounting, not as useful for high volume production work. I'm not particular about precise alignment of the sheet onto the aluminum, but I imagine you could use the same techniques as you would use mounting to museum board.

DannyTreacy
25-Mar-2018, 09:23
cold application will not work with silver prints.. but you are doing small prints, why the need to mount- is there a presentation method you see valuable ??

Yes I intend to float mount the images within a larger frame, which would be glazed. Does that make sense ?

Denny
25-Mar-2018, 09:29
You might think about drymounting the prints to museum board and then using archival double-sided tape to attach the museum board to aluminum. Dry mounting to museum board is a lot easier than aluminum, and using archival tape would make it easier to align the print on the aluminum.

robshepherd
25-Mar-2018, 10:22
I used to mount cotton rag paper to aluminum sheets for the purpose of registering multiple gum bichromate printings. I used Fusion 4000 mounting adhesive. It's available from Talas. The mounting process worked very well, and it was easy. However, I was not able to successfully reheat and remove a print from the aluminum. The aluminum sheet I used was recycled offset printing plates - thin enough to cut with an x-acto knife in a few passes.

Bob Salomon
25-Mar-2018, 10:24
I have to agree with Bob, it isn't fun. But the Dry Lam Colortac tissue is pretty easy to work with (at least it isn't flimsy). I find I get the best results by leaving the mounted paper in the press while it cools off, so it's OK for one-at-a-time mounting, not as useful for high volume production work. I'm not particular about precise alignment of the sheet onto the aluminum, but I imagine you could use the same techniques as you would use mounting to museum board.

There are two types of dry mounting presses: hard bed presses that have a hard metal platen on the top and the bottom, this type of press mounts under heat and pressure in the press. An example of this type of press is the Ademco.
The second is a press with a metal top and a foam bottom. For instance a Seal press. This type of press bonds in the press and the best mount is outside the press with a weight placed on the print and mount. Seal made weights for this purpose.
There are also commercial dry mount presses that mounted with heat and vacuum pressure but these are not common for small production jobs.

Any of these types of presses can mount fiber or RC paper to mount board, foam plaques, wood boards, ceramic plaques, metal plates, glass, acrylic, etc. as long as the proper technique for the materials are used as well as the proper bonding agent. That is why Seal, Ademco, Technal and others offered a range of mounting tissues and laminate bonding materials.

bob carnie
25-Mar-2018, 11:05
There are two types of dry mounting presses: hard bed presses that have a hard metal platen on the top and the bottom, this type of press mounts under heat and pressure in the press. An example of this type of press is the Ademco.
The second is a press with a metal top and a foam bottom. For instance a Seal press. This type of press bonds in the press and the best mount is outside the press with a weight placed on the print and mount. Seal made weights for this purpose.
There are also commercial dry mount presses that mounted with heat and vacuum pressure but these are not common for small production jobs.

Any of these types of presses can mount fiber or RC paper to mount board, foam plaques, wood boards, ceramic plaques, metal plates, glass, acrylic, etc. as long as the proper technique for the materials are used as well as the proper bonding agent. That is why Seal, Ademco, Technal and others offered a range of mounting tissues and laminate bonding materials.

the OP is asking about Aluminum which is another set of problems. I have used all the presses you mention, I now have a vacumn press which I hate...

bob carnie
25-Mar-2018, 11:08
I used to mount cotton rag paper to aluminum sheets for the purpose of registering multiple gum bichromate printings. I used Fusion 4000 mounting adhesive. It's available from Talas. The mounting process worked very well, and it was easy. However, I was not able to successfully reheat and remove a print from the aluminum. The aluminum sheet I used was recycled offset printing plates - thin enough to cut with an x-acto knife in a few passes.

Did you do multiple layers??.. I found no problem with two wettings but after the third wetting the print would come off the aluminum in a real ugly way... And like you I was never able to get the print off in a workable manner.

Bob Salomon
25-Mar-2018, 11:16
the OP is asking about Aluminum which is another set of problems. I have used all the presses you mention, I now have a vacumn press which I hate...

I have used Ademco to mount to aluminum.

DannyTreacy
25-Mar-2018, 13:24
Good to hear that I should be able to mount onto aluminum. I guess what I need to do is try it out and compare the results from museum board mounting and aluminum mounting, I’ve always preferred the flatness of images mounted onto aluminum compared to board.

Drew Wiley
27-Mar-2018, 15:21
I've done relatively large custom laminations of 2-ply museum board to thick aluminum composite panel using MT5, which needs at least 250F.

Drew Wiley
27-Mar-2018, 15:22
Bob - isn't that Ademco press the same thing the Mafia uses to flatten cars with bodies in them?

Bob Salomon
27-Mar-2018, 15:35
Bob - isn't that Ademco press the same thing the Mafia uses to flatten cars with bodies in them?

The large one, 4x8í

I use to have to travel, by air, with the 11x14Ē one as a sales sample. You should have seen the looks when that came down the luggage shut, actually more like rolled down it!

DannyTreacy
29-Mar-2018, 09:13
I’m looking at an Ademco Press on eBay. It only has an ‘on/off switch ‘ and so the heat cannot be controlled I guess. Does that mean that it would only be good for specific mounting applications??

Thanks!

Bob Salomon
29-Mar-2018, 09:31
Iím looking at an Ademco Press on eBay. It only has an Ďon/off switch Ď and so the heat cannot be controlled I guess. Does that mean that it would only be good for specific mounting applications??

Thanks!

Give us a link to that press.

DannyTreacy
29-Mar-2018, 09:42
Give us a link to that press.

Here’s the item number 202266061424 hope that is enough info, thanks!

Bob Salomon
29-Mar-2018, 09:53
Hereís the item number 202266061424 hope that is enough info, thanks!

I am not familiar with that version, though I do think that it does have a temperature control knob visible in one picture. But it is not what would work well. Here is the one that will, the Ademco 2226:

http://www.photographictechniques.com/press

DannyTreacy
29-Mar-2018, 10:37
Hi Bob,

Thanks for the info that's great to know, saved me some serious £££, I'm also looking at this press, it's made by Wooler and appears to have a low and high temp switch, but no tacking iron, think it would be suitable?? Thanks!!

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=wooler+dry+mounting+press&safe=off&client=firefox-b-ab&dcr=0&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=4kEUyPZ-GlsbrM%253A%252CpyZSG7qRy6iFBM%252C_&usg=__XElm25zB0cO-1t49FHv-hAx-rWo%3D&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjQ3rjWiJLaAhVRSsAKHePBC8wQ9QEINTAC#imgrc=4kEUyPZ-GlsbrM:

Bob Salomon
29-Mar-2018, 11:44
Hi Bob,

Thanks for the info that's great to know, saved me some serious £££, I'm also looking at this press, it's made by Wooler and appears to have a low and high temp switch, but no tacking iron, think it would be suitable?? Thanks!!

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=wooler+dry+mounting+press&safe=off&client=firefox-b-ab&dcr=0&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=4kEUyPZ-GlsbrM%253A%252CpyZSG7qRy6iFBM%252C_&usg=__XElm25zB0cO-1t49FHv-hAx-rWo%3D&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjQ3rjWiJLaAhVRSsAKHePBC8wQ9QEINTAC#imgrc=4kEUyPZ-GlsbrM:

It looks like it might be but they are not sold on this side and I have never seen one.
Finding a tacking iron is easy so that is not a problem. Once you are experienced with mounting you would probably not use the tacking iron.

DannyTreacy
29-Mar-2018, 11:47
Thanks Bob, sent you a pm, really appreciate your feedback on this!!

Bob Salomon
29-Mar-2018, 11:51
Thanks Bob, sent you a pm, really appreciate your feedback on this!!

No problem. BTW, if you get a tacking iron look for ones that have a coated foot rather then just a metal foot. Also, some tacking irons have a pivoting foot, some donít. I have used both and prefer the pivoting foot. Especially since it has a smaller hot area then the others. I always managed to hit my hand against the larger ones and it can hurt!

DannyTreacy
29-Mar-2018, 12:33
Ok, thanks again for the info.

Drew Wiley
29-Mar-2018, 20:06
Teflon-coated tacking irons are available from cabinet shop suppliers. They're used for shelf edging tape as well as drymounting.

robshepherd
29-Mar-2018, 20:12
Yes, I did multiple layers. Sometimes as many as six printings. I never had a print come off during wet processing. And I was never able to satisfactorily remove a finished print from the aluminum even when using the highest setting on the dry mount press. In fact, the aluminum would get too hot to even handle, but the fusion 4000 maintained a strong bond. It was a pretty bad experience.

jwallace68
29-May-2018, 20:10
Possible, but not the best choice with regard to conservation concerns. Aluminum is very reactive, especially with oxygen. Anodized aluminum would be ideal, albeit expensive.

Drew Wiley
2-Jun-2018, 15:27
Anodizing is cheap if you live in an industrial area where it is routine. But an adhesive is going to protect the surface from oxygen anyway, and generally atmospheric salts must be involved too, and at a level serious enough to threaten the print itself far more than the aluminum! Take it from someone who lives on the coast.