Is it possible to heat mount fibre prints onto aluminium?

[DannyTreacy]

Hi,

I’ve been looking on YouTube for examples of this but can’t see any, has anyone tried heat mounting fibre based prints on aluminium as oppose to mount board?

Thanks.

[j.e.simmons]

40+ years ago I used dry mount tissue to mount a fiber print to aluminum foil. My idea was to test it for permanence. I still have the print. So, the tissue will stick to aluminum. My concern would be whether the press heats enough for thicker aluminum, and whether the mass of the aluminum would hold heat too long. I’d have to test.

[Denny]

It's certainly possible to mount paper to aluminum, do a search for Irving Penn prints mounted to aluminum, he was using relatively heavy sheets of aluminum. I routinely mount on aluminum for registering multiple exposures. I use Dry Lam Colortac dry mount tissue. I'm mounting heavy weight paper, watercolor weight, to aluminum flashing, and I'm using temperatures comparable to those used in normal drymounting.

[bob carnie]

I have mounted fiber prints to aluminum.. Flo Bond tissue is used , I hate doing it ..

[DannyTreacy]

Thanks for the replies, I'll certainly look at Penn's work on aluminum. In the past I've had large scale (215cm x 180cm) C-41 prints mounted on aluminum by professional mounters but as I'm planning on doing a series of 10" x 8" direct b&w contacts I thought I'd have a go at doing it myself and save money in the long run.

Can I ask about the procedure for doing it, is it the same setup for when mounting onto board? How are the edges of the print and the aluminum married up?

Bob, why do you hate doing it?

Thanks all!

[bob carnie]

The flow bond is very flimsy, and is tricky to work with.. Its the only material that I would recommend for hot application.... cold application will not work with silver prints.. but you are doing small prints, why the need to mount- is there a presentation method you see valuable ??

Getting the correct temp is critical, pressure and did I mention the cost of the material...

Mounting to aluminum is something I have done a lot for Pt Pd and gum prints that require many coatings and of course this means paper shrinkage for aluminum.

[Denny]

I have to agree with Bob, it isn't fun. But the Dry Lam Colortac tissue is pretty easy to work with (at least it isn't flimsy). I find I get the best results by leaving the mounted paper in the press while it cools off, so it's OK for one-at-a-time mounting, not as useful for high volume production work. I'm not particular about precise alignment of the sheet onto the aluminum, but I imagine you could use the same techniques as you would use mounting to museum board.

[DannyTreacy]

cold application will not work with silver prints.. but you are doing small prints, why the need to mount- is there a presentation method you see valuable ??

Yes I intend to float mount the images within a larger frame, which would be glazed. Does that make sense ?

[Denny]

You might think about drymounting the prints to museum board and then using archival double-sided tape to attach the museum board to aluminum. Dry mounting to museum board is a lot easier than aluminum, and using archival tape would make it easier to align the print on the aluminum.

[robshepherd]

I used to mount cotton rag paper to aluminum sheets for the purpose of registering multiple gum bichromate printings. I used Fusion 4000 mounting adhesive. It's available from Talas. The mounting process worked very well, and it was easy. However, I was not able to successfully reheat and remove a print from the aluminum. The aluminum sheet I used was recycled offset printing plates - thin enough to cut with an x-acto knife in a few passes.

[Bob Salomon]

I have to agree with Bob, it isn't fun. But the Dry Lam Colortac tissue is pretty easy to work with (at least it isn't flimsy). I find I get the best results by leaving the mounted paper in the press while it cools off, so it's OK for one-at-a-time mounting, not as useful for high volume production work. I'm not particular about precise alignment of the sheet onto the aluminum, but I imagine you could use the same techniques as you would use mounting to museum board.

There are two types of dry mounting presses: hard bed presses that have a hard metal platen on the top and the bottom, this type of press mounts under heat and pressure in the press. An example of this type of press is the Ademco.
The second is a press with a metal top and a foam bottom. For instance a Seal press. This type of press bonds in the press and the best mount is outside the press with a weight placed on the print and mount. Seal made weights for this purpose.
There are also commercial dry mount presses that mounted with heat and vacuum pressure but these are not common for small production jobs.

Any of these types of presses can mount fiber or RC paper to mount board, foam plaques, wood boards, ceramic plaques, metal plates, glass, acrylic, etc. as long as the proper technique for the materials are used as well as the proper bonding agent. That is why Seal, Ademco, Technal and others offered a range of mounting tissues and laminate bonding materials.

[bob carnie]

There are two types of dry mounting presses: hard bed presses that have a hard metal platen on the top and the bottom, this type of press mounts under heat and pressure in the press. An example of this type of press is the Ademco.
The second is a press with a metal top and a foam bottom. For instance a Seal press. This type of press bonds in the press and the best mount is outside the press with a weight placed on the print and mount. Seal made weights for this purpose.
There are also commercial dry mount presses that mounted with heat and vacuum pressure but these are not common for small production jobs.

Any of these types of presses can mount fiber or RC paper to mount board, foam plaques, wood boards, ceramic plaques, metal plates, glass, acrylic, etc. as long as the proper technique for the materials are used as well as the proper bonding agent. That is why Seal, Ademco, Technal and others offered a range of mounting tissues and laminate bonding materials.

the OP is asking about Aluminum which is another set of problems. I have used all the presses you mention, I now have a vacumn press which I hate...

[bob carnie]

I used to mount cotton rag paper to aluminum sheets for the purpose of registering multiple gum bichromate printings. I used Fusion 4000 mounting adhesive. It's available from Talas. The mounting process worked very well, and it was easy. However, I was not able to successfully reheat and remove a print from the aluminum. The aluminum sheet I used was recycled offset printing plates - thin enough to cut with an x-acto knife in a few passes.

Did you do multiple layers??.. I found no problem with two wettings but after the third wetting the print would come off the aluminum in a real ugly way... And like you I was never able to get the print off in a workable manner.

[Bob Salomon]

the OP is asking about Aluminum which is another set of problems. I have used all the presses you mention, I now have a vacumn press which I hate...

I have used Ademco to mount to aluminum.

[DannyTreacy]

Good to hear that I should be able to mount onto aluminum. I guess what I need to do is try it out and compare the results from museum board mounting and aluminum mounting, I’ve always preferred the flatness of images mounted onto aluminum compared to board.

[Drew Wiley]

I've done relatively large custom laminations of 2-ply museum board to thick aluminum composite panel using MT5, which needs at least 250F.

[Drew Wiley]

Bob - isn't that Ademco press the same thing the Mafia uses to flatten cars with bodies in them?

[Bob Salomon]

Bob - isn't that Ademco press the same thing the Mafia uses to flatten cars with bodies in them?

The large one, 4x8’

I use to have to travel, by air, with the 11x14” one as a sales sample. You should have seen the looks when that came down the luggage shut, actually more like rolled down it!

[DannyTreacy]

I’m looking at an Ademco Press on eBay. It only has an ‘on/off switch ‘ and so the heat cannot be controlled I guess. Does that mean that it would only be good for specific mounting applications??

Thanks!

[Bob Salomon]

I’m looking at an Ademco Press on eBay. It only has an ‘on/off switch ‘ and so the heat cannot be controlled I guess. Does that mean that it would only be good for specific mounting applications??

Thanks!

Give us a link to that press.

[DannyTreacy]

Give us a link to that press.

Here’s the item number 202266061424 hope that is enough info, thanks!

[Bob Salomon]

Here’s the item number 202266061424 hope that is enough info, thanks!

I am not familiar with that version, though I do think that it does have a temperature control knob visible in one picture. But it is not what would work well. Here is the one that will, the Ademco 2226:

http://www.photographictechniques.com/press

[DannyTreacy]

Hi Bob,

Thanks for the info that's great to know, saved me some serious £££, I'm also looking at this press, it's made by Wooler and appears to have a low and high temp switch, but no tacking iron, think it would be suitable?? Thanks!!

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=wooler+dry+mounting+press&safe=off&client=firefox-b-ab&dcr=0&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=4kEUyPZ-GlsbrM%253A%252CpyZSG7qRy6iFBM%252C_&usg=__XElm25zB0cO-1t49FHv-hAx-rWo%3D&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjQ3rjWiJLaAhVRSsAKHePBC8wQ9QEINTAC#imgrc=4kEUyPZ-GlsbrM:

[Bob Salomon]

Hi Bob,

Thanks for the info that's great to know, saved me some serious £££, I'm also looking at this press, it's made by Wooler and appears to have a low and high temp switch, but no tacking iron, think it would be suitable?? Thanks!!

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=wooler+dry+mounting+press&safe=off&client=firefox-b-ab&dcr=0&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=4kEUyPZ-GlsbrM%253A%252CpyZSG7qRy6iFBM%252C_&usg=__XElm25zB0cO-1t49FHv-hAx-rWo%3D&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjQ3rjWiJLaAhVRSsAKHePBC8wQ9QEINTAC#imgrc=4kEUyPZ-GlsbrM:

It looks like it might be but they are not sold on this side and I have never seen one.
Finding a tacking iron is easy so that is not a problem. Once you are experienced with mounting you would probably not use the tacking iron.

[DannyTreacy]

Thanks Bob, sent you a pm, really appreciate your feedback on this!!

[Bob Salomon]

Thanks Bob, sent you a pm, really appreciate your feedback on this!!

No problem. BTW, if you get a tacking iron look for ones that have a coated foot rather then just a metal foot. Also, some tacking irons have a pivoting foot, some don’t. I have used both and prefer the pivoting foot. Especially since it has a smaller hot area then the others. I always managed to hit my hand against the larger ones and it can hurt!

[DannyTreacy]

Ok, thanks again for the info.

[Drew Wiley]

Teflon-coated tacking irons are available from cabinet shop suppliers. They're used for shelf edging tape as well as drymounting.

[robshepherd]

Yes, I did multiple layers. Sometimes as many as six printings. I never had a print come off during wet processing. And I was never able to satisfactorily remove a finished print from the aluminum even when using the highest setting on the dry mount press. In fact, the aluminum would get too hot to even handle, but the fusion 4000 maintained a strong bond. It was a pretty bad experience.

[Drew Wiley]

Anodizing is cheap if you live in an industrial area where it is routine. But an adhesive is going to protect the surface from oxygen anyway, and generally atmospheric salts must be involved too, and at a level serious enough to threaten the print itself far more than the aluminum! Take it from someone who lives on the coast.

[Drew Wiley]

What was that all about ? Somebody had to think about it for two and a half years? First time I've ever heard the word, chutzpah. Some kind of insult, I guess. In any event, museum display personnel and big pro picture framing houses came to me for informed advice for several decades, which was surely not pickled chutney. I'm not trying to win anything. I was paid for that kind of thing. The kind of aluminum plate sold for picture mounting is anodized to begin with, or otherwise permanently coated; it's not raw aluminum, which I assume anyone seriously trained in conservation would already know. My main objection to aluminum is that it is very thermally conductive, which means it should be additionally backed with something like foamboard just for insulation sake with respect to diurnal or seasonal temperature shifts.

[Chester McCheeserton]

I worked at a lab that mounted silver gelatin prints to aluminum on a regular basis. Too many details to condense into a forum post like this but here's a couple basic points.

The lab used a large 40 x 60 heat press. The mounting tissue was colormount, with release tissue used on top. Prints were face up in the press.

The aluminum was cut to size by a metal shop with a giant chop cutter. It came in 2 thicknesses, 1/16 and 1/8, the lab used the thinner grade for smaller works the 1/8 for larger.

The aluminum had to be scored or "roughed up" by hand using brillo type pads in a circular motion to help with the adhesion. As soon as the mounted printed came out of the press, they were immediately put under weights while cooling - this was a crucial part of the process. The prints were measured to be just a fraction larger then the metal, once cooled, a razor blade held vertically was used to trim the print flush to the edge.

After I left the lab I used to do this myself for a while using a standard seal heat press. It works, but is a lot of work, and I don't think it's worth it. Most professional mounters use a cold press method onto dibond now.
I think the concerns about the edge of the print being exposed to the elements if not put in a frame, and peeling up are valid– have seen it happen occasionally. Now when I mount myself, which is rare, I use 8 ply museum board and mount a print of an identical substrate onto the back to prevent warping - the mounted print is then put into a frame.