lensboards with offset holes?

[Havoc]

I received my Fuji 250/6.3 yesterday and it is set on one of those offset lensboards. The lens is fixed below the middle of the board. It is a Nikon board, but this fits great in my Wista SP45.

Now I do not understand why they would do such a thing. If I look at the optical axis it goes through the middle of the board, middle of the bellows and so on to the middle of the film. So putting the lens what looks like 20mm lowers means I have to use always shift, even if I don't need any. And if I need shift, then it is always up (when photographing buildings) and thus with such I board I run out of shift even faster than my camera can provide. The 135 came also on such a board but I had one with a central hole spare so I could change it. Now I have to look for a suitable board and they are not that easy to find around here.

So what is the reasoning behind it? I cannot find a good reason.

[Michael Clark]

There are some camera's made that have very little fall (drop) of the front standard, with the hole lower on the board would give just that much more fall. Linhof Techna is one of them, and Technica boards are the most common.

[Leigh]

The offset design is a function of the original camera with which it was used.
That optical axis was offset, requiring an offset of the lens mounting hole.

Further stupidity lies in the fact that the board is not symmetrical.
You cannot just mount it upside down to move the offset above the front standard center.

I think it was an absolutely stupid design... but nobody asked me.

- Leigh

[Havoc]

OK, so this is a board that does fit the Wista but was not intended to be used with a Wista. So I'll have to go hunting for another lens board.

Yes Leigh, I agree, stupid design.

[malexand]

I've got a similar offset board on my homebrew 4x5 for my 90mm - the bellows are compressed enough at inf that they don't allow for much movement. Depending on which of the the 4 orientations I install the board, I get either front rise/fall or Rt/Lf shift.

[Michael Clark]

OK, so this is a board that does fit the Wista but was not intended to be used with a Wista. So I'll have to go hunting for another lens board.

Yes Leigh, I agree, stupid design.

The Wista used the same design as the Tech board you have, a very popular design. You can still use, it just have to use a little rise with it to center the lens.There is after market Tech boards that have the hole centered.

[Jac@stafford.net]

The Wista used the same design as the Tech board you have, a very popular design. You can still use, it just have to use a little rise with it to center the lens.There is after market Tech boards that have the hole centered.

I am glad you brought that up, Michael. No need to buy another board with centered hole.

FWIW, the Super Technika has plenty of front drop. Its offset is to accommodate the front mechanisms. It is not stupid considering the overall design.

So, OP - to emphasize - you do not need a new board.
Best of luck, enjoy!

[Michael Clark]

Thanks Jac.

[AA+]

I have a 5x7 wood Canham, with Canham's lens boards which will go in both rightside and upside down. With my smaller diameter lenses, I have deliberately placed the holes off-center to benefit me on my scenic pictures, most of which are near-far compositions. The offset is sufficiently small that I can center my lens if this is required. To me this offset is advantageous.
Best wishes --- Allen

[Leigh]

Depending on which of the the 4 orientations I install the board, I get either front rise/fall or Rt/Lf shift.
That does not work with a properly designed front standard. Those have bevels on the two lower corners to match the lensboard, preventing alternate installation orientation.

- Leigh

[Leigh]

It is not stupid considering the overall design.Jac, you missed the point...

It's the overall design that's stupid, requiring an offset lensboard.

- Leigh

[Jac@stafford.net]

Jac, you missed the point...

It's the overall design that's stupid, requiring an offset lensboard.

- Leigh

I guess that points to another good reason I'm not a view camera designer.
But I still appreciate my Super Technika.
Thanks for the correction, Leigh.

[Jim Andrada]

What's stupid about the overall design? In order to get longer extension they added an additional track section which made the total height of the two tracks higher and they offset the lensboard opening to accommodate this without making the whole camera bigger. All things considered I think the design of the camera system is pretty good.

If I were going to carp about something it would be the two tabs you have to press simultaneously to extend the uppr=er track section.

[Doremus Scudder]

Havoc,

Are you sure that the offset board is not correct for your Wista? I own three Wista 4x5 cameras and the Technika-style offset board is the correct one for all three in order to optically center the lens on the film when the camera is in "zero" position. If you're lucky, Bob Salomon will chime in here with the definitive answer; he was the Wista rep for many years and knows their products inside and out.

Best,

Doremus

[Jim Jones]

That does not work with a properly designed front standard. Those have bevels on the two lower corners to match the lensboard, preventing alternate installation orientation.

- Leigh

The once standard lens board of the properly designed front standard on my Graphic View II can be oriented in four ways. It is also easy to fabricate or improvise. It may be Linhof that erred in their "improvement."

[Leigh]

The once standard lens board of the properly designed front standard on my Graphic View II can be oriented in four ways. It is also easy to fabricate or improvise. It may be Linhof that erred in their "improvement."Hi Jim,

My comment was specifically about the Linhof Technika lensboard with the bevels on the lower corners.
I thought that was the subject of this thread. I should have been more specific.

- Leigh

[Jim Jones]

I've offset lenses on the old 4" square lens boards to increase versatility on press cameras. Whatever gets the job done is the way to go.

[Havoc]

Havoc,

Are you sure that the offset board is not correct for your Wista? I own three Wista 4x5 cameras and the Technika-style offset board is the correct one for all three in order to optically center the lens on the film when the camera is in "zero" position. If you're lucky, Bob Salomon will chime in here with the definitive answer; he was the Wista rep for many years and knows their products inside and out.

Best,

Doremus

I checked and from what I see and as far as I can measure, a board with a center hole places the lens at the center of the film. I have my 125mm mounted on a center hole board and it comes nicely at the center of the back frame and the GG sits at the center of the detachable rotating back which is square.

But it can be that the offset hole is standard. Because when I checked this, the front standard was all the way down and the camera was set up all square. So with a centered hole you cannot dial in any down shift, only up. In order to have down shift with a centered lensboard, you need to drop the bed. So yes, probably the offset lensboard is standard so you can have at least the offset as down shift without dropping the bed.

[GG12]

That makes sense, finally. I’ve disliked offset lens boards forever, preferring my coffee straight up. But this idea of providing built-in drop (otherwise not readily available) does make some sense, even if it requires brain cells to remember it.

[Doremus Scudder]

I checked and from what I see and as far as I can measure, a board with a center hole places the lens at the center of the film. I have my 125mm mounted on a center hole board and it comes nicely at the center of the back frame and the GG sits at the center of the detachable rotating back which is square.

But it can be that the offset hole is standard. Because when I checked this, the front standard was all the way down and the camera was set up all square. So with a centered hole you cannot dial in any down shift, only up. In order to have down shift with a centered lensboard, you need to drop the bed. So yes, probably the offset lensboard is standard so you can have at least the offset as down shift without dropping the bed.

There should be reference marks (dots or something) on the front standard to show where "zero" position is (if not detents; I'm not familiar with your particular model). This should place the front standard somewhere in the middle of the rise/fall range. With the front standard "all the way down," you are almost certainly not in "zero" position and have no possibility for front fall. I'll bet that the offset hole is what centers the lens on the film when you really get the front in zero position.

That said, I have a couple of lenses mounted on boards with centered holes just so I can get a bit more front rise from them; I use fall only very rarely.

Best,

Doremus

[Pere Casals]

So what is the reasoning behind it? I cannot find a good reason.

IMHO the advantage of an offset hole is that you get greater fall movement, while rise may have less by design limitations. Making a compact field camera is a challenge if one wants to conserve as much versatility as possible.

If it was a monorail then you can make a rise in the back to get the same than with a big fall in the front, but if a field camera doesn't have the rise in the back then you can use that offset in the lensboard, so you can make a big fall without adding weight and complications to a field design. This is smart.

[Bob Salomon]

IMHO the advantage of an offset hole is that you get greater fall movement, while rise may have less by design limitations. Making a compact field camera is a challenge if one wants to conserve as much versatility as possible.

If it was a monorail then you can make a rise in the back to get the same than with a big fall in the front, but if a field camera doesn't have the rise in the back then you can use that offset in the lensboard, so you can make a big fall without adding weight and complications to a field design. This is smart.
But a Technika does have back rise, fall and shift!

[Pere Casals]

But aa Technika does have back rise, fall and shift!

Yes... a Technika is a Technika...

[Alan Gales]

Here you go!

http://www.badgergraphic.com/opencart/index.php?route=product/category&path=2_82_165

Scroll down to the center drilled Technika style boards. $30 a pop for new boards in Copal 0, 1 or 3. Or just pick up a used board. I'm sure you can sell your old board on the forum here.

[Doremus Scudder]

The point is, when the camera is designed for a lensboard with an offset hole, you usually want to use a lensboard with an offset hole in order to get the full range of movements available on the front standard. With a centered hole, as the OP notes, there is no more allowance for fall. While lens fall is something I don't use that much, it does come in handy at times. Of course, there are work-arounds for this and one can use the point-and-tilt technique to achieve effective lens fall if needed.

I've mounted a couple of lenses that I use primarily for cityscapes and outdoor architectural shots on center-hole boards just to make a bit of extra rise available without resorting to more complicated techniques for my field cameras designed for off-center boards. The best solution would be if one could modify the Technika-style boards to allow them to be mounted upside-down... Maybe I'll try that someday.

However, if one wants to use the Technika or any of the other cameras designed to take offset-hole boards as they were intended, then one should get a lensboard with an offset hole. I believe the OP's Wista falls in this category. A lensboard with an offset hole is not some kind of anomaly or design flaw or mismatch... It's OEM standard.

Best,

Doremus