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lis boa
18-Mar-2018, 17:51
Hello all

Thinking of this lens for 4x5. I know it was designed for 6x9 and is often found on the Linhof Technika IV but i hear from the seller that s/he has been using it on 4X5. Can anyone confirm?

Thanks
mainoo

Jason Greenberg Motamedi
18-Mar-2018, 18:06
No, that lens will not cover 4x5

Bob Salomon
18-Mar-2018, 18:20
You can use it on a 45 camera as long as you donít need it to cover a 45 piece of film. But for roll film, fine.

lis boa
18-Mar-2018, 18:34
Thanks to both of you for responding.

My intention is to use it wide open for portraits on 4x5 film. Does the fact that I don't need it at infinity help? I was unable to find any info on its image circle - does anyone know?

Thanks again

Bob Salomon
18-Mar-2018, 19:06
Thanks to both of you for responding.

My intention is to use it wide open for portraits on 4x5 film. Does the fact that I don't need it at infinity help? I was unable to find any info on its image circle - does anyone know?

Thanks again

Closer then infinity helps but using it wide open doesnít. In either case it wonít cover 45 and a 105 on 45 is way too short for portraiture unless you want large noses, large foreheads, large shoulders, etc..

lis boa
19-Mar-2018, 11:06
Closer then infinity helps but using it wide open doesn’t. In either case it won’t cover 45 and a 105 on 45 is way too short for portraiture unless you want large noses, large foreheads, large shoulders, etc..

Not a huge fan of large foreheads and shoulders though they do have a certain something to them. but that's not all that's to be had from wide angle portraits (https://www.google.pt/search?dcr=0&biw=1439&bih=732&tbm=isch&sa=1&ei=Fp2vWp-IKISHU46knZgH&q=wide+angle+portraits&oq=wide+angle+portraits&gs_l=psy-ab.3...24185685.24190770.0.24191410.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0..0.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..0.0.0....0.UcgQ2rOre2s)

neilt3
19-Mar-2018, 12:51
Thanks to both of you for responding.

My intention is to use it wide open for portraits on 4x5 film. Does the fact that I don't need it at infinity help? I was unable to find any info on its image circle - does anyone know?

Thanks again

All the information you need is on Schneider's website .
For that lens , see here ; https://www.schneideroptics.com/info/vintage_lens_data/large_format_lenses/xenar/data/4,5-105mm.html

Coverage aside , 105mm is quite a wide angle of view for potrait's unless there enviromental potraits .

If your looking for a slightly wider lens than classic type potraits ( head & shoulder type ) , wouldn't a 150mm lens suit you better ?
Cheap enough and plenty to go for . Coverage won't be an issue either .

lis boa
19-Mar-2018, 13:13
All the information you need is on Schneider's website .
For that lens , see here ; https://www.schneideroptics.com/info/vintage_lens_data/large_format_lenses/xenar/data/4,5-105mm.html

Coverage aside , 105mm is quite a wide angle of view for potrait's unless there enviromental potraits .

If your looking for a slightly wider lens than classic type potraits ( head & shoulder type ) , wouldn't a 150mm lens suit you better ?
Cheap enough and plenty to go for . Coverage won't be an issue either .

Thanks for responding. The lens i'm talking about is a 3.5, not 4.5 and isn't listed anywhere that i have seen.
I also have a 150 mm. But, yes, i like environmental portraits and feel you can make interesting (nay, unique) portraits using wide angle lenses.
Thanks again.

Dan Fromm
19-Mar-2018, 13:58
You haven't looked very hard and you haven't used the list described here: http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?138978-Where-to-look-for-information-on-LF-(mainly)-lenses

Since you can't feed yourself, the information you want is here: https://www.schneideroptics.com/info/vintage_lens_data/large_format_lenses/xenar/data/3,5-100mm.html

neilt3
19-Mar-2018, 15:24
Thanks for responding. The lens i'm talking about is a 3.5, not 4.5 and isn't listed anywhere that i have seen.
I also have a 150 mm. But, yes, i like environmental portraits and feel you can make interesting (nay, unique) portraits using wide angle lenses.
Thanks again.

My mistake , I didn't spot the different aperture .
It's strange that is missing from this list ( https://www.schneideroptics.com/info/vintage_lens_data/large_format_lenses/xenar/ ) at Schneider .

I did a search on ebay and there's plenty of the lens your asking about on there .
Strange that there's not much information of it on the net .
Seems to of also been available with an M42 mount for 35mm , probably for use on bellows as there seems to be refrances on using it for macro .

Still seems to be of use for just 6x9cm though , maybe an earlier version of the f/4.5 and they just restricted the aperture to improve I.Q leaving the same coverage ?

Would 135mm be to long for you ?
I tend to use my Xenar 135mm f/4.7 on a Crown Graphic and like the results . The stated recomended coverage is for 90x120mm but even with a bit of forward tilt coverage seems fine . The lens is stopped down a bit as I tend to shoot landscape more .
I have quite a few lenses to choose from but this one suits a lot of what I do .

neilt3
19-Mar-2018, 15:34
You haven't looked very hard and you haven't used the list described here: http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?138978-Where-to-look-for-information-on-LF-(mainly)-lenses

Since you can't feed yourself, the information you want is here: https://www.schneideroptics.com/info/vintage_lens_data/large_format_lenses/xenar/data/3,5-100mm.html

O.P's asking about a 105mm lens , not the 100mm you've linked to.
The one I linked to was the 105mm f/4.5 though , not the 105mm f/3.5 that the O.P asked about .

The 105mm f/3.5 the O.P isn't a typo , do a search on ebay and you'll see them for sale .
Intended for 6x9cm coverage though , not 5"x4" .

Doesn't seem to be much information out there on this lens , regardless of who's doing the feeding of the information ( right or wrong ) .

Jason Greenberg Motamedi
19-Mar-2018, 16:21
Schneider claimed that the 10.5cm f3.5 Xenar had a 4 5/16" (~110mm) "circle of sharp definition at small stop," barely enough for 2x3, let alone 4x5.

176186

From http://www.cameraeccentric.com/html/info/schneider_2.html

Dan Fromm
19-Mar-2018, 16:36
Thanks for the correction.

This link, not in the list, http://www.cameraeccentric.com/html/info/linhof_3.html reports a 105/3.5 Xenar on the 2x3 Super Technika. The VM lists a variety of f/3.5 Xenars starting before WW II, says the 105 was the last to be discontinued. The 105s were all for 2x3, not 4x5.

Jason, I think your page from Cameraeccentric is from a pre-WW II catalog. I strongly suspect, can't prove 'cos I don't have Thiele's Schneider book, that the 105/3.5 Xenars sold on 2x3 Technikas were later designs with slightly greater coverage.

ottluuk
20-Mar-2018, 02:42
A major source of confusion seems to be that these vintage Xenars usually don't have a visually distinctive limit to their usable image circle. The image goes progressively more soft, then fuzzy and distorted as you move further from the center – before it goes totally dark. You may be able to get a usable image well beyond the manufacturer's stated coverage – just depends on your definition of 'usable'.

If you play within Schneider's claimed specs, you'll get sharp, straight negatives that can stand a fair amount of enlargement. Outside those guidelines, it's better to do your own experiments (but don't expect a free lunch).

For 4x5, the already mentioned 135/4.7 Xenar works well enough with modest movements. Shorter than that really needs a wide angle design IMHO.

lis boa
20-Mar-2018, 06:51
You haven't looked very hard and you haven't used the list described here: http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?138978-Where-to-look-for-information-on-LF-(mainly)-lenses

Since you can't feed yourself, the information you want is here: https://www.schneideroptics.com/info/vintage_lens_data/large_format_lenses/xenar/data/3,5-100mm.html

It would appear that you can't feed me either. The lens i referred to was a 105mm 3.5 but I see you've been corrected already.

lis boa
20-Mar-2018, 07:04
Thanks to all - I let it go as it clearly wasn't designed for 4x5. Though i knew that already I was happy to use it for portraits as long as it was a case of fading and softness at the edges rather than (black) vignetting. i let it go in the end. Thanks for your responses.

lis boa
20-Mar-2018, 07:13
My mistake , I didn't spot the different aperture .
It's strange that is missing from this list ( https://www.schneideroptics.com/info/vintage_lens_data/large_format_lenses/xenar/ ) at Schneider .

I did a search on ebay and there's plenty of the lens your asking about on there .
Strange that there's not much information of it on the net .
Seems to of also been available with an M42 mount for 35mm , probably for use on bellows as there seems to be refrances on using it for macro .

Still seems to be of use for just 6x9cm though , maybe an earlier version of the f/4.5 and they just restricted the aperture to improve I.Q leaving the same coverage ?

Would 135mm be to long for you ?
I tend to use my Xenar 135mm f/4.7 on a Crown Graphic and like the results . The stated recomended coverage is for 90x120mm but even with a bit of forward tilt coverage seems fine . The lens is stopped down a bit as I tend to shoot landscape more .
I have quite a few lenses to choose from but this one suits a lot of what I do .

Thanks a lot for your response. I shoot a lot of environmental portraits and i occasionally find things a bit tight and then need to reach for a wider lens. I already have a 135 6.3 and a 150 3.5. I was also attracted by the maximum aperture. I have found it rather difficult to see the GG at the small apertures on some lenses. I am now looking for a 135 3.5 for low light shooting.

Thanks again

Mark Sampson
20-Mar-2018, 09:16
lis boa, you might look up the work of Arnold Newman. He is generally credited with introducing the 'environmental portrait' and often used wide-angle lenses with great success. He did talk about technique some times- I don't have a reference here, but I believe that he often used a 90mm lens on 4x5.

lis boa
20-Mar-2018, 11:15
lis boa, you might look up the work of Arnold Newman. He is generally credited with introducing the 'environmental portrait' and often used wide-angle lenses with great success. He did talk about technique some times- I don't have a reference here, but I believe that he often used a 90mm lens on 4x5.

Thank you very much for the pointer. Exemplary wide angle portrait work. I think it is a challenging genre and his execution shows what striking portraits are possible -he even uses distortion effectively in some of his photos. Thanks again.

Corran
20-Mar-2018, 11:24
Newman's portrait of Stravinsky is one of my favorite portraits ever made. Good point.