View Full Version : Super Angulon 47mm f/5.6 XL not screwing into Copal 0 shutter properly

14-Mar-2018, 22:28
When I screw in the lens' front element into the front of the Copal 0 shutter, it feels like it does not screw in all the way. The width of the barrel seems to be catching and stopping itself from screwing all the way in.

Additionally, whenever the front element is tightly screwed in, there is a pressure placed by the barrel along the front guard of the shutter, preventing the shutterspeed ring from being moved.

Now, it appears to me that there is an interstitial piece that sits between the metal ring that carries the shutterspeed markings, and the lens barrel itself. On pictures I've found online of this particular lens, it looks much more flush with the shutter and the barrel is closer to the shutterspeed markings. I'm wondering if this metal ring that sits between the lens barrel and the shutterspeed ring is removable, or meant to be removed in order to use this lens.

Does anyone have one of these, who would could perhaps explain what is going on?


Pere Casals
15-Mar-2018, 02:12
IMHO it has to screew in perfectly. Take a magnifier and check if the 4 threads have any damage. Clean and lube threads with DuPont Teflon Non-Stick Dry-Film Lubricant. Check with a caliper if the threads allow to reach the mechanical top, and how many tours it should screew. If threads damaged then teflon lube may help, if not you should go to a machine shop.

If all that fails, take a Grip Thread Pitch Gauge to identify the thread types, that have to be matching. If (very rare) not matching someone made custom threads... because a copal 0 is a copal 0...

15-Mar-2018, 05:55
that piece you point to is plastic in some Copal 0s, and pops out with a screwdriver. If it's machined into the shutter, then it's not one of the removable parts. I will look at my 47XL tonight and take pics if that would help?

15-Mar-2018, 08:06
It has notches on the inside of this ring, and if you push them, it will spin independently of the rest of the assembly (although it will make a brutal squeaking noise).

15-Mar-2018, 09:31
That metal ring is what is keeping the shutter together literally. Remove it and you can have access to the shutter innards. What probably happened is someone was fixing the shutter and did not tighten the ring down properly. Take a couple small flathead screwdrivers and try to tighten that metal ring. Don't get it excessively tight or you may not be able to change shutter speeds, but it should be flush enough not to interfere with the lens being screwed in.

15-Mar-2018, 09:50
I've seen Copal shutters on which those rings have wider peripheral widths. I can only assume those were made to perform the functions of improving cosmetic appeal (minimize gap with narrower lens cells) and to help keep dirt out of the gap. That may not be the original shutter, or maybe just not the original locking ring.

After reading posts below, now I'm thinking maybe the shutters I saw had a removable trim ring. I can't remember.

15-Mar-2018, 10:10
Hm, that is troublesome. I suppose that means I would have to purchase another shutter?

Domaz, is it not the internal, silver, ridged ring that holds it together? I watched disassembly videos and it doesn’t appear that the ring I am describing comes off.

Bernice Loui
15-Mar-2018, 10:13
47mm f5.6 Super Angulon XL & Copal# 0 shutter. The front cell has very fine pitch threads that can be very easily cross threaded during assembly. It this happens, the problem is very serious with assured damage to the lens cell's external threads and copal shutter's internal threads.


There is no plastic dress ring on the copal# 0 shutter for the 47mm SAXL, if there is, it is likely the wrong copal# 0 shutter for the 47mmm SAXL, or some one swapped Copal shutters for this set of lens cells. That plastic ring could be removable, check this. Regardless, it should not be there when used with the 47mm SAXL lens cells.

If this is not the original Copal# 0 shutter, the cell spacing might not be correct for this given lens cell set as they are often matched to the original shutter. Might be a problem, might not be a problem, check this.

The screw is a cover plate ring lock screw, it keeps the the lock ring in place.


15-Mar-2018, 10:18
Thanks Bernice. It must be a plastic dress ring. This is not the original shutter. I only had the cells, separate. I have a shutter that is not suited to the 47mm XL. That’s too bad.

I have a Copal 0 press shutter, with no raised front, however it does not fit in the recessed board I need to use to be able to focus with my camera.

Bernice Loui
15-Mar-2018, 10:19
Question is, where did the original Copal# 0 shutter go?

What is the history of this 47mm SAXL in question?


Thanks Bernice. This is almost certainly the case. I have a shutter that is not suited to the 47mm XL. That’s too bad.

15-Mar-2018, 14:31
it should fit, copal #0s of that vintage are basically universal. Post pics with the cell mounted.

15-Mar-2018, 16:18
It was the same one that I received with a 58mm Super Angulon XL. I figured that since they were so close in focal length, and shared a shutter size, the shutter would be interchangeable.

15-Mar-2018, 19:24
they do, and it is. something else is amiss, not the shutter most likely.

16-Mar-2018, 19:27

So there is a significant difference between the barrels, which explains why one does not screw in all the way.

I checked the threads, and they're fine.

I've included a picture of the 47mm screwed into the Copal 0 Press Shutter, to show how flush the cone of the front has to be in order to go in all the way.

Lastly, I tried to remove the front guard ring from the Copal 0, and I realized it has small hooked inserts that fit in an indentation along the outer ring where the shutter speeds are etched. It is also aluminum, not plastic. It still spins freely.

18-Mar-2018, 06:45
Here's what mine looks like.



18-Mar-2018, 12:15
Yeah, Ed, the front guard ring on yours looks slightly different from my own.

18-Mar-2018, 13:47
[... snip good article ...]

If all that fails, take a Grip Thread Pitch Gauge to identify the thread types, that have to be matching. If (very rare) not matching someone made custom threads... because a copal 0 is a copal 0...

Thanks for that, Pere.

It is a good idea for any DIY person to own a good thread gauge and a good caliper. I finally got a Mitutoyo after being admonished by an expert machinist (glennview.com) regarding my sloppy measurements.

Use the instruments to inform yourself, and the rest of us so we can help.

18-Mar-2018, 13:55
Also, remove front or rear element at a time, and open shutter + iris one at a time, to make sure that the elements are not bottoming out in the shutter somewhere (possibly due to a missing spacer, etc)...

Steve K

18-Mar-2018, 14:05
I just took my 47mm SAXL from storage, and the lens clusters fit perfectly. Note that since a drastic mistake in my youth, I only 'snug' lenses into the shutter - light finger tight is all one needs. I wonder of our OP has acquired abused threads or mismatched lens groups. Is the later even possible?

I am sympathetic to this particular thread and hope it never happens to anyone else.

19-Mar-2018, 05:52
it seems like maybe Copal swaps out that front trim ring piece for a different one on shutters designed for the 47XL. I wonder if such a part is available separately? perhaps. Manually machining it might be another more drastic option. But the chances of finding a copal 0 designed for a 47XL without the lens cells seems like a hell of a long shot...

20-Mar-2018, 10:51
Right now Ed, I can’t see any way of popping off that ring without dismantling the whole shutter, which is something I am hesitant to do.