Greetings from snowy Boston

[radu_c]

Hi everyone,

My name is Radu and I live in Boston, MA. I'm really excited to part of this lively community and learn more about large format.
I was a wildlife photographer for several years (Nikon gear, digital whatever) but as the years went by, I noticed being more drawn to nature photos. Turns out that was just a segue into landscape photography, because as soon as I took my first deliberate landscape photo I felt I found my subject (even though it came out looking terrible). Obviously my wildlife centric gear, with long lenses, crop sensor, fast everything was not helping much. Though I bet it was probably the cammo outfit that was making the landscape nervous not my gear :p

After logging numerous hours of Youtube and forums documentation, I was ready to go full frame... but that seemed incremental from what I already had...
Around the same time, I found a gentleman on Clist (former art student) who was selling pretty much all the multigrade paper he had, plus a few darkroom knick knacks. It was a looot of paper. A few days later I stumbled upon a Nikon FE2, broken but I fixed it. Finally the engineering degree paid off ;) Since it's Nikon, everything I was using on digital, like lenses and flashes, were working perfectly fine on the film camera. A day or two later, an enlarger fully equipped, ready to go. In a matter of 10 days or so, darkroom related things were basically landing in my hand one way or another and I took it as a sign.

After running a couple of rolls through the FE2, taking my sweet time metering and composing, then printing in my improvised darkroom, lo and behold I found it! Everything just clicked. I knew I wanted landscape photography on film. Since then, I ditched my digital gear and have never looked back. I actually fell in love with film in the dark(room) :cool:
My full-frame days were short because a retired gentleman gave me a good deal on a Hasselblad kit, which I adapted for landscape (traded some lenses, ditched items I don't need, got filters, etc.). Medium format is my current setup and even though I love the feel, the sounds, the kick of a MF camera, I keep hearing a distant call of an 8x10.

Recent events proved to me that life's too short to keep saying "one day". So here I am; ready to learn, ready to take on a new chapter in my photography journey. I'm currently looking into a field 8x10 and although I understand the basics, I'm not familiar with brand names, camera architectures, etc. That's one side I would need some help from this great community, since it's quite the investment. Money is obviously a factor but I'm aware it'll be over 3-4 grand, so no surprises here. I was doing some research about Chamonix, Shen Hao and Ebony (not in production anymore). They seem to be well regarded cameras but I'd love your input here. I definitely prefer getting something used in decent condition, just like pretty much all gear I ever had, but I can't seem to find any good resources other than the big auction site. Do any of you know someone looking to sell a field view 8x10?

Thanks for letting me be part of this community and look forward to hearing back from you.

Warm regards,
Radu

[Pere Casals]

Hello Radu,

You start a very nice trip, congratulations !!!

I'm a newcomer to LF so I can speak about what you will find soon.

First in LF BW you have the opportunity to develop each sheet separately, with a custom development, this is not a common with rolls, to take advantage of that you may read "Beyond the Zone System" book. With rolls you easily can bracket for uncertain situation, in LF you tend to meter very accurately and (for important shots) to take 2 shots with same exposure so you have a backup, so in general metering and processing requires extra attention, with a failed shot you waste an entire roll, but also a great effort. ...and burning a Velvia 8x10 is like a car crash :) you remember that for years to come.

You can buy your 810 when you find a good opportunity, but I'd advice to also start with a cheap 4x5 monorail, this will prevent you make mistakes in the purchase of expensive 810 gear, you will learn what kind of glass you want, and you will waste less film while learning movements an custom sheet processing, so the 45 pays back those $200, and later you can always sell it.

Also you may easy get a 4x5 enlarger, while an 8x10 enlarger it's something very big, you may end making a 810 DIY enlarger, but this takes time and with 8x10 you have to start with contact prints or scanners, while 4x5 allows you to enlarge from the beginning.

Selecting 810 glass it's not easy, and it's also something very personal, by experimenting with 45 you may learn cheaper what you want from glass, so you will make less mistakes in your 810 acquisitions.

Also a 45 monorail has all movements and unlimited bellows draw, so you may learn what limitations you want to allow in a field camera.

Something it's also true, when you make the mistake to look throught a 810 ground glass you won't able to go back :)

[radu_c]

Thanks Pere,

You hit the nail right in the head. The thing I don't like the most about MF is the roll film. More often than not, I concentrate on getting everything squared up in the first frame or two, but then there are 10 more to go. A fellow "landscaper" knew exactly what I'm talking about so he suggested dedicating a whole roll on a single subject. Maybe bracketing, maybe a different lens, a different perspective, etc. It's a great idea and that's what I'm doing now, but I would love to take that photo on a slide, process it and learn how to make it better the next time.

That was my thinking too, get a 4x5 because enlargers are readily available, significantly cheaper everything and when it's time to move on, move on. But then again, I can always get directly 8x10 with a 4x5 conversion back; 4x5 darkroom work, 8x10 color work with a scanner, photoshop and pigment printer. 4x5 enlargers keep popping up in my area every now and again. A few years back I remember seeing an 8x10 enlarger and holy-moly what a machine that was. Dare I say bigger than the industrial drill press at my dad's machine shop.
I think you raise a great point about starting soft in LF. That's why I wanted your inputs since you already know the ropes. Actually, there is a 4x5 (I think) monorail camera here at work. It's a decorative piece but I definitely remember someone saying to just take it and bring it back when I'm done. Have to look into that, it has a lens on it but no film back.

R.

[AJ Edmondson]

I assume that by "film back" you are referring to film-holders. If that is the case, pick up a couple of used film-holders and give the monorail a spin. Can't hurt and you may find that large format isn't quite what you envisioned - on the other hand you may love it! At worst you will acquire some ideas about how movements work and which movements you consider essential.
Peres' statement about "not being able to go back" is (at least in my experience) very true. For over thirty years I used only 8x10 and loved every minute of it (still do) but at 75 I am also aware of the validity of a comment made by Ansel Adams not too long before his death. He was asked what format camera he preferred and replied " the largest one I can carry." Bottom line is that you have the opportunity to experience the 4x5 at very little cost and, despite the monorails' shortcomings you will soon discover whether LF is something you wish to pursue.
Joel

[radu_c]

That was what I meant, yes. It didn't even register to me until you pointed it out; force of habit from MF.

[jp]

Once you've been here for about a month, you will have access to the sales forums... Lots of great lenses and cameras changing hands. I use both 4x5 and 8x10 and they are very different, and I use 4x5 a great deal more.

If you can do a workshop or outing with other LF photorgraphers, it's a great opportunity to check out the options for cameras as everyone has something different and wants to do something different.

If you're in the market for new, add Canham to your list. They are sometimes available used as well.

[radu_c]

Once you've been here for about a month, you will have access to the sales forums...
Wonderful, I didn't know the forum has a sales section. Will be looking forward for that.

It would be great to go for an outing somewhere within 200mi of Boston. Right now my go-to place are the Dunes in Cape Cod. Not as much for vistas but it's so quiet and peaceful, specially in the winter. Love it.

Is there any particular reason you reach for the 4x5 more? Or it's just about the gear weight...

Radu,

[Nodda Duma]

Hi Radu,

Welcome aboard from New Hampshire!

Are you aware of the upcoming PHSNE camera show in Newton MA?

http://phsne.org/photographica-87-is-coming/

[radu_c]

Hi Radu,

Welcome aboard from New Hampshire!

Are you aware of the upcoming PHSNE camera show in Newton MA?

Greetings! I actually did not. Thanks for the tip, I’ll definitely go check it out.

[jnantz]

Hi Radu,

Welcome aboard from New Hampshire!

Are you aware of the upcoming PHSNE camera show in Newton MA?

http://phsne.org/photographica-87-is-coming/


Greetings! I actually did not. Thanks for the tip, I’ll definitely go check it out.


he radu
great to see you here !

the phsne show is a good one, lots of stuff !
make sure you have enough room to haul it all home :)
i remember the last time i went ( im in RI ) i left with stuff
under both arms ... ;)

john

ps the salt and pepper shaker bridge is open again !!

[Leszek Vogt]

Welcome to LF forum, Radu. Hope you can manage the current weather. Agree with those that 4x5 is easier to deal with, more films and lenses available in this format. I've gone bit wacko with 5x7, but have the 4x5 reducer whenever I need it.

Les

[Winger]

Welcome to LFPF! There are several large format shooters in New England so if you keep an eye on locations under our avatars you might be able to meet up with someone to shoot. I'd also recommend 4x5, but you could make contact prints with your current setup and an 8x10. The PHSNE show is definitely not to be missed.

[radu_c]

i remember the last time i went ( im in RI ) i left with stuff under both arms ... ;)

Haha, ok that makes me feel better to know there's at least one other. At swap-meets I'm like a kid in a candy store.
Maybe we'll meet there. I'll wear a red carnation :D

Oh it feels like the bridge will always be under construction. But at least they opened one way. I'm riding the T over it every day and there are barely any people on the job site...

[photog_ed]

Greetings from the outer suburbs of Boston. I agree that 4x5 is the way to start in large format. This is what I did almost 50 years ago, as a teenager. 8x10 was simply unaffordable then. Even now, everything in 8x10 is several times more costly than 4x5. On the other hand, when I finally started shooting 8x10 a couple of years ago, suddenly 4x5 seemed too small.

[Nodda Duma]

That's why I'm afraid to move up beyond 4x5 :)

[radu_c]

I agree that 4x5 is the way to start in large format. This is what I did almost 50 years ago, as a teenager. 8x10 was simply unaffordable then. Even now, everything in 8x10 is several times more costly than 4x5. On the other hand, when I finally started shooting 8x10 a couple of years ago, suddenly 4x5 seemed too small.

I know it's not in the same ballpark but shooting medium format for a few years got me used to that size; now when I look at my 35mm slides they look like spy films like in the old James Bond movies :cool:
So I can totally see that happening when switching from 4x5 to 8x10.

So then the natural question would be, aside cost, are there any good reasons why I shouldn't just start on 8x10?

[Oren Grad]

So then the natural question would be, aside cost, are there any good reasons why I shouldn't just start on 8x10?

The first LF camera I used on my own was an 8x10, mostly because I wanted to make contact prints and because due to fortunate circumstances I had the opportunity to borrow a nice one to try out. Within a couple of years of that initial trial I had acquired, and was using, cameras in four different formats - 4x5, 5x7, whole plate and 8x10.

For me, the magic of LF is in contact prints. If that's the goal, you can afford the cost and don't mind lugging a bit of extra weight, I'd say go for it. If you intend to enlarge, either in the darkroom for from scans, I think the argument for going larger than 4x5, and just how much larger, is a more difficult call.

[jp]

If you're looking for a field camera, I presume you want to lug it to places for landscapes... If you're doing portraits, by all means get a 8x10.. If you want to photograph something a mile in the woods, 8x10 can get heavy and you might not be as eager to transport it.. Each film holder is the size of a macbook.. The Camera and padding might not fit in most photo backpacks. The lens is a solid sometimes 5 pound chunk of metal and glass. Tripods are bigger.

[Oren Grad]

An 8x10 outfit certainly can be a large burden, but it doesn't have to be. My 8x10 field kit for much of my early shooting was a lightweight camera (first a Nagaoka, later an original model Phillips Compact), a 270 G-Claron, three holders, BTZS hood, Sekonic 308 and a 3-series Gitzo. Everything except the tripod fit in my large f.64 backpack with room to spare; the tripod perched on my shoulder as I walked. I couldn't hike for hours uninterrupted that way, but 20 or 30 minutes at a time to be able to photograph in places well away from the car was no problem.

[Robert Brazile]

An 8x10 field camera is ungainly but not necessarily that heavy. I have a Cambo 8x10 monorail that I really like but wouldn't take anywhere. I have a Kodak 2D and an Intrepid 8x10 and find them OK to schlep around a bit. Not nearly as packable as a 4x5, though, so as Oren said earlier, the question is probably more about contact printing vs. enlarging. I do some of both, though have a preference for contact printing.

That having been said, if you're amenable to hybrid workflow, you can always scan 4x5, enlarge digitally (it's only 2x, with careful treatment it can often be done pretty well), and print a digital negative to do contact printing. There are many options...

Robert Brazile

[radu_c]

Thank you all for your info. I did some more research and from what I can tell, for me personally an 8x10 would be a better idea, despite weight and cost considerations. I also noticed I prefer color landscapes rather than B&W. Seeing a slide of Velvia is nothing short of a religious experience, as somebody once said. So for that reason it looks like the wet darkroom is probably going to be the second violin in the future. But things change, who knows where this would lead to.

[Oren Grad]

I also noticed I prefer color landscapes rather than B&W. Seeing a slide of Velvia is nothing short of a religious experience, as somebody once said....

Please do check the price of 8x10 transparency film and processing.

[radu_c]

Please do check the price of 8x10 transparency film and processing.

I'm well aware of the prices. It is quite a hike from what I'm spending right now but sometimes it's not all about money...

[Oren Grad]

I'm well aware of the prices....

In which case, no issue at all. Everyone is entitled to decide their own value tradeoffs.

[John Kasaian]

Welcome aboard!
I'll add that sheet film is a very different work flow than roll film and mistakes with 8x10 color would bring tears to the eyes of Scrooge McDuck!
I'll suggest starting with monochrome until you get into the swing of things. Or find a 4x5 back for your 8x10 and learn on 4x5 color film first.

Good luck!

[radu_c]

Welcome aboard!
I'll add that sheet film is a very different work flow than roll film and mistakes with 8x10 color would bring tears to the eyes of Scrooge McDuck!
I'll suggest starting with monochrome until you get into the swing of things. Or find a 4x5 back for your 8x10 and learn on 4x5 color film first.

Good luck!

Thank you, I learned so much already from you all. You read my mind; I’m definitely going to start b&w until i get the hang of it and sporadically experiment with color. I appreciate your suggestion, it makes total sense.

[G Benaim]

I would only add that I personally found 810 much easier to use than 4-5 and a much more pleasurable viewing experience. I spent maybe a year trying to get good results w 45 and gave up, and as soon as I started 810 I got excellent results, and what's more, my seeing changed in ways I couldn't have predicted. At the very least I'd recommend finding someone in your area who can let you see what working w the different formats actually feels like.