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campy
11-Mar-2018, 08:03
It requires a lot of work for me to make a place light tight for developing 5x7. Is there any reason why I can't put a 5x7 tray in an 8x10 tray in case of spillage and develop and then take the film out and place in a tray of stop then fix while in a dark but not light tight room?

mdarnton
11-Mar-2018, 08:07
I think I'd rather find a dark place. :-)

The main downside that I can think of is that I've always found that when I spend a lot of time with my hands in a changing bag the rising temperature eventually becomes unbearable. How will you control for that temperature change in the developer?

campy
11-Mar-2018, 08:20
It would only be for the development time.

Jim Michael
11-Mar-2018, 08:30
Should work if you can control contamination and temperature. I would probably make a dark box and add some sleeves.

BradS
11-Mar-2018, 09:06
Hmmm, right off the top of my head..I would think moisture inside the bag would be a major problem.
I suggest that you use a tube or a tank. A DIY tube could be fashioned out of ABS drain pipe from the hardware store.

Vaughn
11-Mar-2018, 09:10
Make something rigid out of a cardboard box using the arm holes from a changing bag.

Whoops -- what Jim said!

campy
11-Mar-2018, 09:20
If using a tube, doesn't the back of the film need to be exposed to the developer?

BradS
11-Mar-2018, 10:35
If using a tube, doesn't the back of the film need to be exposed to the developer?

No. only the emulsion side. You keep it in the tube for developer, stop and fixer. After the fixer, you can take it out into the daylight and wash.
Load film into the tube in your changing bag. Put the cap on and take take it into the bath room, close the door, stuff towels under the door, cover the windows, get in the shower and close the curtain...now, open the cap, pur in the developer, put the cap back on and you can go back into the light to agitate , rotate. The tube will float! This makes it super easy to rotate and keep the temp stable. Whn it is time to dump the developer and pour in the stop, go back into your makeshift dark room.

I've done this in hotel rooms...it works fine.

Good luck and have fun.

campy
11-Mar-2018, 11:34
Will the film fog if I develop in a tray inside the changing bag and then remove the film and place it in the stop and fix trays in a dark but not light tight room? It would be much easier than having to go through the trouble of making a light tight room to develop 4 sheets.

koraks
11-Mar-2018, 11:51
Yes, it will fog, the extent to which depending on how quickly you can get it into the stop bath. I'd personally redirect my focus on finding a way to darken a room more easily; it'll bring you more convenience in the long run. Developing in a changing bag sounds like a sure path to frustration, spills and scratched/damaged and fogged film.

Randy
11-Mar-2018, 12:48
Campy, if it's to much trouble to make your bathroom light-tight, develop film at night - just make sure that anyone else in the house / apartment knows not to turn on any lights until you give the go ahead. I used to go thru that when my kids were younger and still at home.

campy
11-Mar-2018, 13:32
Yes, it will fog, the extent to which depending on how quickly you can get it into the stop bath. I'd personally redirect my focus on finding a way to darken a room more easily; it'll bring you more convenience in the long run. Developing in a changing bag sounds like a sure path to frustration, spills and scratched/damaged and fogged film.

Will it fog if I do it in my basement and the film is only out of the bag for a couple of seconds until it hits the stop bath or does it have to fixed in total darkness?

campy
11-Mar-2018, 13:37
I only have 2 film holders so the most I will be doing at one time would be 4 sheets at most. Let me ask a different way. If film is developed in total darkness and is exposed to very faint indirect light for a few seconds will it fog while transferring it to a stop bath?

Pere Casals
11-Mar-2018, 14:09
It requires a lot of work for me to make a place light tight for developing 5x7. Is there any reason why I can't put a 5x7 tray in an 8x10 tray in case of spillage and develop and then take the film out and place in a tray of stop then fix while in a dark but not light tight room?

Do it easier, just use a paper safe, (brands: kustom, premier, doran) this is some $20 used

175796

Have another tray with stop bath, when development finished just close lights, in total darkness move the sheet to the stop bath, wait some 15s and then you can open lights, development it's completely stoped (and newly exposed grains need induction time to start any development), you can fix also with lights open, no problem and you'll see fixer strength.

If you pick a 11x14 safe then you can hot glue some plastic sticks to make 2 separate areas, so you can cook two sheets at once, even with two separate development times (different N or different film) as you can close lights two times to move a shet from the safe to the stop bath.



You can fix with lights open, absolutely no problem, at least I do it always. Some say that fixing with lights open requires slightly more time, I don't think so, anyway as you see fixing, just measure the halide clearing time. Total fixing time should be twice the time it took to clear.


What would happen if with lights open you move the sheet from the paper safe to the stop bath ?

Will film take fog ? Just try it, take a 35mm non exposed film end, two samples and compare.

In theory those newly exposed silver crystals will need an additional "development induction time" before starting development, and stop bath should kill the "in emulsion" remaining developer before induction time acomplishes, so probably you should see no added fog, but just try it, as induction time may vary on exposure, and in this case it does not include the wetting.

Jimi
11-Mar-2018, 14:23
I'd just scrounge up the money to buy a Jobo 28xx drum, a Durst Codrum or use the taco method in a Paterson three roll tank if the money is very tight. All of these are possible to load in a changing bag.

BradS
11-Mar-2018, 14:56
I only have 2 film holders so the most I will be doing at one time would be 4 sheets at most. Let me ask a different way. If film is developed in total darkness and is exposed to very faint indirect light for a few seconds will it fog while transferring it to a stop bath?

Probably. The fixer removes all remaining light sensitive material from the emulsion. Until the film has been in the fixer for a..."couple of minutes", it is still light sensitive.

BradS
11-Mar-2018, 14:59
I'd just scrounge up the money to buy a Jobo 28xx drum, a Durst Codrum or use the taco method in a Paterson three roll tank if the money is very tight. All of these are possible to load in a changing bag.

I do not think that a sheet of 5x7 will fit in any of those. The OP will want something like a Jobo 3006.

Jimi
11-Mar-2018, 15:16
I do not think that a sheet of 5x7 will fit in any of those. The OP will want something like a Jobo 3006.

All of them are suggestions that I have actually used.

LabRat
11-Mar-2018, 15:34
I have seen where film that has fallen out of a developing hanger into the developer in pro lab developing lines, and was found in the dev tank when the lights went on, was stop/fixed afterward, and the image did not fog, but got overdeveloped due to the longer dev time, but I would not count on this effect, as I have also seen that it is harder to fix/clear film that is exposed to light too soon... (And maybe a little extra base fog you might not want...)

Make your life easier by trying to set-up a dark area for processing, or try a tank/tube if a dark place cannot be found... Note that any process that involves too much handling while the film is in process invites more errors into the system (like scratching, temp control, fingerprints, etc), and just a headache to use...

Steve K

neilt3
11-Mar-2018, 15:36
Make life easy for yourself , get a Paterson Orbital Processor .
It's intended for prints , but with a very minor modification works well processing film .
Good for 4 sheets of 5x4 in one go , 2 sheets of 7x5 or 1 sheet of 10x8 .

Have a look here for more information on useing one .
http://www.rogerandfrances.com/subscription/ps%20how%20orbital.html

neilt3
11-Mar-2018, 15:40
They come up on ebay often enough like this one ( not mine , just for eg.) ; https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/152940003358?ul_noapp=true .

Notice the red peg's ?
Make sure if you get one it has at least 4 of them , there to keep the print's / negatives seperate .

When I got mine last year I paid about 40 for it . Prices are all over the place from 30 up .
Don't be in a rush to buy one and you'll get one for a good bit less than the one I linked too .

Bernice Loui
11-Mar-2018, 17:35
Might be much better using a 5x7 tank. Lost of images due to processing is a serious bummer and not worth any risk.
It would be difficult to control development, temperature and all needed in a tray-tent. The risk of something going wrong is very high.
Number of sheets involved is not really relevant, if one sheet of film has a irreplaceable image, that is the only sheet with that image.

Penny pinching on processing is very pound foolish.

http://www.bw-king.com

Never tried these, but appear to be copy-re-do of the classic Nikkor 4x5 spiral tank which works well.


Bernice

Jim Andrada
11-Mar-2018, 18:49
And the last thing you want is fixer spilled or dripped inside the changing bag. You'll never get the smell out and the bag will pickup moisture forevetmore.

Pere Casals
11-Mar-2018, 18:52
I have also seen that it is harder to fix/clear film that is exposed to light too soon... (And maybe a little extra base fog you might not want...)


Steve, I always fix lights open, I always open lights after a sheet has been 20 seconds in the (water alone) stop bath, I've checked it well that there is absolutely no added fog, and fixing time it's completely normal if done lights open.

In fact it is recommended to check fixer strength by throwing a (not developed) roll film end inside fixer and measuring how long it takes, with lights open, recommended time is x2 the time it takes clearing it.

I you had seen a harder to fix situation it could be because other factors, but IMHO not because light while fixing, at least with common rapid fixers I use.

BradS
11-Mar-2018, 19:49
Might be much better using a 5x7 tank. Lost of images due to processing is a serious bummer and not worth any risk.
It would be difficult to control development, temperature and all needed in a tray-tent. The risk of something going wrong is very high.
Number of sheets involved is not really relevant, if one sheet of film has a irreplaceable image, that is the only sheet with that image.

Penny pinching on processing is very pound foolish.

http://www.bw-king.com

Never tried these, but appear to be copy-re-do of the classic Nikkor 4x5 spiral tank which works well.


Bernice

Bernice makes some very good points to consider...


and Bernice, thank you for the link to the B&W King processing tanks!

Rick Olson
11-Mar-2018, 23:10
I use the larger Paterson daylight tank to develop my 5 x 7 sheets. Works great and done in the light after loading in a changing bag ...https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/40338-REG/Paterson_PTP116_Multi_Reel_3_Tank_ONLY.html?sts=pi

Pere Casals
12-Mar-2018, 02:39
While tanks and rotary can be also be a great choice, I'd like to point how flexible can be tray development.

First is that we can go to low agitation pattern with low risk of bromide streaks, as the horizontal position prevents gravity to work in favor of that, then the bromide stays in place controlling highlights, so it's possible to make a very compensating development from low agitation, this allows perhaps for an additional N point in compensation without streaks, if using diluted developer. Great for night shots.

Then we can use a low volume of developer (higher than rotary but lower than with tanks), we don't waste developer (in one shot) if using xtol 1:2 or even 1:1, if the tray has the right size for our sheets.

I started with tray development in darkness, then I started using a Kustom paper safe, but I found that the most convenient it's placing the trays inside a lighttight cabinet, a dry plate drying cabinet in my case that also works ideal for that. I'm really happy with that way, it has the tray flexibility and the convenience of a daylight tank. Really cheap, minimal gear, it does all sheet sizes... just one has to build a lighttight cabinet for total convenience.

Then we can place separators in the tray to place several sheets side by side. This allows for processing different films or different N developments in the same batch, by moving out each sheet just in time. Well, this is amazing, isn't it ?

Trays would be not convenient if certain sheet volume there, but at least it's the near perfect system for amateurs like me, IMHO.

John Kasaian
12-Mar-2018, 06:14
I've used a daylight tank, the kind used for developing multiple rolls of MF film, It can be loaded in a changing bag.
Works just fine but it is slow processing only one sheet of film at a time.
It is also cheap (ebay) and simple (no electricity needed) so it is useful on road trips.
Mine is a stainless steel tank with a tight fitting plastic lid so it doesn't leak when I'm rolling it around on a table but I like rolling it in a tray just in case.

campy
12-Mar-2018, 08:24
And the last thing you want is fixer spilled or dripped inside the changing bag. You'll never get the smell out and the bag will pickup moisture forevetmore.

I would only develop in the bag, stop and fix outside of bag in dark room.

Jim Noel
12-Mar-2018, 11:23
It requires a lot of work for me to make a place light tight for developing 5x7. Is there any reason why I can't put a 5x7 tray in an 8x10 tray in case of spillage and develop and then take the film out and place in a tray of stop then fix while in a dark but not light tight room?

YOu can't take it out until after a good stop bath, or preferably after fixing.

MichaelPRyan
19-Apr-2018, 03:39
I have a B&W King 5x7 daylight tank and it is VERY nice. Holds 6 sheets of 5x7 or 4x5 film. Great construction and very robust. It is perfectly fine to take film from developer to stop bath in dim room light. No worries at all. I do it with my BTZS tubes all the time.