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ryanmills
6-Mar-2018, 14:32
This is a longshot but any chance someone has found or made CAD drawing for the "8x10 Kodak Master View" hardware? Particularly the brass rails and guides? Mine have worn to the point there is just way too much play. Going to have some new one machined. I can get pretty close with calipers and some testing but thought I would ask first.

Jac@stafford.net
6-Mar-2018, 16:20
This is a longshot but any chance someone has found or made CAD drawing for the "8x10 Kodak Master View" hardware? Particularly the brass rails and guides? Mine have worn to the point there is just way too much play. Going to have some new one machined. I can get pretty close with calipers and some testing but thought I would ask first.

In my experience it is best to remove the parts and bring them to your machinist. He will be a lot happier with that because he can measure and he might know of currently available US spec parts still made.

ryanmills
6-Mar-2018, 18:21
In my experience it is best to remove the parts and bring them to your machinist. He will be a lot happier with that because he can measure and he might know of currently available US spec parts still made.

I'm actually an engineer by trade, making the part is not the issue. Measuring by hand no matter who does it is hard to get really perfect. Always nice if you can find drawings but it was a long shot.

Mark Sampson
6-Mar-2018, 20:52
Looking for CAD drawings of a camera that's been out of production for well over fifty years... hmmm.
There is a Kodak service manual for these cameras. I had a copy but it went with my camera when when I sold it some years back. I'd found it online but I can't remember where... just looked at southbristolviews but all his info is for Graflexes. Can't remember if it gave dimensions for parts- mine didn't need any- but finding one of those manuals is probably your best shot.
Another idea- contact Todd Gustavsson at the George Eastman Museum. EK sent their patent museum to GEM some years back, and the information you seek may be found there.

Luis-F-S
6-Mar-2018, 21:21
Looking for CAD drawings of a camera that's been out of production for well over fifty years... hmmm.


....before CAD or personal computers were invented...................

Jim Andrada
7-Mar-2018, 01:59
I vaguely remembered some work at Lincoln Lab about 60 years ago. I was a programmer for the Air Force Research Labs near Lincoln Labs (because it was in the town of Lincoln just outside of Boston) in 1959 - 62 and I had visited the Lincoln Lab site once or twice. Sutherland was one of the earliest to get into what's now known as Computer Graphics. They had modeled some of the area near the TX - 2 system and they had a demo going where you could put on a headset and turn your head and the computer would make a line drawing of the room showing where you were looking. So they did have some rudimentary 3D modeling capability in that time frame.

Of course I might be off a couple of years - memory is not what it used to be.

https://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Computer-aided_design/History,_Present_and_Future

Patrick13
7-Mar-2018, 08:33
It's a far cry from 3D visual modeling and a dimensioned CAD model, unfortunately.

ryanmills
7-Mar-2018, 10:35
Really I have to explain myself? It was so cryptic you could not figure it out? Because if someone today was to make a CAD drawing they have to use paper and ruler because its made in the 1950's? Because I said Kodak's CAD drawings right? Oh wait, I didn't... I asked if anyone had "found or made CAD drawing". I said CAD drawings because if I said drawings, line drawing, etc. I would have gotten smart ass responses :rolleyes:. Do you think they made these cameras from cave paintings? Some numbers and sizes written on a wall? I'm sure the original plans are likely lost to time but there was a chance someone had found them and made modern files. I'm about to do it, I'm sure others have done it for other cameras since you can't just run down to kodak for spare parts. If you take a part to a machinist he is going to make a drawing or even model depending on the part and process. I'm just completely crazy for asking for such a thing! The audacity to suggest a camera from the 1950's could have modern drawings! It was not created until the 60's! Surely you can't use computer to draw old things! Next time I will just ask for plans so you slow minded guys can say original things like "plans for a camera that's been out of production for well over fifty years... hmmm." I said it was a long shot but it takes a few seconds to ask. Read the post and think it through next time dumb-asses.

With that said, Mark does have a good lead. I do know someone at GEM. I will ask him by, wait for it... modern facebook messenger... It's going to be hard to believe, but you can do that even to a Museum that's for cameras made before Facebook!

Jac@stafford.net
7-Mar-2018, 11:10
since you can't just run down to kodak for spare parts.


It would be interesting to learn whether Kodak used some common, standard parts. I rebuilt an 8x10 Saltzman enlarger with parts from our local farm supply.

ryanmills
7-Mar-2018, 11:29
It would be interesting to learn whether Kodak used some common, standard parts. I rebuilt an 8x10 Saltzman enlarger with parts from our local farm supply.

There is a fair bit that is, knobs, gears and some of the basic metal parts. In my case the focus rack/guide and the bracket that connects the rear standard to the rack is really loose. Pretty unlikely those were off the shelf. Sounds like it's been a common issue. Would love to know the original tolerances. The way it connects I feel like it must have always had some play.

Tin Can
7-Mar-2018, 11:51
There is a fair bit that is, knobs, gears and some of the basic metal parts. In my case the focus rack/guide and the bracket that connects the rear standard to the rack is really loose. Pretty unlikely those were off the shelf. Sounds like it's been a common issue. Would love to know the original tolerances. The way it connects I feel like it must have always had some play.

When I got mine, a very clean and light usage version, it had many loose small screws. I blamed shipping vibration. Airplanes and trucks vibrate.

I replaced some with off the shelf McMaster Carr and tightened most.

It also has some thin spacers that could be missing from yours.

ryanmills
7-Mar-2018, 12:51
When I got mine, a very clean and light usage version, it had many loose small screws. I blamed shipping vibration. Airplanes and trucks vibrate.

I replaced some with off the shelf McMaster Carr and tightened most.

It also has some thin spacers that could be missing from yours.

Mine is loose in the track where the bracket slides on the rail. I added some metal tape to build up the gears, kind of works. I think I can remake those two parts with a much tighter fit. Hoping that will solve the issue for me.

ryanmills
7-Mar-2018, 14:39
For those you might find this in the future. The George Eastman Museum does not have the plans. I was told the plans and blueprints were tossed when they brought the building that housed them down. Patents would not have the level of detail needed. Sadly one more thing likely lost to time.

Mark Sampson
7-Mar-2018, 14:52
The service manual does exist. Some KMV user/fan had posted a website devoted to the camera- I found it about ten years ago. That's where I found the manual and printed it out. Of course I can't recall the URL, and that site may no longer exist.
I'd query the repair people- SKGrimes or Richard Ritter for starters. And perhaps Michael A. Smith will have that documentation. He and Paula were offering new lens boards to fit the KMV a few years back.

Jac@stafford.net
7-Mar-2018, 15:01
Ryan, you might have initiated an important moment in history. The KMV is so very good. I would like to believe that documenting its metrics could carry the KMV into the future for the rest of us.

I have too many 8x10, but no KMV. I have just made an offer one one which I will dissect.
.

Pere Casals
7-Mar-2018, 16:02
Looking for CAD drawings of a camera that's been out of production for well over fifty years... hmmm.


Don't think it's something that rare... for example I made the drawings for CAMBO SC 8x10... this is because I'm making my own 810 and I just wanted to understand very well all design details of the SC, if he asked for the SC drawings I would have been able to help...

175629

175630

175631

ryanmills
7-Mar-2018, 22:11
The service manual does exist. Some KMV user/fan had posted a website devoted to the camera- I found it about ten years ago. That's where I found the manual and printed it out. Of course I can't recall the URL, and that site may no longer exist.
I'd query the repair people- SKGrimes or Richard Ritter for starters. And perhaps Michael A. Smith will have that documentation. He and Paula were offering new lens boards to fit the KMV a few years back.

I do have the owner's manual and parts list. Sadly neither include mechanical drawings. I will have to ask around and see if anyone has a service manual.


Don't think it's something that rare... for example I made the drawings for CAMBO SC 8x10... this is because I'm making my own 810 and I just wanted to understand very well all design details of the SC, if he asked for the SC drawings I would have been able to help...

175629

175630

175631

Looks like your doing exactly the same thing I am. I might be bias because I spend 8 hours a day in it but I love solidworks. You can build just about anything with it and is just so fast. As long as you have a good model to work with you can test fit everything. The KMV is such a simple camera, it wont take long and half the fastener parts I know I can get part files from mcmaster. There are only a few parts like the spring back that would be harder to reproduce accurately. One more thing the original blueprints would be great for.

Pere Casals
8-Mar-2018, 02:03
Ryan, you know, today we have those powerful tools that design and prototyping so fast... it's amazing.



The KMV is such a simple camera

IMHO, the difficult thing is making a design simple while more functional, it only took some 6 hours to draw that SC back, but I learned more about the this kind of product than spending 6 days on it with a magnifier. In such a design there are a lot of well thinked details, it's difficult to imagine how many, and every detail has a deep motivation.

Sure that in the KMV there are also a lot of amazing practical details that are easy to overlook, a simple design always requires a good designer...

Greg Davis
10-Mar-2018, 07:46
There is no existing service manual, just the parts manual. I had the site dedicated to the camera and even used to make spare parts for them, but never the gears. A VP at Kodak put me in touch with someone in the company that knew the camera pretty well, and they sent me copies of the manual and parts list. They said that was all they ever had.

Mark Sampson
10-Mar-2018, 10:07
Greg, a belated thanks for putting up that site. Even inside the company, I could never have found those documents (not least because I hadn't known they existed). The KMV we had in our department was taken care of by the division maintenance shop- although we retired it when the bellows went. My own camera had been used less and didn't need help- but the docs were good to have.
Ryan, best of luck with yours. I do miss my old one, although it found a good home.

ryanmills
11-Mar-2018, 18:15
There is no existing service manual, just the parts manual. I had the site dedicated to the camera and even used to make spare parts for them, but never the gears. A VP at Kodak put me in touch with someone in the company that knew the camera pretty well, and they sent me copies of the manual and parts list. They said that was all they ever had.

Any chance you ever made the left and right brackets or the focus rack (rack not the gears)? Hoping to find a drawing for either.

Greg Davis
12-Mar-2018, 18:00
No, sorry. I made new handles, bushings for under the front standard, and the latches that keep the camera closed. I was investigating, but never finished, new cast aluminum knobs and I was testing a glass infused spray to recreate the coated ground glass. I also found a company that would make a custom color wrinkle finish powder coat to match the original paint. I can’t find their name anymore. Frankly, there aren’t enough people using these cameras to make parts affordable or profitable.