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Moogie
1-Mar-2018, 10:22
Dear forum friends,

I know a lot of you guys are using antique lenses, probably many of them have no shutters.

I heard about the lens cap on-off technique, if you do not want to invest in a back mounted shutter.

As I want to try this lens cap on-off first, I am wondering if there are any tips, tricks dos and don'ts when using this technique.
Which exposure time is minimum recommended to do this technique.
Take it off from left, put it on from right to avoid one side darker than the other?
How to best avoid shaking the camera...

Probably tomorrow I want to give it a first try, so maybe some of you can help me to make it right straight away?

Thanks a lot and best regards, Miguel

Peter Gomena
1-Mar-2018, 11:00
I found fumbling with a lens cap frustrating. I bought a big can of tuna at the store, and after lunch I cleaned it out and lined it with sticky-back black felt from a craft store. Much easier to pop on-and-off than a lens shade.

Some people wear a black felt hat while they're photographing and use that as a shutter.

ic-racer
1-Mar-2018, 11:46
I use a lens cap and I don't worry too much about vibrations. If I were concerned about sharpness, I'd not be using a brass barrel lens.

Simple math tells us that if it takes 1/2 second to remove and replace the lens cap, a maximum 1/3 stop error could be present if the target time was 3 seconds. Any target exposure time greater than 3 sec would diminish the lenscap replacement exposure error to less than 1/3 stop.

Mark Sawyer
1-Mar-2018, 11:59
The usual techniques involve ND filters, rotating dual linear polarizing filters, slower films, subdued light, Packard shutters, a variety of front-mounted shutters (Thornton-Pickard, Luc, etc.), and small apertures, (although especially with lenses that have a particular signature, that signature goes away as you shut down the aperture).

Most importantly, do a search for the "Galli shutter" on this forum and YouTube.

Jac@stafford.net
1-Mar-2018, 12:15
[...]
Most importantly, do a search for the "Galli shutter" on this forum and YouTube.

:) I have Galli's video bookmarked. See it here. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Baa8Bwnn9Sk)

Steven Tribe
1-Mar-2018, 13:38
We have another tool these days - in combination with above mentioned methods. Slow dry plates are now available which makes cap use etc. able to deliver correct exposures even if you have fumble fingers!

Jim Galli
1-Mar-2018, 14:48
:) I have Galli's video bookmarked. See it here. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Baa8Bwnn9Sk)

Thanks Jac, but I have to say, perhaps 1/250th was a little puffery. ;~'))

bob carnie
1-Mar-2018, 16:10
I close down to about 22 or 32 , I am usually taking photos of small objects so the bellows is long, and I have found that with fp4 I get a good negative at about 3 steamboats and I do a second one at 6 steamboats. I take the lens cap off and I find it a bit clumsy but workable.

jp
1-Mar-2018, 16:25
The Galli video is good.

If it's 4x5, I use a speed graphic. 1/15 to 1/1000 (ish) speeds.
If it's 8x10 and a 9" lensboard, I also use a speed graphic as mid-shutter.

Drew Wiley
1-Mar-2018, 16:59
Get a clip-on lens cap, the kind where you can just gently squeeze the two tabs. Make sure it is light tight. Then use a relatively slow film and if necessary a deep filter. I try to get an exposure of at least ten sec. But the first time I tried this, I was shocked to see that the negative was perfectly sharp.

Drew Wiley
1-Mar-2018, 17:22
But there are different methods. On the other side of the world they count, one Brahmaputra, two Brahmaputra, etc.

Moogie
2-Mar-2018, 08:21
Thanks to all of you for all the valuable input.
As my wife was too tired this evening I had to improvise and arranged some toy story on the table.
With a bellows extension of almost double the focal length, some darkness with only one soft golden 10 degree spotlight,
I was able to achieve long enough exposure times between 15 and 25 seconds.
So the lens cap on-off technique I tried first.
This was actually quite OK to handle as my cap is not too sticky (it's not the original but a little bigger one made smaller with a velcro strip).
More difficult was to close the aperture, as the ring is not really smooth anymore, without moving the camera...
I hope tomorrow I find some time to develop and scan.
Let's see the result and get surprised...

The advanced galli technique I will definitely also try later...

Vaughn
2-Mar-2018, 13:07
Using barrel lenses in the redwoods with exposure times in the minutes, the caps have worked fine. I usually wiggle the cap almost all the way off, let the camera settle down, then remove the lenscap the rest of the way...usually downward, letting gravity assist...and generally back on from the bottom, also. Not 100%, so I lose a negative occasionally to shake.

Moogie
3-Mar-2018, 08:34
You were right, I am surprised!

I did not expect this lens would be still so good and somehow I am not seeing anything blurred from camera shaking.

This was the 15 seconds exposure, with F45.

Thanks a again to everybody. Looking forward to try this lens a little more.

Nice weekend, Miguel

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4619/39698896375_bde05892ce_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/23u4dNB)
The_Monsters_and_the_girl (https://flic.kr/p/23u4dNB) by Miguel Buschhauer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/144562239@N03/), on Flickr

Nodda Duma
3-Mar-2018, 09:58
Great result! Yes, antique lenses can achieve beautiful results if they are used as originally intended (long exposures, working within the color spectrum they were designed for, etc.

Jim Galli
3-Mar-2018, 11:55
Sometimes some of them can achieve great results working in black and white outside of the color spectrum they were designed for in order to achieve a soft focus halo buzz. Most of that was gone even in the oldest lenses though.

Jac@stafford.net
3-Mar-2018, 13:11
Of course if working in low light, we can use a diffuse flash. Reveal lens, make exposure, cover lens. No camera shake.

LabRat
3-Mar-2018, 15:49
I shoot a lot of still lifes with barrel lenses in the dark, using low wattage lights (inc LED & CFL) using an enlarging timer for timing... Lights out, pull slide, let settle, hit timer button, and slide in again and done...

Just don't exceed the rated load marked on timer for lamp wattage...

Steve K

Moogie
4-Mar-2018, 20:09
Yes, this is an obvious method to come around some of the obstacles.
I wonder why it didn't come into my mind before :-)
So I will add this to the techniques I will try in future, with or without enlarging time involved...

Thanks, Miguel

CHELLM
12-Mar-2018, 09:30
Dear forum friends,

I know a lot of you guys are using antique lenses, probably many of them have no shutters.

I heard about the lens cap on-off technique, if you do not want to invest in a back mounted shutter.

As I want to try this lens cap on-off first, I am wondering if there are any tips, tricks dos and don'ts when using this technique.
Which exposure time is minimum recommended to do this technique.
Take it off from left, put it on from right to avoid one side darker than the other?
How to best avoid shaking the camera...

Probably tomorrow I want to give it a first try, so maybe some of you can help me to make it right straight away?

Thanks a lot and best regards, Miguel

Hullo.
1- Bowl Hat
2- Square shoes box you hang down as far as the lens board.
3- Same soft pouch bag you carry the lens

Vaughn
12-Mar-2018, 10:05
Hullo.
1- Bowl Hat
2- Square shoes box you hang down as far as the lens board.
3- Same soft pouch bag you carry the lens

I have a box lid from a Kodak Polycontrast Filter Kit (Model A) that functions perfectly as a shutter on a couple of my barrel lenses -- just enough friction to keep it on when the lens is pointed downwards.

alex from holland
12-Mar-2018, 14:49
Take of the cap and hold it in front of the lens instead of pulling it of.
With wet or dry plate it works fine because of the low iso value. No vibration and always ready the exact monent.

jnantz
12-Mar-2018, 17:14
at a certain point, as ic-racer states ...
it doesn't really matter.

and it looks like you realized that :)
john

LabRat
12-Mar-2018, 20:18
I have used lids from deep film boxes many times as a shutter...

If you want to get fancy, you can line the inside with black velvet or something plush and black...

Steve K

Moogie
13-Mar-2018, 06:04
I see this topic is still alive and still receives new inputs.
Thanks a lot for all contributors.
As with low light the cap on-off method worked out already quite OK (I also pulled it off and just very slightly moved it back on a bit for the procedure).
Next when I go and use the lens outside in daylight with regular ISO I want to go for the Galli method and practise it before a little bit.
So far this seems like the best method to achieve more or less short exposure times. But I expect that not only the technique, also the right opening angle for each time must be allowed some time to become familiar.
So in the beginning I will count in some lost learning sheets and hope for some flexible forgiveness of the film :-)
Anyway it will be fun to learn new things.
Ordered already a low ISO film (RPX25, as CMS 20 was out of stock) and also remembered I also have the Rollei Infrared which could be exposed on ISO 6 if I am not mistaken.
For this instance I plan to check out the Fedora shutter as it should fit over the rectangle film holder...
Wet plate tin types come a bit later then.
So many interesting things of this hobby, it never gets boring, right?

DrTang
13-Mar-2018, 07:26
I use a hat

in studio.. I use a black bowler hat


take hat off - fire strobe via flashmeter - replace hat

John Jarosz
14-Mar-2018, 10:41
I use this occasionally, I made one for 8x10 as well.
175939

Vaughn
14-Mar-2018, 20:54
Nice, John!

angusparker
15-Mar-2018, 01:28
I wrote a post about shuttering lenses which you can read here (http://www.angusparkerphoto.com/blog/2017/2/how-to-put-a-barrel-lens-in-a-shutter). But the long and short of it is if you're going to have a herd of barrel lenses I'd invest in a Sinar shutter and front mount your lenses on a Sinar lensboard. Of course the hat / lens cap trick is much easier if you have slow film and slow lenses.