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john_vandale_
27-Feb-2018, 15:21
Hi folks!

I have this wonderful lens at home but as you can see there are parts missing...

I'm a beginer with LF photography and don't know much about it. It seems it lacks a shutter. I've been told a Compur3 shutter.

BUT the only one I've found on e-bay is sooooo expensive! And I don't really need a shutter 'cause I'm doing wet plates. A lens cap is sufficient...

Do you have an advice for me? Or a diy trick?

My main camera is a Linhof Technika and I've already build a few lens boards...

Thank you so much for your attention!

175360

Bob Salomon
27-Feb-2018, 15:27
Hi folks!

I have this wonderful lens at home but as you can see there are parts missing...

I'm a beginer with LF photography and don't know much about it. It seems it lacks a shutter. I've been told a Compur3 shutter.

BUT the only one I've found on e-bay is sooooo expensive! And I don't really need a shutter 'cause I'm doing wet plates. A lens cap is sufficient...

Do you have an advice for me? Or a diy trick?

You need a 3 size shutter or, in place of a shutter a barrel mount for thatlens. A shutter, Copal or Compur will be much easier to find. You may or may not need shims also.

My main camera is a Linhof Technika and I've already build a few lens boards...

Thank you so much for your attention!

175360

john_vandale_
27-Feb-2018, 15:36
Hi Bob! Thank you so much for answering!:D

So you say I can use ANY size 3 shutter? What's the cheapest option? What's a shim?

Jason Greenberg Motamedi
27-Feb-2018, 15:39
No, you need a Compur II shutter or Copal/Compur III with adapters.

The 150/2.8 Xenotar lenses were originally mounted in a Compur II shutter variant (II 5/2+3). Not all Compur II shutters will work. It later was fitted with adapters and mounted in a Copal or Compur III shutter. Hopefully someone else will weigh in, but the easiest remedy for this will be to find a 240mm f5.6 Schneider Symmar convertible and swap elements. The 240 Symmar came in both II and III shutters. The elements just unscrew from the II and you can put your Xenotar glass in. It is a bit more complex with the III shutters, as the Symmar was also fitted with adapters which need to be removed and mounted on your Xenotar before it screws into the shutter. They may be difficult to remove.

Good luck.

See here: https://www.schneideroptics.com/info/vintage_lens_data/large_format_lenses/xenotar/data/2,8-150mm.html

and

Here: https://www.schneideroptics.com/info/vintage_lens_data/large_format_lenses/symmar/data/5,6-240mm.html

john_vandale_
27-Feb-2018, 15:47
Ok... thx a lot Jason!

These shutters are so identical to me, with different names and prices... some look recent, other very old... some are 20 dollars and some 400... I'm very lost with these technical parts... :(

MAubrey
27-Feb-2018, 17:43
If you find a Symmar 240mm f/5.6 in a Copal #3 shutter to use, you will find that the Symmar is screwed into the Copal with threaded adapters on the front and back cells. These are to convert it from a Compur II to a Copal/Compur #3. If you want o get it in a #3 shutter, you'll need those threaded adapters.

EdSawyer
27-Feb-2018, 20:03
As mentioned above, the Compur #2 5/II variant is the one you want. I actually happen to have a spare one. but other places to find one are: Symmar 240, 165mm Angulon, Some Tele Arton 240s and 270s, and a few other lenses. There is also a barrel mount for it, that is just an aperture, no shutter, which would work fine too, and would be found on the same lenses.

-Ed

Corran
27-Feb-2018, 22:17
Also an older 305mm G-Claron barrel or in shutter can fit the Xenotar. Has to be the older model.

MAubrey's solution is probably the easiest/cheapest. Or use a Speed Graphic, another cheap option.

I've had 2 270mm Tele Arton lenses and neither shutter fit my Xenotar.

EdSawyer
27-Feb-2018, 22:28
if he wanted to use a SG he'd still need a barrel. It must be the 240 tele arton that is in the #2.

Corran
27-Feb-2018, 22:32
Yes, possibly could make something at home with some care and one of us giving him the space between the front and rear elements.

blue4130
28-Feb-2018, 02:14
This would be a great application for a 3d printer. Easy to make a barrel if you are only doing wetplate.

john_vandale_
28-Feb-2018, 03:47
As mentioned above, the Compur #2 5/II variant is the one you want. I actually happen to have a spare one. but other places to find one are: Symmar 240, 165mm Angulon, Some Tele Arton 240s and 270s, and a few other lenses. There is also a barrel mount for it, that is just an aperture, no shutter, which would work fine too, and would be found on the same lenses.

-Ed

Thank y'all mates! I think you help a LOT!

I'm interested with your spare Compur II Ed. please let me know how much you'll ask for it!

Bob Salomon
28-Feb-2018, 03:54
This would be a great application for a 3d printer. Easy to make a barrel if you are only doing wetplate.

The barrel would also, of course, have the diaphragm. It is more then a tube!

john_vandale_
28-Feb-2018, 04:01
This would be a great application for a 3d printer. Easy to make a barrel if you are only doing wetplate.

Yap! But I'll need the exact mesurement for that...

blue4130
28-Feb-2018, 07:05
The barrel would also, of course, have the diaphragm. It is more then a tube!

Wet plate is usually done wide open, and in absence, waterhouse stops are pretty easy to make.

blue4130
28-Feb-2018, 07:06
Yap! But I'll need the exact mesurement for that...
Measurments are pretty easy to figure out if you know that it fits in a certain shutter.

john_vandale_
28-Feb-2018, 07:07
Yes! I'd like to fix this lens mainly for wide aperture use. Sort of studio swallow dof portraiture.

john_vandale_
1-Mar-2018, 05:21
Hi guys! Is this a solution for my problem?

https://m.ebay.fr/itm/Schneider-Kreuznach-Symar-1-5-6-240-1-12-420/142659291096?_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D20150519202400%26meid%3D4c140b5b741c440f8f64dd20f6404aa4%26pid%3D100408%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D9%26sd%3D323102618097%26itm%3D142659291096&_trksid=p2349624.c100408.m2460

karl french
1-Mar-2018, 08:46
Basically. Though I'm not sure if the Linhof beauty ring on the front of the shutter with get in the way of the big front element of the Xenotar. I think it will be fine. Just went through this myself looking for the proper shutter for a 165mm Angulon. Found a similarly rough Symmar 240 for $120.

EdSawyer
1-Mar-2018, 09:40
One of my 150 xenotars is in a Linhof compur 2 shutter (that exact one actually), it fits fine in spite of the beauty ring. That's a good price for that lens/shutter. You won't find the shutter itself for much cheaper (if at all). If the shutter works at all speeds, I'd say go for it - the linhof versions are a bit nicer looking than the non-linhof verison.

Bob Salomon
1-Mar-2018, 09:46
One of my 150 xenotars is in a Linhof compur 2 shutter (that exact one actually), it fits fine in spite of the beauty ring. That's a good price for that lens/shutter. You won't find the shutter itself for much cheaper (if at all). If the shutter works at all speeds, I'd say go for it - the linhof versions are a bit nicer looking than the non-linhof verison.

How well does your lens cover 45 wide open?

Corran
1-Mar-2018, 10:01
You didn't ask me but my Xenotar covers 4x5 fine, at all apertures...that's what it was for.

EdSawyer
1-Mar-2018, 22:27
Mine covers fine wide open, or seems to from what I can tell of the shots I take that way. Usually I am shooting @ f/4 where it's optimized though.

john_vandale_
2-Mar-2018, 01:13
One of my 150 xenotars is in a Linhof compur 2 shutter (that exact one actually), it fits fine in spite of the beauty ring. That's a good price for that lens/shutter. You won't find the shutter itself for much cheaper (if at all). If the shutter works at all speeds, I'd say go for it - the linhof versions are a bit nicer looking than the non-linhof verison.


Thank you very much y'all guys! You helped a lot.

I bought this 240 schneider lens with his compur shutter. I'll tell you!

Thx once again!

EdSawyer
3-Mar-2018, 07:53
Good luck! It should work out fine. I will measure the overall length of mine in shutter to give you a reference point. If your cells+shutter are the same length, you are in good shape.

john_vandale_
13-Mar-2018, 11:55
Well guys! I bought this Schneider Symar 5.6/240mm for the Compur II that came with it... but it doesnít really works!
In fact the Xenotar fits nicelly but the aperture is too small. The Xenotar isnít f/2.8 anymore but maybe 3.5 or about...

Corran
13-Mar-2018, 12:00
You have to measure the aperture as seen through the front element. Or are the iris blades visible when opened as wide as possible with the elements installed?

john_vandale_
13-Mar-2018, 12:41
No, I measured it like this and the blades are invisible when wide open. Are you sure for this method? My pictures all came underexposed about one stop when rated at f2.8. That’s what made me doubt.

I think I read 45mm through the lens, but I’ll double check tomorrow when I’ll have that lens with me.

EdSawyer
13-Mar-2018, 19:11
it may not look like it but it's 2.8. underexposure can have many reasons.

john_vandale_
14-Mar-2018, 02:24
Well I'll try some new tests... TTL measuring is really strange: it depends on the distance you look! ;)

Jim Galli
14-Mar-2018, 18:17
Some front elements use magnification to make a larger equivalent aperture than measured. 240/5.6=42.85 Where 150/2.8=53.57 Quite a difference in straight math. With the 150 front group in place, do you physically see the restriction in the shutter when aperture is wide open?

MAubrey
15-Mar-2018, 15:36
TTL measuring is really strange: it depends on the distance you look! ;)
And that's exactly how it works!