PDA

View Full Version : are there 24x36 or MF lenses that can be used on 4x5?



Havoc
23-Feb-2018, 14:49
Just asking, but are there 24x36 and MF lenses that can cover a 4x5? I just ask because I got given a few of "for parts" 24x36 cameras that I could re-use the lens mount off. Got a lathe and mill so making a rough lensboard and have some fun could be a possibility. And there are quite a few P6, Fuji 690, Mamiya Press, M645 lenses in the cupboard. Ok, some of those will need a shutter of some sort but hey, why not, with some direct positive film a lenscap can do.

Jac@stafford.net
23-Feb-2018, 14:58
Short answer - for lenses designed for 24x36mm, NO.

Lenses designed for medium format, NO, however if you wish to experiment, stick to 4x5" and maybe look to circular images. A Rodenstock 35mm Grandagon might be fun, but I'm pretty sure that is not among the lot you got.

Drew Wiley
23-Feb-2018, 15:15
It's been done. Kinda like looking thru a doughnut hole with a squinty eyes. Logistically, you'd probably need a bag bellows n recessed board due the short focus length.

Bob Salomon
23-Feb-2018, 15:17
For extreme macro? Yes. For infinity? No.

Pfsor
23-Feb-2018, 15:48
As said above - whatever lens for 35 mm format or bigger can be used on 4x5 - provided you take pics with sufficient magnification. The quality of the result is a different thing altogether.

ic-racer
23-Feb-2018, 16:29
35mm Camera Lenses: Pretty much anything, as long as the subject is about 40mm diagonal.

120 Format Camera Lenses: A few press camera lenses and/or shift lenses can cover at infinity. For example the Super Horseman 120mm/5.6 has full coverage at infinity (Image Circle 160mm)

Pere Casals
23-Feb-2018, 16:41
Beyond all that, MF lenses can be used creatively in 4x5 for "periscope style" images.

Mark Sawyer
23-Feb-2018, 17:26
I'll go a little farther and tell you the reason why the answer is "no". Any excess coverage beyond the edges of a frame allows more light bouncing around inside the camera during exposure, washing out the image to some degree. No manufacturer wants to be known for that. Only in large format do we look for more coverage, for using movements or moving to a larger format.

Greg
23-Feb-2018, 17:38
28mm PC Nikkor on 4x5. Lens is mounted on a Sinar board with a Nikon female mount. Sinar copal shutter on an Auxiliary standard with 4x5 Sinar back. Amazingly the focused image matches the distance marks on the Nikkor!

Actual image on the negative is tack sharp...

David Lobato
23-Feb-2018, 17:51
A friend told me that the Leica thread mount 135mm f4.5 Hector lens covered 4x5 when he tried it. No shutter of course.

Maris Rusis
23-Feb-2018, 18:02
I've tested some Mamiya RB67 lenses on 4x5 for infinity subjects.
37mm f4.5 Fisheye hits the long edges, just reaches the short edges.
50mm f4.5 just misses the corners.
127mm f3.8 covers 4x5 with a few millimetres to spare.
360mm f6.3 just misses the corners.

Dan Fromm
23-Feb-2018, 18:59
I haven't tried it but the VM reports that the 12"/4 TTH Telephoto fitted to Vinten F.95, Williamson F.134 and AGI F.139 aerial cameras, all of which shot 6x6 on 70 mm film, will just cover 4x5. Works well on 2x3, but that proves little.

I b'lieve that Mr. Galli has one, don't know whether he's tried it on 4x5.

Two23
23-Feb-2018, 19:41
That is pretty cool.


Kent in SD

Simon Benton
24-Feb-2018, 07:06
RB67 150mm f4 soft focus covers 4 X 5

consummate_fritterer
24-Feb-2018, 08:55
Here's an interesting example: http://www.half-fast.com/

Delfi_r
24-Feb-2018, 12:21
You can mount the optical unit of a Leica Emar 135 mm f:4 and mount it on a shuter with 39 mm diameter. The same for a Hector 135 mm. The intended use was the Visoflex housing but you can use it on bellows cameras.

It will cover 9x12 at least, as the 135 Leica first lens was originally designed for the large format market. There is a lot of Leitz history before the Leica. Don’t expect great results.

Bob Salomon
24-Feb-2018, 12:45
You can mount the optical unit of a Leica Emar 135 mm f:4 and mount it on a shuter with 39 mm diameter. The same for a Hector 135 mm. The intended use was the Visoflex housing but you can use it on bellows cameras.

It will cover 9x12 at least, as the 135 Leica first lens was originally designed for the large format market. There is a lot of Leitz history before the Leica. Donít expect great results.

39mm Leica thread has a different thread pitch then a shutter with the normal 39mm thread. One will not properly screw into the other without an adapter or a special shutter like the 0 shutter used on the later Linhof Macro Lens Boards.

Havoc
24-Feb-2018, 15:40
Quite a few good ideas and guidance. I certainly like the results of the Arsat 30mm and I can try the MF shift lenses. So if I get it right, nothing worth spending lots of time and money on but fun and maybe nice results after a rainy day.

Jac@stafford.net
24-Feb-2018, 15:48
You can mount the optical unit of a Leica Emar 135 mm f:4 and mount it on a shuter with 39 mm diameter. The same for a Hector 135 mm. The intended use was the Visoflex housing but you can use it on bellows cameras [... snip please see post ...]

My 135mm Hektor's thread measures as 42.4mm OD. *I cannot measure TPI. Does the OD (42.4mm) correspond to any shutter - how about enlarger threads?

*(I need to buy a proper TPI gauge.)

Pfsor
24-Feb-2018, 16:03
Quite a few good ideas and guidance. I certainly like the results of the Arsat 30mm and I can try the MF shift lenses. So if I get it right, nothing worth spending lots of time and money on but fun and maybe nice results after a rainy day.

Why on the Earth you would like to buy MF shift lenses to use on LF film when you can use equivalent FL in LF lenses? What's the fun?

Bob Salomon
24-Feb-2018, 16:18
Why on the Earth you would like to buy MF shift lenses to use on LF film when you can use equivalent FL in LF lenses? What's the fun?

Because they should have a larger image circle.

rdenney
24-Feb-2018, 23:00
Quite a few good ideas and guidance. I certainly like the results of the Arsat 30mm and I can try the MF shift lenses. So if I get it right, nothing worth spending lots of time and money on but fun and maybe nice results after a rainy day.

The Arsat 30 should make a circle about 90mm in diameter, except the ears of the front rim will invade the image slightly and top, bottom, and both sides. Fisheye lenses make a circle about three times their focal length, emphasis on the "about". I've thought about installing an Arsat fisheye on a board for use with a Sinar shutter, but in the end the work it would take exceeded my interest. It's about the only one that would do something not possible any other way. The Pentax 67 35mm fisheye would make an image about 105mm in diameter, and it doesn't have those ears. That might make a more interesting experiment as a full-circle fisheye on 4x5.

The medium-format shift lenses are often barrel constrained on the rear. The Arsat 55 pcs allows 12mm of motion, and I think will make about a 105 or 110mm image circle, which hardly seems worth the trouble compared to springing for a 47 Super Angulon XL. The Hartblei 45 is maybe that much. Or if you don't mind an image circle that small, get a 47/5.6 Super Angulon, which has an image circle of about 120mm or something like that, and would be cheaper. It would also be better--no geometric distortion or field curvature, which the rectilinear lenses will both have.

The Pentax 67 75mm shift lens allows a shift of 20mm, so it has to have at least 135 or 140mm of coverage. Still not enough for 4x5, and it's a pricier lens than most 75/8 LF lenses, which would be better anyway.

I think I recall that the latest Canon TS/E lenses have an image circle of about 60mm, which would make the 24 an interesting lens on the 645 format, though you may have to cut away parts of the barrel to make it work. That is not a cheap experiment. Most lenses for 35mm cameras will only have an image circle of about 50mm at infinity.

Rick "noting the difference between possible and worthwhile" Denney

consummate_fritterer
24-Feb-2018, 23:15
Yes, Rick, without modification the 30mm ARSAT will show the little ears intended as lens shades. However, on the web page I posted a link to, the person cut those off. The Pentax, as you know, will make an image circle larger than the width of 4x5 film whereas the ARSAT will make a nice full circle nearly to the edges.

Pfsor
25-Feb-2018, 00:15
Because they should have a larger image circle.


...
The medium-format shift lenses are often barrel constrained on the rear. The Arsat 55 pcs allows 12mm of motion, and I think will make about a 105 or 110mm image circle, which hardly seems worth the trouble compared to springing for a 47 Super Angulon XL. The Hartblei 45 is maybe that much. Or if you don't mind an image circle that small, get a 47/5.6 Super Angulon, which has an image circle of about 120mm or something like that, and would be cheaper. It would also be better--no geometric distortion or field curvature, which the rectilinear lenses will both have.

The Pentax 67 75mm shift lens allows a shift of 20mm, so it has to have at least 135 or 140mm of coverage. Still not enough for 4x5, and it's a pricier lens than most 75/8 LF lenses, which would be better anyway.
...
Rick "noting the difference between possible and worthwhile" Denney

It seems Bob, that is not the case.

Havoc
25-Feb-2018, 03:36
Why on the Earth you would like to buy MF shift lenses to use on LF film when you can use equivalent FL in LF lenses? What's the fun?

I don't have to buy them, like I said in the first post I have them. Got an Arsat 55PSC, Arsat 45PSC, Arsat 30mm sitting on my shelf. Same for the Mamiya Press lenses, I have them on the shelf (and the cameras to go with them), likewise a good set of Fuji 690 lenses.

So why not spend a fun rainy afternoon making a lensboard? It isn't that hard to find a P6 extension tube for a few coins on a fair and I have a Mamiya Standard beyond saving around as well that can provide a fitting. I'm not going to spend more than a bit of loose change and an afternoon in the shop on this.

Don't worry, I'm not going to take a saw to the G617 :D

Pfsor
25-Feb-2018, 05:23
I don't have to buy them, like I said in the first post I have them...

In your first post you said - "And there are quite a few P6, Fuji 690, Mamiya Press, M645 lenses in the cupboard." Not one word about having an Arsat 55PSC, 45 PSC...
Fuji 690, Mamiya Press, are not MF shift lenses - hence my question. Live well.