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View Full Version : Fuji 250 6.3 or 250 6.7, I am confused? Is one superior to another in 8x10 Use?



Harlequin
29-Jan-2018, 13:05
Hello

I was wondering what the differences were between these 2 Fuji lenses.

A) Other than aperture, is there a big difference in image quality.
B) If using on 4x5 for portraiture, would there be a best choice between the tow.
C) If using as a moderate to wide normal lens on 8x10, which has a larger image circle
or do they both "cover" 8x10.
D) Any sample images from these lenses would be appreciated!!

I just don't want to make the wrong choice based on the uses I described above...

Thank You for your input and responses!!

Harlequin

dentkimterry
29-Jan-2018, 13:19
F6.7 has a larger image circle..
Terry

xkaes
29-Jan-2018, 13:19
There was one f6.7 -- single coated. There were two f6.3 models -- EBC coated. The f6.7 has a substantially larger IC. All three cover 8x10.

http://www.subclub.org/fujinon/byfl.htm

mdarnton
29-Jan-2018, 14:30
It's worth noting that the f/6.3 version is spec'd at just barely covering 8x10 at f/22, which probably indicates that coverage at a wider opening is doubtful.

Drew Wiley
29-Jan-2018, 14:43
I'd only recommend the 6.7 version for 8X10. But the tiny Fuji 240 A has just about the same coverage and is more common.

arthur berger
29-Jan-2018, 15:38
I use the 6.7 version as a wide angle on 8x10 and as a slightly longer lens on 5x7. Since it is single coated it should be a little less contrasty then the 6.3 version which is usually multi-coated. Therefore I expect the 6.7 version should be better for portraits. Also the 6.7 version has better coverage on 8x10.

Drew Wiley
29-Jan-2018, 18:54
They used some special glass type for the 6.7, perhaps containing an ingredient now banned. I dunno. But that lens has higher contrast than most multicoated plasmats of similar vintage. Great for color film too.

Alan Gales
30-Jan-2018, 22:52
They used some special glass type for the 6.7, perhaps containing an ingredient now banned. I dunno. But that lens has higher contrast than most multicoated plasmats of similar vintage. Great for color film too.

Maybe the ingredient is magic pixie dust?

Just kidding, but I like mine. They are a bargain! I've seen them go for $200 on Ebay. Jock Sturges used one for his early work.

xkaes
31-Jan-2018, 06:13
Back in the 1960's Minolta, Pentax, and others added rare-earth, radio-active elements, such as thorium and lanthanum, to some of their super-fast lenses (ex. 58mm f1.2) to increase the refractive index. It's possible that Fuji did some of this as well, but if they did, I'd be surprised -- but not shocked -- if the 250mm f6.7 was one of them.

ic-racer
31-Jan-2018, 09:24
I think you will be happier with the 6.7.
This is the list of 8x10 Fuji lenses I have tested, I'd recommend getting all of them! I think the market price of some of these have actually gone down in the last ten years since I started 8x10.

174257

Drew Wiley
31-Jan-2018, 10:45
The 6.7 had a somewhat yellowish color as I recall - not your usual glass. It is the one lens I've had stolen, so can't look at it now. I replaced it with a 240A, which is more convenient for backpacking and even sharper. But the 6.7 produced wonderful pictures, both color and b&w, conspicuously crisper and better textured from what my Symmar S did, which was no slouch itself.

xkaes
31-Jan-2018, 12:21
The 6.7 had a somewhat yellowish color as I recall - not your usual glass.

Yellowish glass is one of the symptoms of rare-earth glass -- so maybe the f6.7 has some.

It usually gets worse with age, but not everyone notices it, and fewer people report that it is a problem. I have a Minolta 58mm f1.2 MC ROKKOR, with rare-earth elements, but shows no yellowing after 40 years. In any case, it's pretty easy to "clear" the glass with exposure to UV light -- just don't let the lens get too hot!!. A web search will quickly turn up treatment methods. Fortunately, I've never need to use them.

Drew Wiley
31-Jan-2018, 13:58
It was that way brand new. No effect on the images. Fuji has always been pretty secretive. They had a friendly sales rep in this area, but he wasn't a tech type.

Chuck Pere
31-Jan-2018, 16:17
Here's an old data sheet on the f6.7 version. If it's readable it might help you.

Drew Wiley
31-Jan-2018, 19:00
Nothing there about glass. Just general brochure specs. 8X10 film is the realistic limit if movements are involved. Good samples of this very desirable lens are getting scarce. The word is out.

David Karp
31-Jan-2018, 19:18
I read somewhere that the 6.7 version was discontinued and then revived for a time by popular demand.

Drew Wiley
31-Jan-2018, 20:19
Hard to say. Fuji product lists were infamous for typos.

Eric Leppanen
31-Jan-2018, 22:29
I read somewhere that the 6.7 version was discontinued and then revived for a time by popular demand.
That was my recollection too, and after looking through a few Lynn Jones posts I found the following:

"This lens [Fuji 250 6.7] was discontinued (for a poorer version that was multicoated) and then brought back by popular demand. This fantastic lens is an 80 degree coverage conventional coating for 10x12 film size, 398mm coverage at infinity and f22. It was one of the most popular 8x10 lenses around. The list price in the late 1980's was $1,251.00, and well worth it. In those days, I wrote all the literature and catalogs.

The later multi coated 250 f 6.3 only covered 64 degrees or 312mm (ho hum). That is why we raised hell with Fuji to get the old f6.7 lens re-manufactured."

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?54957-Fuji-250mm-f6-7&p=521618&viewfull=1#post521618

Lynn worked for Fujinon or imported Fujinon lenses for awhile if I recall correctly.

xkaes
1-Feb-2018, 07:28
Hard to say. Fuji product lists were infamous for typos.

That's for sure, but I haven't seen any evidence in the Fuji literature -- even in a possible error -- that shows the f6.7 with an EBC coating. But that doesn't mean it could not have happened.

And keep in mind that a lens with EBC coating does not mean that all glass-to-air surfaces were EBC coated.

ic-racer
1-Feb-2018, 09:07
All my lenses circled in the D.O. Industries list posted in #10 above have the same golden reflections from the single coating. Much different from my newer Fujinon lenses with multicoating and magenta and green and blue reflections.
If there were 250 6.7 lenses with multicoating, it would be clearly obvious. If the multicoating were not obvious from examiniation of the lens or resulting images, the question of multicoating is irrelevant.

Sal Santamaura
1-Feb-2018, 10:34
...I haven't seen any evidence in the Fuji literature -- even in a possible error -- that shows the f6.7 with an EBC coating...That's because there never was one. :)

xkaes
1-Feb-2018, 11:19
If the multicoating were not obvious from examiniation of the lens or resulting images, the question of multicoating is irrelevant.

All of my Fujinon, Schneider, Mamiya, Rodenstock, and Minolta large format lenses are muti-coated, but many of the elements do not look multi-coated to my eye. So a multi-coated (an undefined term) lens may not appear to be so coated. It's not always perfectly obvious.

Drew Wiley
1-Feb-2018, 19:19
The 6.7 behaves as if it were MC, but Sal is right - it's not. Coatings are part of engineering, and what and how many is not a cut-and-dried proposition. G-Clarons were never MC either, and this was a deliberate decision long after multicoatings were routine. I once asked a Schneider engineer why it was the case with this particular lens series, and he replied that the lens was so well corrected already that there would be no real advantage. I assume that is also the case with the Fuji 6.7.

mdm
1-Feb-2018, 23:54
The 6.3 is a pretty darn flash lens. I use one on wholeplate, other than being slightly short on coverage sometimes, it is fantasticly nice. On 4x5 the 6.3 is ideal.

hiend61
6-Feb-2018, 13:01
I need a 240-250mm with more image circle than my Apo Ronar 240 and though about Fujinon because itīs more affordable than the other comparable brands. I want to use it with color film in 5x7. Which version should I buy, W, NW or CM?.

ic-racer
6-Feb-2018, 15:51
All of my Fujinon, Schneider, Mamiya, Rodenstock, and Minolta large format lenses are muti-coated, but many of the elements do not look multi-coated to my eye. So a multi-coated (an undefined term) lens may not appear to be so coated. It's not always perfectly obvious.

I suspect both of your Fuji lenses have the same coating if they look the same. If they have a gold color they are both single coated, in spite of what you may have read about them.

David Karp
6-Feb-2018, 15:55
"I need a 240-250mm with more image circle than my Apo Ronar 240 and though about Fujinon because itīs more affordable than the other comparable brands. I want to use it with color film in 5x7. Which version should I buy, W, NW or CM?."

If you want the largest image circle, you want the original f/6.7 version, which is marked "Fujinon W" on the front lens ring. You can compare the image circles of the different versions here: http://www.subclub.org/fujinon/byseries.htm. If you care about other factors, say multicoating, then the original version will not satisfy you. I have not used either of the newer versions, so cannot comment beyond saying I like my 250mm f/6.7 on a Whole Plate camera.

Drew Wiley
6-Feb-2018, 18:56
The 240A has just as much coverage as the W 6.7, and is even better corrected at close range. Tiny, and plenty bright for outdoor use. I've owned them both, and both are very good.

Drew Wiley
6-Feb-2018, 19:57
I should have clarified that. They have the same practical coverage stopped down to typical small working apertures. But open slightly, the 240A has a tad of mechanical vignetting due to the tiny no.0 shutter. Both easily cover 8X10.

hiend61
7-Feb-2018, 08:34
"I need a 240-250mm with more image circle than my Apo Ronar 240 and though about Fujinon because itīs more affordable than the other comparable brands. I want to use it with color film in 5x7. Which version should I buy, W, NW or CM?."

If you want the largest image circle, you want the original f/6.7 version, which is marked "Fujinon W" on the front lens ring. You can compare the image circles of the different versions here: http://www.subclub.org/fujinon/byseries.htm. If you care about other factors, say multicoating, then the original version will not satisfy you. I have not used either of the newer versions, so cannot comment beyond saying I like my 250mm f/6.7 on a Whole Plate camera.

Thanks for the link. 312 mm IC is enough for me for 5x7 use, so any of the versions would be OK. The question for me is if the f6,7 single coated version is good enough for color work. I have some Apo Ronars that are single coated and they work fine for me, but my experience with Fujinon is limited to two lenses I borrowed years ago. They were the latest multicoated versions of SW 105 and 125 mm, and they were superb.

hiend61
7-Feb-2018, 08:45
The 240A has just as much coverage as the W 6.7, and is even better corrected at close range. Tiny, and plenty bright for outdoor use. I've owned them both, and both are very good.

Thanks Drew for your advice. I allways listened that the A 240 is a superb lens, but I have a limited budget. The W f 6,7 version is the cheapest and the one with larger IC, but the question is if its good enough for color transparency work. The 398 mm IC is tempting....

David Karp
7-Feb-2018, 14:16
. . . The question for me is if the f6,7 single coated version is good enough for color work. . . .

Sorry, I can't help there. I shoot black and white.

Dan Fromm
7-Feb-2018, 14:30
Thanks Drew for your advice. I allways listened that the A 240 is a superb lens, but I have a limited budget. The W f 6,7 version is the cheapest and the one with larger IC, but the question is if its good enough for color transparency work. The 398 mm IC is tempting....

Pardon me for being an ignorant barbarian, but aren't all modern LF lenses fit for use with color reversal films? Please name one that isn't.

Drew Wiley
7-Feb-2018, 17:03
The 6.7 is superb for color. I've used it for numerous Cibachromes. But when I first got it, I thought it was not sufficiently corrected for wavelength alignment, because in one print of a high altitude sunset, there were two distinct adjacent lines parallel to the shape of a ridge in front, one orange, the other purple. But then high up Kauai, where the air is also extremely clear, I noticed this phenomena with my own eyes, then again over Comb Reef in Utah. It was at that point I realized just what a good lens this was, because none of my prior lenses had been able to record it!

Drew Wiley
7-Feb-2018, 17:07
As per the 240A, it's virtually apochromatic. So I wouldn't worry about any of the Fuji lenses under discussion with respect to color transparencies. But you do have to be concerned with the sheer contrast of Velvia in open sun. These are all contrasty lenses.

hiend61
8-Feb-2018, 14:53
Pardon me for being an ignorant barbarian, but aren't all modern LF lenses fit for use with color reversal films? Please name one that isn't.

OK Dan, youīre right, but you know that multi coated lenses can have a better behavior with flare and therefore a better color rendition. I own 3 single coated Apo Ronars that have superb color rendition, but they are apo lenses, not the case of the Fujinon. Anyway, I shade lenses very carefully, so I decided to go with the 6,7. I was offered one in very good condition for almost a bargain price, and the generous image circle is a temptation.

hiend61
8-Feb-2018, 15:25
Thanks for your comments Drew. They have given me the last kick to go for the 6,7. Iīm aware of the wild behavior of Fuji Velvia, but after more than 25 years together we know each other well. I have a reasonable Velvia 5x7 frozen stock.