shall i move ?

[sabamosiashvili]

for first thank you to let me join in this page! ! i have had many questions before and i found this page very helpful , with really nice photographers and greater people.
i have been shooting with film more than a year. all my film pictures are shoot with MF cameras.
as much time pasts as small amount of pictures i shoot. i become too critical about my pictures. but at all i love the way film works , it slows me down. i`m having fun with shooting and results are good too. i have always had passion to try something new, something better. so i think may be i can get on new stage?
right now i have hasselblad and it is pretty good one. i am having lot of fun with it. but as i said i want something new. i thought about getting 8x10 before but when i saw film prices , especially color ones, it was huge amount of money. sometime ago i saw some X-ray film photos and i really liked them. it is cheap , easy to use and also it has good results. so i am get back in my thoughts . shall i get 8x10? if i do i need to get 300mm lens (normal one) and camera itself but i am on budget there, i really dont know what to do. shall i sell my hassy to get 8x10 fully or wait some more time? shall i move on LF with X-rays? is it good to shoot X-ray? any experiences with it?
i hope you can help me with your advices.
best regards.
Saba.

[Leigh]

Hi Saba, and Welcome Aboard.

I generally do not recommend that anyone start in LF with an 8x10 camera.

They're large and expensive, with limited options for lenses and film.

You might try a 4x5 camera first. Many more lenses available from wide angle to telephoto.
You can always sell it if you want an 8x10 later.

- Leigh

[Pere Casals]

Hello Saba,

I'd also recommend starting with a 4x5. In LF it is common practice to develop each sheet with in a particular way, this is a resource not common with roll film, as you have to make a common development for all the roll. One can also develop all sheets in the same way... but custom development for each shot is a valued resource in LF, so while you learn that you will waste less film.

IMHO LF is cheaper than MF because you waste less film, when you shot you normally think twice.

With 4x5 you will learn easier about lenses, without wasting much money.

Then you can make the "mistake" to look through a 8x10 ground glass, this is a problem because it is fairly adictive... by when you make that "mistake" you should be very well informed about what kind of photography you are to make, what kind af glass you want and what camera you need. Can you start directly with 8x10 ? yes !! nothing wrong with it...

What's about image quality 4x5 is more than needed, IMHO, 8x10 is a clear overkill, but 8x10 has other aesthetical nature, using longuer focals.

I started with a cheap CAMBO SC 4x5, and a cheap Symmar 150mm convertible, single coated, unlimited movements to learn, and a competent glass. This was a cheap way to start. And that may not require you sell your hassy, for fome jobs the hassy is better.

You can start with xray film, but I'd start with a box common pictorial 4x5 film, you also can emulate xray tonality with color filters, and in the future you can go X.


I'd encourage you to engage.

Regards,
Pere

[Michael E]

Welcome, Saba.

I would like to suggest a cheap starting solution, but you sound like a perfectionalist, so you might not like this. In Georgia, you should be able to find a cheap russian 18x24cm wooden field camera with a barrel lens. Try this with x-ray film and, if you like it, move up to a Sinar with Schneider or Rodenstock lenses.

Personally, I prefer a small 4x5" field camera, because I can carry it all day. It only needs a small tripod, too.

Best,

Michael

[Pere Casals]

hmmm, wood !!! I use a FK 13x18cm (5x7") , with a lomo... from a 11x14 RX sheet you can cut four 5x7 sheets...

I love that camera, I use it with dry plates.

This is a cheap way to start, but it is also a very nice way to start...

[Michael E]

Here in Europe, x-ray film usually comes in metric sizes. 18x24cm is common, 8x10" hard to get.

[Pere Casals]

Here in Europe, x-ray film usually comes in metric sizes. 18x24cm is common, 8x10" hard to get.

yes, but ebay has plenty in every metric or imperial sizes...

[sabamosiashvili]

thank you guys, i think about 4x5 now. maybe LF is not what i really want and 4x5 must be easy and cheap way to experience.
have you shoot with X-ray? what can you say? is it good?

[Pfsor]

...
have you shoot with X-ray? what can you say? is it good?

Great! Especially the colours!

[neil poulsen]

Hi Saba, and Welcome Aboard.

I generally do not recommend that anyone start in LF with an 8x10 camera.

They're large and expensive, with limited options for lenses and film.

You might try a 4x5 camera first. Many more lenses available from wide angle to telephoto.
You can always sell it if you want an 8x10 later.

- Leigh

I think that this is good advice. Whatever 4x5 you might get, I would suggest one for which a wide angle bag bellows is available. That way, you're not limited on your choice of lenses.

[Pere Casals]

thank you guys, i think about 4x5 now. maybe LF is not what i really want and 4x5 must be easy and cheap way to experience.
have you shoot with X-ray? what can you say? is it good?

Here you have +4000 posts about xray film: http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?48099-Use-of-X-ray-film-technical-discussion-with-example-images&highlight=xray

Regarding tonality, a common situation is that x-ray is very green sensitive, way less blue sensitive and not red sensitive. In general special development has to be made to lower the contrast.

You can obtain similar tonality with proper filtering and common pictorial film, or taking a DSLR color image, zeroing red channel and lowering blue a lot.

We can consider x-ray film a defective pictorial film, but an artist can take advantage of those shortcomings in the creative way to obtain awesome results.

[Jim Graves]

Unless you are doing contact prints, it is crazy to start with 8x10. I shoot only 8x10 ... but only because I do carbon printing (contact printing.)

I started in large format with 4x5 ... if you want to do color, cropping, larger prints, or just lots of shooting and printing ... 4x5 is the only way to go. You have enormaous flexibility in lenses, films, and printing that you will not have in 8x10.

My photography has become severely limited since I moved to 8x10.

[John Kasaian]

thank you guys, i think about 4x5 now. maybe LF is not what i really want and 4x5 must be easy and cheap way to experience.
have you shoot with X-ray? what can you say? is it good?

The cheapest and easiest way to experience LF is with a home made pin hole camera with photo paper, some trays, chemicals, and a safe light.
I recommend 5x7 or the metric equivalent for your pin hole.
If that brings a smile to your face, a 4x5 camera could be your next step.
And so it goes.

[Alan Gales]

Do not sell your Hasselblad to buy a large format camera. Get into large format cheaply and see if you like it. Most of us don't keep our first large format camera. We learn what we like and don't like and then buy a camera that works best for us. Also, some people find that they don't care for sheet film. You have to load it in the dark, be careful of dust, carry film holders, etcetera.

I don't see anything wrong with starting out with 8x10 if that is what you truly want to do. If you are not sure then you are better off starting with 4x5. You will make a lot of mistakes at first. We all did. As you have found, 4x5 film is cheaper than 8x10 film so those mistakes will be less costly on 4x5.

Shoot with a large format camera for several months or a year even and then you will know if you want to keep or sell the Hasselblad. You may find medium and large format both have a place for you!

[Carol C]

I bought the toyo GX 4x5 many year because you could upgrade it by buyng the 8x10 back.

[Jim Andrada]

Or start with 5 x 7 and have the best of both worlds???

[Charles S]

Saba,

Like you, I shot with a Blad before going to 8x10.
Started off with a camera made out of plywood and a cheap lens. A bit like this one: https://carynorton.com/blogarchive/2012/09/06/diy-8x10-camera-for-15-bucks-sort-of
I shot on paper to try it out. Once I decided I liked it, I bought a cheap 8x10 on eBay, a convertible Symmar lens and started shooting on Foma 400. The imperfections are part of the charm.
I choose 8x10 over 4x5 so that I could use Impossible film and in case I would shoot regular film, I could make contact prints. Th eImpossible bit, I have given up on. The regular film bit is giving me a lot of enjoyment.

The Blad still sees the same amount of use as before.

[andrewch59]

Saba, I started out with a 10x12 vageeswari camera, and xray film. I quickly bought a second hand horseman FA45 and was happy with the loss of luggage I needed to carry. 4x5 lenses are a few kilo's lighter than that needed for 10x12. I now use a Shen Hao 4x5 and leave the big cameras in the studio where they belong. I have never shot proper sheet film in the three years I have taken up large format and still love my xray film. I buy a box of 8x10 xray film, about $60 for a box of 100, then use a paper cutter in the darkroom to cut each sheet into four 4x5. Cheap as chips, and it is a lot cheaper in developer too. I would warn you though xray is delicate to handle and scratches very easily

[Courtlux]

Fomapan 100 ! 50 sheets 4X5 30 € ! 8X10 50 sheets 120 € ! Super Film with Rodinal 1:50

[John Kasaian]

What subjects do you like to shoot?
If an 8x10 won't hold you back on account of the cost, weight and size, you might consider an 8x10 camera with a second back in 4x5 or 5x7 for enlargements/color. You can even find 8x10s with sliders for panoramas.

[andrewch59]

Fomapan 100 ! 50 sheets 4X5 30 € ! 8X10 50 sheets 120 € ! Super Film with Rodinal 1:50

$60 au for 400 sheets of 4x5 (38 euro), Ro9 1:125

[Leonard Alecu]

If you are serious with LF, my advice is to go directly to 8x10. The best film is Kodak TMY2. Find a Kodak Master View camera.

[A Almulla]

I'm new, like very new to LF so my advice is limited. However I've noticed many who shoot 8x10 also have 4x5.

Even though I am allured I started with 8x10, I'll start with 4x5 and decide later if I'll move up.

[angusparker]

Start with 4x5, learn the technique, take the camera around to shoot different subjects. 8x10 is really about contact printing as the film plane is not as flat as 4x5 so for most enlarged images (or scanned) 4x5 is better, plus who still has an 8x10 enlarger? 4x5 cameras and film are not only cheaper but the lenses choices are much wider and less pricey.

As most LF equipment can be sold for roughly the same price it was bought for, start with 4x5 and if you want to upgrade or add an 8x10 you can always do it later.


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