Cooke Portrait Lens Serial Numbers [Archive] - Large Format Photography Forum

View Full Version : Cooke Portrait Lens Serial Numbers

karl french

4-Jan-2018, 15:13

Is anyone keeping a database of Cooke Portrait Anastigmat (i.e. with soft focus adjustment) lens serial numbers? I just picked up a 12.75" IIB and thought it would be interesting to start compiling serial numbers for Series I, II, & VI. Just in the last week I've been able to gather over 100 lenses worth of data and start to see some year/serial number connection.

Does anyone know when the transition from non-knuckler to knuckler started in terms of serial numbers? (1924 in terms of date, I know) I'm guessing somewhere around 115,XXX.
I'm also trying to establish the earliest serial number for each series since there is a fairly good sense of what year each series started.

I have a copy of the Lens Collectors Vade Mecum and I've checked various soft focus lens resources online (i.e. antiquecameras.net.) I'm putting together a Google sheet so that folks can add their lens series and serial numbers to the database if they like.

Steven Tribe

4-Jan-2018, 16:10

I am not certain that there was an abrupt change from barrel to knuckler versions. There must have been a market for the significantly lighter early versions. There were a quite a large number of totally french language engraved Cookes sold through the Paris agent.

karl french

4-Jan-2018, 16:27

Yes, mine has the French engraving. I feel like I've seen at least one with German engraving as well.

114165 is a non-knuckler II/14.5"
116354 is a knuckler II/10.5"

Tin Can

4-Jan-2018, 17:25

No French on either

125439 Series II 10-1/2 inch f4.5 Knuckle
56973 Series II 14-1/2 inch f4.5 No Knuckle

I am interested in dates and the file.

Thanks!

karl french

4-Jan-2018, 17:32

Excellent. Thank you. Neither of those were on my list.

Jim Fitzgerald

4-Jan-2018, 18:46

My 15" Series II F4.5 Knuckler which is for sale has a serial number of 119743.

karl french

4-Jan-2018, 18:48

Thanks Jim. I added that to the list the yesterday when I saw your for sale post. Seems like Cooke might have abandoned the 14.5" focal length in favor of the 15" when they switched to the knuckler for soft focus adjustment.

Jim Galli

4-Jan-2018, 20:17

karl french

4-Jan-2018, 20:38

Jim G, Lol. What a terrible problem to have. Yes, IIE 503942 is definitely the highest number on my list. Nice to have markers on both ends of the spectrum

jaytral

4-Jan-2018, 23:31

19343 Serie II 13in 8x10 f4.5 with rear thread spacing
26448 Serie VI 13.1in 8x10 f5.6

Steven Tribe

5-Jan-2018, 03:14

382815 IIE post WWII coated 270mm.
24809 VI 13.1". "New York". "Revolve for Soft Focus" . Round knob iris and SF control.
NO SERIAL NUMBER (sorry)."New York". No softness scale. F4.5 Series II. 10.4.

karl french

5-Jan-2018, 08:27

Thanks. I didn't have one of these Series VI/13" on my list.

Amedeus

5-Jan-2018, 11:10

24768 for a Series VI, 18.4" f5.6 non-knuckler, has two ball shaped handles to adjust aperture and SF ring.

I have 4 more that I need to pull out of storage ... still in moving mode ...

Cheers,

Leonard Robertson

5-Jan-2018, 11:36

From the front ring of my 13" knuckler: "Taylor-Hobson Cooke Portrait Anastigmat 13inch SeriesVI f5.6 No156800".

Any idea of the approximate year of manufacture?

Len

karl french

5-Jan-2018, 11:43

Ah, great. Didn't have that VI/13" knuckler. As for year, I'd guess around 1926-27. The IIB started in 1926 and the earliest IIB I have on the list so far is 155640. Quite close to your VI/13".

Mark Sawyer

5-Jan-2018, 14:10

Mine run the gamut and perhaps span 60+ years. I have No. 3262 13" Series II, with rear thread spacing, 125357 is a 15 1/2" Series VI, #186545 is my latest and may be on your list having just exited Ebay recently, it is 13" Series VI, and last and newest is Series IIE 503942 12 3/4" factory single coated and I believe from about 1957. All are spectacular, but you did not need me to tell you that. So I'll claim oldest and newest until someone bumps me.

Oops. Forgot the big 18" Series VI upstairs. I'll get that number shortly. Pretty bad when you forget how many Cooke's you have.

Jim, I must say I'm really disappointed in you! You're hoarding FIVE of these fine lenses, when so many others want them? One is fine, two is acceptable, three or four is getting greedy, but five is just being decadent. You should be ashamed of yourself!

Anyways, here are mine:

13-inch Series II f/4.5 Pre-Knuckler, 54639
14.5-inch Series II f/4.5 Pre-Knuckler, 90752
16-inch Series II f/4.5 Pre-Knuckler, 31266 (coated & finished in black by Burke & James)
10.5-inch Series II f/4.5 Knuckler, 122514
12.5-inch Series IIA f/3.5 Knuckler, 195357
15.5-inch Series VIA f/5.6 Knuckler, 232440

:rolleyes:

Jim Galli

5-Jan-2018, 14:15

Jim, I must say I'm really disappointed in you! You're hoarding FIVE of these fine lenses, when so many others want them? One is fine, two is acceptable, three or four is getting greedy, but five is just being decadent. You should be ashamed of yourself!

Anyways, here are mine:

13-inch Series II f/4.5 Pre-Knuckler, 54639
14.5-inch Series II f/4.5 Pre-Knuckler, 90752
16-inch Series II f/4.5 Pre-Knuckler, 31266 (coated & finished in black by Burke & James)
10.5-inch Series II f/4.5 Knuckler, 122514
12.5-inch Series IIA f/3.5 Knuckler, 195357
15.5-inch Series VIA f/5.6 Knuckler, 232440

:rolleyes:

I'm so ashamed. Anyways, my 18" Series VI knuckler is no. 202020. Better late than never.

Mark Sawyer

5-Jan-2018, 14:45

I'm so ashamed...

Oh, I'm sure! :)

BTW, for comparison purposes, my 18-inch Cooke Achromatic Portrait Lens (a descendant of the Cooke RV/RVP) is no. 17324.

Jim Galli

5-Jan-2018, 15:07

Oh, I'm sure! :)

BTW, for comparison purposes, my 18-inch Cooke Achromatic Portrait Lens (a descendant of the Cooke RV/RVP) is no. 17324.

Now you're just braggin'. Nobody asked about Achromatic Portrait lenses (which I have zero :( )

gtoffoli

5-Jan-2018, 15:27

In the next days I can tell you mine serie II and VI.

Inviato dal mio iPhone utilizzando Tapatalk

karl french

5-Jan-2018, 15:39

I am interested in context. Lol. (I've been following some other random Cooke lenses that are around these numbers, just to see if I can get a sense of production lots and dates of known series. We know that Series XIV & XV Convertible were introduced in 1933-34. I added the serial numbers of my 13" & 16.5 Series XIV on a sidebar.)

Mark, thanks for those numbers. I suspect Series I and Series VIA will be the most uncommon. 282483 is also a 15.5 VIA, so I suspect they must have been making them in small lots.
Jim, is that 18" VI knuckler black? I had that on the list,just want to confirm the black paint.

I'm tracking non-English engraving, black paint and B&J lenses as part of the database.

Jim Galli

5-Jan-2018, 15:48

Jim, is that 18" VI knuckler black? I had that on the list,just want to confirm the black paint.

I'm tracking non-English engraving, black paint and B&J lenses as part of the database.

Yes, it is black and bears the Burke and James sticker and also is coated most assumably, by them.
http://tonopahpictures.0catch.com/CookeOptics/18Cookeiv_0.jpg

karl french

5-Jan-2018, 16:07

Thanks. As much as I love the lacquered brass, a clean black paint example like this is pretty.

Not that far from Tri Tran's monster IID 27". Both probably from 1931.

Mark Sawyer

5-Jan-2018, 16:08

Now you're just braggin'...

Yes, I am! :o

ghostcount

5-Jan-2018, 16:43

Yes, it is black and bears the Burke and James sticker and also is coated most assumably, by them.
http://tonopahpictures.0catch.com/CookeOptics/18Cookeiv_0.jpg

Giggity, giggity, goo!

Emil Schildt

7-Jan-2018, 04:04

I have two:

14 1/2 " Series II (soft focus stuck)

serial 82518

12" Series IIa 3.5 pre knuckler

serial: 50142

karl french

7-Jan-2018, 08:57

Great. I didn't have the 14.5" Series II on my list. Thanks.

Len Middleton

7-Jan-2018, 09:18

Jim, I must say I'm really disappointed in you! You're hoarding FIVE of these fine lenses, when so many others want them? One is fine, two is acceptable, three or four is getting greedy, but five is just being decadent. You should be ashamed of yourself!

Anyways, here are mine:

13-inch Series II f/4.5 Pre-Knuckler, 54639
14.5-inch Series II f/4.5 Pre-Knuckler, 90752
16-inch Series II f/4.5 Pre-Knuckler, 31266 (coated & finished in black by Burke & James)
10.5-inch Series II f/4.5 Knuckler, 122514
12.5-inch Series IIA f/3.5 Knuckler, 195357
15.5-inch Series VIA f/5.6 Knuckler, 232440

:rolleyes:

Mark,
It looks like you shamed Jim enough that he is thinning his Cooke herd...

Karl,
You can add my " Cooke Portrait Anastigmat No. 309252 12 3/4" 325mm Series IIE f/4.5" Knuckler to your database.

karl french

7-Jan-2018, 13:52

Excellent. Thanks.

William Whitaker

7-Jan-2018, 17:39

Karl,
My IIA is a non-knuckler marked 270mm. The only numerical notation is "Nº 46341" which I assume is a serial number as there are no other markings which look anything like a serial number. All other notations are in French except the front fascia.

Another much smaller lens is marked 8 INCH SERIES II COOKE ANASTIGMAT LENS 5X7 inches Nº 28663. This lens has no diffusion control and is physically much smaller than the IIA or another Cooke Portrait I once had (which, I think, was a IIB). This one is about 3 inches, end-to-end.
173442
Series II 8-inch f/4.5

173502 173503
Series IIa f/3.5

That's it for Series II lenses. But it's interesting to note that I have 3 other Cooke lenses: a Series XIV, a Series XV (the old one, not the redux) and an Aviar. Those three ALL came to me from Jim Galli at one time or another. It's quite possible that Jim has forgotten about more Cookes than the rest of us have owned!
LOL! :D

Tin Can

7-Jan-2018, 17:53

Nice Will,

I wish we all presented pics of the lens on the forum and not embeds. I’m guilty of embeds now. :(

karl french

7-Jan-2018, 18:22

Will, thanks for those. That's the earliest 10.5" IIA I have on the list. Most of the early IIA lenses are 12" so far.

Jim Galli

8-Jan-2018, 23:20

Karl, when do we get to see your work?

thegreatcornholio

9-Jan-2018, 00:25

Mine is a IIE 15" f4.5 Knuckler S/N 221188

karl french

9-Jan-2018, 07:49

Here is a link to the Google sheet:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Zan_PR-3rcPkejlblOhAjLPdZQ_saO3HLEG2a-dmsKc/edit?usp=sharing

I'm curious as to the earliest IIE serial number. Tri's (former?) 27" IID f4.5 falls before what I would have expected for the start of IIE & IID.

It's a small start and definitely a work in progress.

Thanks for all your serial/series numbers.

fabphoto73

9-Jan-2018, 08:42

Mine is a IIE 12.75" f4.5 Knuckler S/N 219569

Steven Tribe

9-Jan-2018, 15:38

The spreadsheet includes the IIC model, which was called the "home portraiture" lens. This did not have the soft adjustment through movement of the central lens. All versions after a specific serial number (I think the approx no. is in Lens VM) are coated. Apart from B & J's conversions, there are other earlier serial numbers which were coated post WW2 by their loving owners!

karl french

9-Jan-2018, 17:10

Yes, the IIC is an odd bird. I suspect there are not that many out there. Why would anyone buy a IIC rather than an Aviar in the same focal length? The 13.5" Aviar was a more expensive and the 15" focal length was not available as a series II. I included it in spite of no diffusion control based on the fact that Cooke called it a "Portrait Anastigmat" and it was marketed along side the IIB.

Yes, I suspect all post-war examples are coated.

Amedeus

9-Jan-2018, 17:44

Adding two more of mine to the list

Series VI, 13", f5.6, knuckler, #202,102

Series VI, 13", f5.6, no-knuckler, #107,598

Two more Cooke Portrait lenses in storage somewhere ...

Also interesting to see that the two Series VI, 18.4" f5.6 are only two numbers apart ... 24768 and 24770 ... possibly only one small series ?

Cheers,

russyoung

10-Jan-2018, 14:38

Jim Galli

10-Jan-2018, 14:45

Series II 13" #110957

Series IIb 10.5" #210835

Series VI 13" #36788

Series VI 16" #56763

Series VI 16" #56764

Have two others in a queue at a machinist's, will report on them when they are eventually returned.

cheerio,

Russ Young

Which begs the question Russ, how did you end up with 2 consecutive serial numbers? 8X10 stereo camera? I have 2 Series XV that are 2 numbers apart, and Will Whitaker has the one in the middle. Still, it seems like it would be a rarity unless they were sold to same person same day, which my 2 XV's definitely were not.

karl french

10-Jan-2018, 16:20

Russ, thank you for those numbers. All new to the list.

russyoung

11-Jan-2018, 05:31

Which begs the question Russ, how did you end up with 2 consecutive serial numbers? 8X10 stereo camera? I have 2 Series XV that are 2 numbers apart, and Will Whitaker has the one in the middle. Still, it seems like it would be a rarity unless they were sold to same person same day, which my 2 XV's definitely were not.

Jim, they were acquired about 25 years apart. Even a blind hog finds an acorn once in a while.

William Whitaker

11-Jan-2018, 07:40

...I have 2 Series XV that are 2 numbers apart, and Will Whitaker has the one in the middle.

Just glad to be at the party! :)

coisasdavida

12-Jan-2018, 02:20

Cooke Series II 8 1/2 x 6 1/2 inches - eq. focus 10.4in (non-knuckler, soft focus in the front)
marked "J.C.Ramsey and Co. Toronto / Sole consignee in Canada"
Serial Number: 26926, researched it to be probably from 1915/1916

karl french

12-Jan-2018, 08:11

Thanks for that number. I would guess it's even earlier than 1915, maybe 1910/1911.

gtoffoli

12-Jan-2018, 14:59

My Series II, 13" (330 m/m) , no-knuckler, #29908 Soft Focus with engrave:" Sole consignees for Italy Lamperti & Garbagnati "

gtoffoli

12-Jan-2018, 15:02

My Series II, 8" f/4,5 Cooke Anastigmat lens #56339 No soft focus

gtoffoli

12-Jan-2018, 15:05

My Series VI, 13" f/5,6 knuckler, #203025

ScottPhotoCo

15-Jan-2018, 17:58

Two for you:

Cooke Portrait Lens – 13"
Series VI f 5.6 Soft Focus (non-knuckler)
Taylor, Taylor & Hobson
Leicester, London & New York
#21621

Cooke Portrait Lens – 10.5"
Series II f 4.5 Soft Focus (non-knuckler)
Taylor, Taylor & Hobson
Leicester & London
#103690

karl french

16-Jan-2018, 09:28

Excellent. Thanks for those numbers.

Hugo Zhang

24-Jan-2018, 20:48

Here are few I have:

Cooke Anastigmat lens Series IIA 190mm f/3.5 No. 216642
10 1/2 inch Cooke Portrait lens f/3.5 Series IIA No. 106447
Cooke Portrait Anastigmat 15 inch Series IIB f/4.5 No. 200543

I also have a 165mm f/2.5 lens which sits on a Graflex model c 3x4 camera

DG 3313

24-Jan-2018, 21:40

Mine is a TTH Series II, 6" F-4.5 #36883

brandon13

27-Jan-2018, 09:20

15 inch 4.5 Series IIB Knuckler No. 172270
18 inch 5.6 Series VI Soft focus 15x12" No. 24770

Amedeus

27-Jan-2018, 10:28

Brandon,

Is your 18" labeled 18.4" by any chance ?

Thanks !

15 inch 4.5 Series IIB Knuckler No. 172270
18 inch 5.6 Series VI Soft focus 15x12" No. 24770

karl french

27-Jan-2018, 17:06

Thanks for those numbers. I did have that 18" series VI. Marked 18.4 on my list.

brandon13

28-Jan-2018, 13:52

I guess Karl answered that for you Rudi.
Brandon,

Is your 18" labeled 18.4" by any chance ?

Thanks !

thomas ciulei

9-Feb-2018, 01:58

II E, no 217178 15 inch 380mm knuckler with french engraving "flou artistique"

karl french

9-Feb-2018, 07:46

Great. Didn't have that one. Thanks.

Mark Sawyer

9-Feb-2018, 09:02

241743, a 12 3/4-inch f/4.5 knuckler.

karl french

9-Feb-2018, 09:53

Great. That's a IIE, correct?

mainstreetprod

9-Feb-2018, 17:34

I'm new to the forum, here because I'm researching a Graflex "Century Master Studio" camera (with stand by the same name) I bought today at an estate sale. I believe it was made around 1900. I'm more into motion pictures so not too familiar with still cameras of this era.

The shutter is an Ilexpo by Ilex optical. The lens is a brass "Taylor Hobson Cooke" Portrait Anastigmat, Series VI, F 5.6 "knuckler", serial number 126951, very good condition. The focal length is 22 inch. That's not a misprint- I'm unable to find (so far) any evidence this focal length was ever made. Can anyone shed some light on this lens and it's value?
174545

Jim Galli

9-Feb-2018, 17:58

Beautiful things in your home. That's a wonderful camera and find. Cooke made some extension lenses, so you may have the extension lens front end on what began as a 18" f4.5 someone else may have catalogs and know more about it than I do. Most of the extension lenses were for Series III and Series V. What back does it have on it? Are you going to use it? Are you near me so I can come and talk you out of it:~'))

mainstreetprod

9-Feb-2018, 18:42

Jim,

The camera will be strictly for display. I think it may have been displayed for years in a Nashville commercial building that was demolished recently, according to the seller. I wouldn't be surprised if before that it was used by a downtown Nashville photographer in the early 1900's. If the lens has a value on the higher end, such as I've seen on some of the 15" and 18" soft focus lenses, I may sell it and replace with something that just looks the part.

Fred

karl french

9-Feb-2018, 18:48

Wow! Interesting. Does it actually say "22 inch" on the front of the lens? It seems Cooke was willing to take on custom orders. For example the 27" Series IID made in 1931.

mainstreetprod

9-Feb-2018, 19:00

Yes, it actually says 22 inch. Does that mean it is definitely a custom order? Also, does the fact that it is a 'knuckler" mean it is post 1924?174549

karl french

9-Feb-2018, 20:23

The lens Vademecum does mention a 22" Portrait Anastigmat Series VI introduced in 1926, but I don't have a reference in the Cooke catalogs I have access to. 1926 sounds about right in terms of serial number. This is a rare lens. Even the 18" Series VI lenses are fairly uncommon.

lucaas

10-Feb-2018, 05:46

Hi Karl,

This is a page from Cooke 1926 catalog. It did mention 22" Series VI and it was made to order only.
174567

karl french

10-Feb-2018, 07:53

Interesting indeed. And a 20" Series IIB listed. Haven't seen one of those yet. This also makes me think the IIB starts earlier in terms of serial numbers than I thought. So far the earliest IIB I have is in the 155,XXX range. The above mentioned 22" VI being in the 126,XXX range makes for the possibility of many IIB lenses between those two. Though the big 27" IID has a serial number earlier than I would have expected for 1931.

lucaas

10-Feb-2018, 16:57

I have a 15" IIb with knuckler which serial number is 139736.
Other Cooke portrait lenses I have
26119 13.1" series II with turn the barrel soft focus
159898 12 3/4" IIb with the knuckler
168273 12 3/4" IIc without soft focus

karl french

10-Feb-2018, 18:41

Great. Didn't have any of those on my list. And that is currently the earliest IIB I have. Nice to see that both 159898 & 159899 are still in existence.

michael_los_angeles_photo

11-Feb-2018, 15:20

I have a pre-knuckler 16” f/4.5 Series II, which as I’m scrolling through some of the posts I notice is one digit up from Mark Sawyer’s. Serial number is 31267. Mine is brass, not black. Any idea of the year?

karl french

11-Feb-2018, 18:10

Great. Didn't have that one. I'd guess 1911-1913 in terms of production year.

brett_jurgens

17-Jun-2018, 00:47

Late to the game but an interesting late night read. Why try to count sheep when you can count lens serial numbers? I have a 16" Series 11 serial 49206- non knuckler in brass. Purchased it from a photographer who found it in the attic of a studio he bought out in Omaha.

andrewch59

17-Jun-2018, 02:15

cooke ser IIa 15inch F3.5 Knuckler ser no: 126948 research by previous owner shows it was purchased in NY 1926
ser II 14.5inch f4.5 ser no: 69607

karl french

17-Jun-2018, 09:31

Great. Thanks. I didn't have those numbers on my list and the date confirmation is an extra bonus.

brett_jurgens

17-Jun-2018, 12:24

In the thread you spoke some of non portrait Cooke serial numbers. I have a rapid rectilinear marked "Taylor Taylor & Hobson Leicester". No 2643. 15x12 R.R. EQ. FOC. 18.06 IN. Does any one else have one of their Rrs? There is not much online about them. Somewhere I had read that Taylor restarted their serial numbers around 1890, and that this may be from the first set.

peter brooks

30-Jul-2018, 12:11

Great thread. I've just become the proud owner of serial no. 109422 (already on your list), a Series II 10.5 inch f4.5.

It was being sold without a flange - as I umm'd and aah'd about pushing the button what should come up on ebay but a 'LARGE ALUMINIUM LENS MOUNTING FLANGE - 70mm INSIDE DIAMETER - COOKE TAYLOR HOBBS' (sic). Serendipity indeed, a 2.75 inch flange!

Query - is there any problem using an aluminium flange with a brass lens? I'm aware of the perils of galvanic action but the internet also counters this with 'it would have to be wet and salty for it to be a problem'. Anyone have long term experience of using an aluminium flange with a brass lens?

Marc_Andrew

30-Jul-2018, 14:09

I have a Cooke Series VI 18" 5.6 knuckler - Serial 197590

drewf64

30-Jul-2018, 15:51

Very interesting thread !

I am the new owner of a:
Engraved "Taylor-Hobson Cooke Portrait Anastigmat"
12 3/4 inch
Knuckler
f4.5
Brass
Engraved "Made in England"
Serial # 116334
Engraved " Sharp Soft Focus 1 2 3 "
Purchased in an antique shop at the New Jersey Shore.

peter brooks

3-Aug-2018, 13:16

71780, a Series II 10.5 inch f4.5 is on UK / European ebay at the moment (from France). Very similar to mine but it has the normal TTH engraving (mine doesn't - any ideas? - see my separate thread), and the aperture numbers go in the opposite direction!

karl french

3-Aug-2018, 15:07

Thanks for those numbers. That's the earliest knuckler on my list so far.

Peter, it's hard to say what the story is with the no engraving thing with your lens barrel. There are a lot of minor variations on the lenses through the production run. Sort of like why/when did the II.B. vs IIB labeling change?

Amedeus

13-Aug-2018, 11:37

I just picked up a similar age Series II 10.5" f4.5 with serial 70403.

No graduations on the Soft/Sharp scale but the barrel turns well 1.5 turns between stops, different design than my other no-knucklers on the mechanical front.

Cheers

71780, a Series II 10.5 inch f4.5 is on UK / European ebay at the moment (from France). Very similar to mine but it has the normal TTH engraving (mine doesn't - any ideas? - see my separate thread), and the aperture numbers go in the opposite direction!

Amedeus

29-Aug-2018, 13:53

Cooke IIA, 12.5", f3.5, serial 97957, no-knuckler and soft focus mechanism is of the push/pull variety

Cheers,

fabphoto73

4-Sep-2018, 05:29

Early Cooke Portrait Series II 8 1/2 x 6 1/2 inches Eq. Focus 13 inches Serial No. 15025 'unscrew three turns for sharpest definition' (rear element)

karl french

4-Sep-2018, 09:03

Photoplasia

6-Sep-2018, 08:47

Just acquired this lens - Cooke Anastigmat Lens 8x10 inches f5.6 No. 18921 13 inch Series IV

Amedeus

6-Sep-2018, 12:37

Great. Thanks. Didn't have 15025 and I noted that 97957 is a push/pull lens. Push/pull seems to be one of the more uncommon variations of these lenses considering how infrequently they are seen on the market. Lots of turn the rear element, rotate barrel and knucklers out there.

I should have noted for 97957, push-pull for soft/sharp respectively and rotate the barrel for aperture ... the first one ever I see that way.

Rudi

Marco Ferrarini

13-Sep-2018, 00:17

Thank you for starting this post. I've been trying to figure out what I have here for some time. There is no series designation nor focal length indicated but I would guess around 13" from projecting a window image against the opposite wall. F4.5 is the widest aperture. The soft focus adjustment is at the rear, two arrows and "unscrew three turns for sharpest definition" very faintly engraved (must be a chore to keep detaching the lens from the camera to achieve the desired definition). On the barrel is engraved "Cooke Portrait Lens H D Taylor's patents, May 28 1895 Sept 22 1896, Taylor Taylor & Hobson Ltd, New York Leicester & London, No 13647.
What's the vintage of this beast?

peter brooks

18-Sep-2018, 12:00

120574 is on your list already but is not noted as being a knuckler - it is a knuckler, it's on UK / Europe ebay at the moment on sale from Germany.

(Unless someone has added the knuckles of course, note that the seller says 'Everybody knows the Knuckler version of this lens with its skyrocketing prices on the market' :eek: Only joking - I think...)

karl french

18-Sep-2018, 18:51

Yes, I just added that one. I've stopped indicating knucklers on the list after 116,000 (or so) range, as I assume every lens after the earliest knuckler I have will also have them. It would be interesting to find an non-knuckler out of sequence and the earliest knuckler.

karl french

18-Sep-2018, 19:02

Marco, I'd guess 13647 was produced sometime shortly after the turn of the century. (1904? maybe)

peter brooks

7-Jan-2019, 12:45

Serial number I think is 28861 but someone best check...

Series II f4.5 407mm (~16")
Agents Generaux pour la Republique Argentine
Rossi & Lavarallo
Buenos Airies

Looks like engraving in Spanish for the softness adjustment.

UK/Europe ebay item number 264058589496 (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Lens-Brass-Cooke-Portrait-4-5-407mm-Series-II/264058589496)

Quite a price eh? (I have no association with the item, nor will I have :) ).

peter brooks

7-Jan-2019, 13:51

Another... Serial number 12828 'Unscrew three turns for sharpest definition' Series II f4.5 Equiv focus 8"

UK/Europe ebay item number (completed item) 192759293486 (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Early-Taylor-Hobson-cooke-portrait-Brass-Lens-200mm-f4-5-Soft-Focus-Wet-Plate-/192759293486)

karl french

8-Jan-2019, 07:49

Thanks. I didn't have 12828 on my list and I noted the French engraving on 28851.

peter brooks

12-Oct-2019, 12:54

Series II f4.5 10.5" serial number 76965 Europe ebay 202782469378 (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TAYLOR-HOBSON-COOKE-ANASTIGMAT-10-1-2-Inch-f-4-5-SERIES-II-SOFT-FOCUS-266mm/202782469378) (I have no association with the item).

Tin Can

12-Oct-2019, 13:14

Same one FS in NA

karl french

12-Oct-2019, 15:55

Didn't have that one. Thanks.

peter brooks

7-Nov-2019, 13:18

Another Series II f4.5 10.5" - serial number 21090 Europe ebay 223738403128 (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TTH-Cooke-Portrait-Series-II-f4-5-10-5in-Soft-Focus-Taylor-Hobson-large-format/223738403128) (again, I have no association with the item).

Nice Moroccan leather front cap. Leather case.

peter brooks

7-Nov-2019, 13:27

Oh, and 23348, a Series IIA F3.5 12.1 inch Europe ebay 392497975443 (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TAYLOR-HOBSON-Cooke-Portrait-brass-lens-Messing-Series-II-A-F3-5-307mm-121-top/392497975443)

French lettering to the softness adjustment.

(Needless to say, nothing to do with me... if it was mine I wouldn't sell it :) )

karl french

7-Nov-2019, 19:37

Thanks. So far that is the earliest IIA on my list.

cbella

17-Jan-2020, 09:58

Karl just saw this thread and late to the party. I have Series VI 13"/f5.6, S/N 28447.

peter brooks

1-Feb-2020, 12:43

Series II f4.5 13" serial number 73116 Europe ebay 133310987731 (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Taylor-Hobson-Cooke-13-f4-5-Series-II-Anastigmat-Soft-Focus-10x8-Portrait-Lens/133310987731) (I have no association with the item).

peter brooks

3-Apr-2020, 12:00

Series II f4.5 15" serial number 123532 - a knuckler. Ha ha ha, £4k on european ebay - mind you, for that you get fungus on the front element thrown in for free... :)

Hugo Zhang

11-May-2020, 16:34

Not sure Cooke XIV is considered a portrait lens or not. But here is a 21 inch with serial number: 221625. I do like its look on my 16x20 ground glass. :)

peter brooks

14-May-2020, 12:41

Series II f4.5 13" serial number 93722

peter brooks

11-Jun-2020, 12:05

This one is already in the list (a 12 1/4" IIB, serial 201419) but it was the price that caught my eye - located in Argentina it is listed on ebay for EUR 290,000 - that's around GBP 260,000 or USD 328,000.

Wow, these have really gone up in value! Just don't hit the 'Buy It Now' button... :rolleyes:

ebay item 223509226786 (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Taylor-Hobson-Cooke-Portrait-IIB-Anastigmat-Brass-Lens-12-1-4-inch-325mm-F4-5/223509226786)

Tin Can

11-Jun-2020, 13:16

but the crazy price, got us to look at his other lenses

and the $$$$$ is best offer

Free advertising

Ron (Netherlands)

12-Jun-2020, 05:56

peter brooks

28-Jun-2020, 11:18

Series II f4.5 12.75" serial number 125338 - a knuckler.

mhayashi

29-Nov-2020, 04:39

My lenses
Series II portrait anastigmat 15” f4.5 knuckler #123527
210003
Series IIE portrait anastigmat 325mm f4.5 knuckler #241747
210004

The cooke lenses found in the current yahoo japan auctions are:
Series IIA portrait anastigmat 10.5” f3.5 #104738 non knuckler
210005
Series II portrait anastigmat 13” f4.5 #90741 non knuckler
210006

oilfree

7-Jun-2021, 11:36

Series IIB portrait anastigmat 12 3/4” f4.5 knuckler #190383

Hugo Zhang

3-Sep-2021, 15:16

mhayashi

3-Sep-2021, 16:04

A question for those of you in the know: I have just got a 12 1/2" Cooke iia lens with words "PATENT No. 155640" engraved on its barrel. I have never seen the word PATENT on my other Cooke lenses. When I unscrewed the rear element off, there is number written inside the barrel: 38247.

These two numbers are quite far away from each other. Which on is right? Any idea which year the lens was made? It was black lacquered.

I’m skeptical if the serial number is the one on the barrel. it sounds too low number….
Maybe another number somewhere else on the barrel??
Patent no. Is simply itself.
Taylor hobson cooke took the patent in UK, 1920.
https://patents.google.com/patent/GB155640A/en
https://worldwide.espacenet.com/patent/search/family/010193187/publication/GB155640A?q=pn%3DGB155640A
https://worldwide.espacenet.com/patent/original-document?channel=espacenet_channel-b07ae999-53c5-47a8-942b-9bff73b4a67e

According to the cooke compendium, Series IIa portric f3.5 was made circa 1909 to 1930.

https://www.cookeoptics.com/t/compendium.html

Your sample is engraved with the patent number, so that narrows down the lens was made in between 1920 and 1930. The knuckler handle was added in early 1920’s. If your sample has the knuckler, that means it’s after that.

Your sample lens pictures will help us to date the production year.

Hugo Zhang

3-Sep-2021, 19:39

Here it is:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/143928368647

peter brooks

4-Sep-2021, 04:31

Seems very odd to be lacking an engraved serial number... even later TTH lenses like the IIIb and war time Aviars have them...

I wonder, is there any engraving on the 'beauty ring' (does the hood unscrew)?

mhayashi

4-Sep-2021, 06:04

I’d say your lens was made in between 1920 and 1923 based on the patent number publication date and the non-knuckler before 1923 based on the cooke compendium.

There should be the serial number somewhere on the lens….

peter brooks

4-Sep-2021, 10:08

I would expect to see at least the model designation (Series IIA), the focal length, max aperture and serial number engraved somewhere.

I believe TTH also devised and marketed engraving machines, and were (in my limited experience anyway) very thorough. :)

Hugo Zhang

4-Sep-2021, 10:52

I have just checked my Cooke IIA 10 1/2 inch f/3.5 lens. It has the same PATENT No. 155640 engraved on its barrel, but has its No. 106447 engraved on the ring of the lens shade in the front with COOKE PORTRAIT LENS f/3.5 10 1/2 inch Series II.A. It was made between 1919 and 1925.

This 12 1/2 inch lens does not have any words engraved on the ring of lens shade in the front. All other things are identical with TAYLOR TAYLOR & HOBSON Ltd on the barrel.

In Cooke's IIA 1913 catalogue this lens was listed as a 12 inch lens and in its 1921 catalogue it became a 12 1/2 inch lens. So the series # 38247 penciled inside the lens barrel indicates it was made between 1915 and 1918.

http://camera-wiki.org/wiki/Taylor-Hobson_serial_numbers

https://cookeoptics.com/t/compendium.html

The eBay seller had it listed as a 305mm lens while 12 1/2 inch is closer to 318mm.

mhayashi

4-Sep-2021, 16:33

peter brooks

5-Sep-2021, 09:11

It's buried on page 4 of this thread but here is the link to Karl's spreadsheet:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Zan_PR-3rcPkejlblOhAjLPdZQ_saO3HLEG2a-dmsKc/edit?usp=sharing

I doubt if TTH would sell a lens without proper engraving... maybe the lens hood has been changed? Could it be a prototype? Or one not completed in the factory that somehow found a way to the outside world?

If the barrel is engraved with that patent number then it (the barrel) must date to at least when the patent was published (Dec 22nd, 1920) but that doesn't seem to sit well with a serial number of 38247.

A mystery!

rmdorman

7-Dec-2021, 18:29

Serial number 13467 HD Taylor’s patents 'Unscrew three turns for sharpest definition' Series II f4.5 3 1/4 x 4 1/4 Equiv focus 8”
222117
222118
What do you think, around 1900ish?

mhayashi

8-Dec-2021, 08:32

https://largeformatcameras.net/picture.php?/4332/category/76

Your cooke lens seems to be the 1st generation which was made from 1897 to 1908.
The above catalogue dates 1906 and your serial number dates between 1900 and 1907 I suppose, since your lens’s focal length coverage engraving is not 5x7 the one on the 1907 catalog description.

Are you sure for the engraving is 3 1/4 x 4 1/4 for 8”, isn’t the coverage 6 1/2 x 4 3/4 or the focal length 5”?
I can’t read the engravings well from your pictures.

https://largeformatcameras.net/picture.php?/5283/category/107

https://www.cookeoptics.com/t/compendium.html
http://camera-wiki.org/wiki/Taylor-Hobson_serial_numbers

Tin Can

8-Dec-2021, 09:01

Very interesting

Thank you

https://largeformatcameras.net/picture.php?/4332/category/76

Your cooke lens seems to be the 1st generation which was made from 1897 to 1908.
The above catalogue dates 1906 and your serial number dates between 1900 and 1907 I suppose, since your lens’s focal length coverage engraving is not 5x7 the one on the 1907 catalog description.

Are you sure for the engraving is 3 1/4 x 4 1/4 for 8”, isn’t the coverage 6 1/2 x 4 3/4 or the focal length 5”?
I can’t read the engravings well from your pictures.

https://largeformatcameras.net/picture.php?/5283/category/107

https://www.cookeoptics.com/t/compendium.html
http://camera-wiki.org/wiki/Taylor-Hobson_serial_numbers

rmdorman

9-Dec-2021, 22:50

Are you sure for the engraving is 3 1/4 x 4 1/4 for 8”, isn’t the coverage 6 1/2 x 4 3/4 or the focal length 5”?
I can’t read the engravings well from your pictures.

I'm sorry for the terrible quality pictures! I'll attach better. Yes it's engraved for 3 1/4 x 4 1/4 with 8" equiv focus, as in the attached ad from 1904 (taken from Colucci's site)

222228
222229
222231

rmdorman

9-Dec-2021, 23:02

Another picture
222232

Steven Tribe

10-Dec-2021, 05:56

Well well, I never realized that the first Cooke soft portrait series II used the rear cell for adjustment, rather than moving the central lens forward as in later series II and VI. And the maximum soft position was with the cell screwed in!

Tin Can

10-Dec-2021, 07:10

I also noticed that

We need a lens expert

Well well, I never realized that the first Cooke soft portrait series II used the rear cell for adjustment, rather than moving the central lens forward as in later series II and VI. And the maximum soft position was with the cell screwed in!

mhayashi

10-Dec-2021, 08:19

Thank you rmdorman.
I confirmed the engraving image coverage was at full aperture f4.5, 6 1/2 x 4 3/4 at f16 as shown in the 1903 catalogue.
https://largeformatcameras.net/picture.php?/4320/category/53

The later 1906 catalogue simply states the image coverage 6 1/2 x 4 3/4 (at f16). I was confused.
The 1907 catalogue changed to the 2nd generation so the image coverage at full aperture also changed to 5x7 in the table.

rmdorman

10-Dec-2021, 17:26

Very cool MH! Thanks for solving that puzzle :) at least my initial “project it on the wall” test looked like an image circle at medium distance bigger than 4x5 at f4.5
Yeah ST this won’t be as convenient as the knucklers y’all have haha. Good thing I’m an amateur and don’t have a line of portrait subjects out the door, I’m not sure how to adjust soft focus without removing the lens board. Can see why they upgraded the design.

rmdorman

10-Dec-2021, 22:31

Oh and also VM says New York branch was opened in 1902; since it has NY and Leicester/London engraved then maybe 1902-1907 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Tin Can

11-Dec-2021, 05:42

Not a big deal, as we need to focus with the soft setting we set

I tried the other way and factory literature is faulty

WYSIWYG

Very cool MH! Thanks for solving that puzzle :) at least my initial “project it on the wall” test looked like an image circle at medium distance bigger than 4x5 at f4.5
Yeah ST this won’t be as convenient as the knucklers y’all have haha. Good thing I’m an amateur and don’t have a line of portrait subjects out the door, I’m not sure how to adjust soft focus without removing the lens board. Can see why they upgraded the design.

mhayashi

19-Oct-2022, 07:33

Series II Portrait f4.5 18” knuckler #120519, 6th generation.
Series IIE Portrait f4.5 15” 380mm knuckler #306340, 7th generation.

Mark Sawyer

19-Oct-2022, 09:36

Tin Can

19-Oct-2022, 09:53

The linked factoid is very confusing

I have 2 Series II Portrait f4.5, 10.5" and 14.5"

Like em!

mhayashi

19-Oct-2022, 21:46

Does anyone know of a source outlining the differences between the different generations of the Cooke Portrait Lenses?

There is an excellent page describing the differences between the various versions in the link below, (click on the various lenses to open the description), but it doesn't break them down into "generations".

https://cookeoptics.com/compendium/

Mark, the compendium page was resurrected but deteriorated. The last version had the illustrates and tables with each generation from my memory.
The wayback machine doesn't have the compendium page saved completely. A big loss.

https://web.archive.org/web/20210622132229/https://cookeoptics.com/t/compendium.html

I might put things together from my memory to indicate which model is which generation....
But Cooke had alphabetical suffix versions too like IIa, IIb, IIc, IId, IIe and so on but I believe the basic constructions followed the Series II at each generational period, except the last generation IId and IIe which should be called 7th generation rather than 6th probably when Series II ends....
Point me someone if I'm wrong....

First try....
Focus: only Series Portrait II and its variations with Soft focus mechanisms. Exclusions are VI series and IIc for example.
Assumptions:
Series II alphabetical suffix versions, IIa and IIb follow the same constructions with the Series II without suffix at the same periods.

From the Cooke compendium description quotes with my notes:

There were 6 incarnations of the Series II Portrait Lens from 1897 through about 1935. Each redesign looks very different.

1st generation (rear soft focus adjstment)
1897-?
The aperture mechanism is extruded, the front barrel is smaller than the rear.

The Series II f/4.5 first appeared in an 1897 catalogue in two focal lengths.

https://largeformatcameras.net/picture.php?/4332/category/76
https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/13-05-f4-taylor-hobson-cooke-series-1910363596

2nd generation (rear soft focus adjstment, screwing mechanism<-some contradictions in the sentences below)
1908-?
Straight barrel, aperture mechanism is close to the rear element. “Unscrew three turns for the sharpest definition” is engraved on the rear element case. The thin black painted band for aperture scales at the rear of the barrel.

In 1908, it appeared, obviously redesigned, in four more focal lengths as “ultra rapid anastigmats designed for the finest portraiture and for subjects demanding extreme speed.” Only the 10.5 and 13 inch Series II lenses included the diffusion adjustment, which was operated from the front of the camera. The 4, 5, 6 and 8 inch lenses were recommended for press photography.1897 catalogue ? “These lenses combine the advantage of the modern anastigmat ? flatness of field and freedom from astigmatism at full aperture with an adjustment enabling the photographer to introduce at will spherical aberration evenlyover the whole plate. The maximum of fine definition is obtained when the back lens has been unscrewed exactly three turns.” It was offered in 8 inch and 13 inch approximate focal lengths. (1897).

In 1908, the lens design appears different and additional focal lengths appeared in the catalogue.

https://realcamera.co.uk/product/nikon-105mm-f-2-5-ais-telephoto-prime-lens-with-caps-nikon-f-mount/
https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/13-330mm-f4-taylor-hobson-cooke-1890623542
https://largeformatcameras.net/picture.php?/5283/category/107

3rd generation (front soft focus adjstment)
?-?
Rear end of the barrel is coned and painted black for aperture mechanism.
IIa seemed to have a longer hood than II which had no hood.

1910 catalogue ? “The 10.5 and 13 inch lenses are provided with an improved means of diffusion adjustment, which is operated from the front of the camera. This enables the photographer to secure at will uniform sharp definition, or to introduce any required softness evenly throughout the plate. The shorter focus lenses are recommended for press photography. . . . For Cinematograph work, lenses of 1.5, 2.25 and 3 inches focus can be supplied, with iris diaphragms and fixed flanges.”

From a 1914 Cooke lens catalogue: “The constant demand for Portrait lenses of high speed led us to introduce the series II Cooke Portrait lens several years ago. At first we catalogued only one size, the 8×10 of 13 inch focus. Since then studio photographers ever looking for equipment more complete and portraits more artistic, have urged us to add the 10×12 and 11×14 sizes. . . . The three largest sizes are fitted with a diffusing device which enables the photographer to regulate to a nicety the depth of focus and the softness and roundness of his image. Any desired degree of softness may be introduced evenly throuout the plat, simply by revolving the front portion of the lens mount. . . . The No. 22-1/2 Portrait lens [10.5 inch focus, 6.5 x 8/5 plate]. . . focus is just short enough for those cramped situations so often encountered in the home. . . . Nos. 23 [13 inch focus, 8×10 plate], 23-1/2 [14.5 inch focus, 8×10 plate] and 24 lenses [16 inch focus, 10×12 plate] have been designed for exceptionally difficult portraiture in galleries without the advantage of an ordinarily large skylight and where the lighting is unusually poor. They are fitted with the diffusing device referred to above.

Notable is mentioned that IIa sunk mount shape for shorter focal lengths for SLR. But this description is I believe wrong about none soft focus IIa with short focus length lenses. see the 1912 catalogue link below.

Prices were shown for the 5, 6, 7 and 8 inch lenses supplied in Compound shutters, or in Sunk Mounts: “To meet the growing demand for lenses in Sunk Mounts, suitable for collapsible and reflex types of cameras, we have designed this special form of mounting and shall be pleased to supply lenses in such mounts.” (1912)

https://www.ebay.com/itm/385151636292?hash=item59acd39344:g:Io4AAOSwHDFjPHGO
https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/16-f4-taylor-hobson-tth-cooke-series-1795749386
https://www.google.co.jp/books/edition/Progresso_fotografico/nMH30qIZI4cC?hl=en&gbpv=0
https://www.antiquecameras.net/images/cooke_lenses_1912.pdf

4th generation (front soft focus adjstment, telescopic soft focus mechanism)
?-?
No quite sure about the examples. Cascading front barrel shape. I have not found an sample with this shape for Series II, but only with Series IIa. Also the serial number counts from 5 digit 9xxxx up to 6 digits 11xxxx?
https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/antique-f3-taylor-hobson-cooke-series-1811913769
https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/huge-cooke-series-ii-15-f3-8x10-soft-525639244
https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/taylor-hobson-cooke-vintage-portrait-495503862
https://aucfree.com/items/u403815859

Not the scope here but the rarest Series I soft focus 12.5” f3.1 also follows this shape.
https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/taylor-hobson-cooke-soft-focus-12-2-173215458

”Working the Diffusion Adjustment on Series I, f/3.1 Portric
The diffusion adjustment just described above “is obtained by sliding the body tube, to which the large hood is screwed, in the outer jacket on which the flange screw is cut. Instructions for operating are engraved upon each mount indicating that when the sliding tube is pulled forward as far as possible, the lens will be set to give sharp focus results. When pushed in as far as possible the maximum diffusion is given, while varying degrees at intermediate positions may be recorded by reference to lines engraved on the tube.”

5th generation (front soft focus adjstment)
Started? - Ended 1922-1923?
Rear end of the barrel is coned and painted black for aperture mechanism. The sign is also on the inner front rim of the hood. Both IIa and II seemed to have long hoods, but the no hood version of 3rd generation also coexisted?

By 1922/23, the diffusion adjustment was available in all of the focal lengths offered (see spec table), “operated by rotating the body of the mount, containing the hood and front glass, in the direction of the arrow as if it were being screwed into the other part of the mount.”

https://www.ebay.com/itm/385151838594?hash=item59acd6a982:g:IloAAOSwfp1jPLIK
https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/cooke-portrait-engl-5-14-25-inch-410430481
https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/cooks-5-portrait-lens-series-ii-98214-104955890
https://www.cameraeccentric.com/static/img/pdfs/cooke_1.pdf

6th generation (front soft focus adjstment, revolving soft focus mechanism, the last version for Series II without the alphabetical suffix)
Started 1922-1923. Ended 1930. Serial number from 115xxx?
Distinct knob for soft focus adjustment, aka “Knuckler”. The aperture scale is engraved on black painted band which is on the cone slanted side of the front element barrel. The outer barrel has the slanted cone painted black with the soft focus adjustment scale. The sign on the inner rim of the front hood. The soft focus adjustment is 0,1,2, and 3 with mechanical clicks. The front element moves back and forth upon soft focusing adjustment.

Some time after 1923, the Series II, f/4.5 design incorporated the finger-grip, and the term “Cooke Knuckler” was coined by photographers. Diffusion was accomplished by turning the finger-grip on the mount while a bold and easily read scale indicated the degree of diffusion.”The right choice of a shutter is of vital importance. The highest efficiency in the photography of rapidly moving subjects is secured with focal-plane shutters. The 10.5 and 13 inch lenses are provided with an improved means of diffusion adjustment, which is operated from the front of the camera. This enables the photographer to secure at will uniform sharp definition, or to introduce any required softness evenly throughout the plate” (1908).”The shorter focus lenses are recommended for press photography, and will take fine pictures at times when other less rapid lenses fail utterly. For Cinematography work, lenses of 1.5, 2.25 and 3 inches focus can be supplied, with iris diaphragms and fixed flanges” (1909).

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/15-f4-taylor-hobson-tth-cooke-series-1797740607
https://www.pacificrimcamera.com/rl/02531/02531.pdf

IIA(f3.5) and IIB(f4.5) also follow the 6th generation knuckler design in the same period.

7th generation (Series II without alphabetical suffix no longer existed, revolving soft focus mechanism)
For IID(f3.5), IIE(f4.5). c.1931 (after April 1, 1930) to 1956
Distinct knob for soft focus adjustment, aka “Knuckler”
The aperture adjustment ring is close to the rear and extruded. The aperture scale is near the middle of the outer barrel. The sign is engraved on the black paint band near the middle but closer to the rear. The soft focus adjustment is 0,1,2,3,4, and 5 with mechanical clicks. The front element moves back and forth upon soft focusing adjustment.
https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/15-f4-taylor-hobson-tth-cooke-series-1814603483
https://largeformatcameras.net/index.php?/category/5

Chronology
Series II f4.5 portrait 1897 to c.1935
Series IIa f3.5 portric c.1909 to 1930
Series IIb f4.5 portrellic c.1926 to 1930
Series IId f3.5 portric 1931 to 1947
Series IIe f4.5 portrellic c.1931 (after April 1, 1930) to 1956

PS
Series I, f/3.1 PORTRIC 1921 to 1923
Series VI, f/5.6 1908 to c.1930
Series VIa, f/5.6 PORTRONIC c.1930 to c.1947

Tin Can

20-Oct-2022, 02:18

Much better

Thank you!

Mark, the compendium page was resurrected but deteriorated. The last version had the illustrates and tables with each generation from my memory.
The wayback machine doesn't have the compendium page saved completely. A big loss.

https://web.archive.org/web/20210622132229/https://cookeoptics.com/t/compendium.html

I might put things together from my memory to indicate which model is which generation....
But Cooke had alphabetical suffix versions too like IIa, IIb, IIc, IId, IIe and so on but I believe the basic constructions followed the Series II at each generational period, except the last generation IId and IIe which should be called 7th generation rather than 6th probably when Series II ends....
Point me someone if I'm wrong....

First try....

From the Cooke compendium description quotes with my notes:

1st generation (rear soft focus adjstment)

2nd generation (rear soft focus adjstment <-some contradictions in the sentences below)

3rd generation (front soft focus adjstment)

4th generation (front soft focus adjstment)

5th generation (front soft focus adjstment)

6th generation (front soft focus adjstment)

7th generation
IID, IIE

Tin Can

20-Oct-2022, 05:41

Well the link leads to 7 corporate monsters

Most of them will be gone sooner

Wikipedia may last

We are entering a new Dark Ages

sorry kids

Mark Sawyer

20-Oct-2022, 12:20

Mark, the compendium page was resurrected but deteriorated. The last version had the illustrates and tables with each generation from my memory.
The wayback machine doesn't have the compendium page saved completely. A big loss...

Thank you! I'll have to sit down for an hour or two to go through this.

A big loss indeed. I wonder if Cooke maintained the data internally, and could give access somewhere.

rmdorman

20-Oct-2022, 17:35

Great work mhayashi thanks so much!

mhayashi

22-Oct-2022, 06:25

Andre, a member of LFPF kindly sent me the previous page in 2018.
Here is the file.
Thank you Andre!!

231975

By reading the original page in pdf, it’s not clear which generation is talked about in a given paragraph and corresponding lens illustrations, especially for 3rd, 4th and 5th generations.

I try and hope the generation order is correct and corresponding sample serial numbers are ordinal and match to the generation order too.
I wonder if Cooke made different generations at the same period if any.
If so there must be some serial overlaps during the generation transitions.

Be also aware the original page talks all of Series II including no soft focus function.

peter brooks

23-Oct-2022, 02:15

Yes, excellent work Mhayashi.

It is good to have a copy of that 'compendium', especially as information had been submitted and incorporated from owners of the lenses.

I hope that there might be a copy of the original pages (kept by the web developers?) that could be restored somewhere on the site.

I wonder if Cooke made different generations at the same period if any.

Information put on the internet has a tendancy to become fact* but of course there was never any Cooke company - all these lenses were manufactured and marketed by the UK company Taylor, Taylor and Hobson (TTH).

Cooke was a brand name used by TTH. The designer of the triplet lens H Dennis Taylor (no relation to the Taylors in TTH) worked for Thomas Cooke and Sons, telescope makers of York. Cooke weren't interested in manufacturing photographic lenses so Taylor approached TTH, who licensed the design and adopted the brand name 'Cooke' for the triplet lenses. Hence these triplet lenses often feature the engraving 'H D Taylor's Patents'.

As there are no records (stock or order books) it is hard to gauge if different generations of the same series were available at the same period. The spreadsheet (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Zan_PR-3rcPkejlblOhAjLPdZQ_saO3HLEG2a-dmsKc/edit?usp=sharing) may give some clues. It is hard to imagine that there were abrupt changes coinciding with the publication of catalogues, I would have thought that almost certainly there would be stocks of barrels, ground lenses etc. and completed items still to be sold.

TTH leveraged and expanded the use of the Cooke brand name, and it became especially associated with lenses used in the film industry.

TTH became part of the Rank Organisation, and the various specialist divisions of TTH (very diverse!) subsequently came under different ownerships.

Cooke Optics Ltd is a separate company founded in 1998 (registration info here (https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/03579622)). I have read (on the internet of course!) that the new company resulted from a management buyout of the remaining TTH lens division but I have seen nothing to corroborate this.

None of this intended to belittle the excellent work by Cooke Optics Ltd, who continue to do justice to the famous Cooke brand name.

There used to be a member who worked for Cooke Optics (retired now I believe) on this site, I wonder if they are still active?

------

* A prime example of this is family history research - those seeking quick results will adopt entire branches of trees 'researched' by others. Without checking the primary sources (in the UK that would be baptism registers, civil registration births, marriages and deaths, and the census records) there is no guarantee that the information is correct, and you could be potentially researching entirely the wrong family! Of course there are many more examples of attempts to legitimise 'facts' on the internet...

Tin Can

23-Oct-2022, 03:51

We should also collect any and all Cooke TTH etc sales brochures and especially, 'How to use' pamphlets often included with lenses

When I looked on line when I bought my 2 adjustable focus Cooke II, I found and lost online totally different advice on how to use the same lens, changing over a few years

mhayashi

30-Oct-2022, 03:28

Dear Peter, Tin and Cookin’ Cooke members,
Ivan Rose kindly provided me ads of British Journal Almanac (BJA).
Now I ask the members to post 1st to 5th generation samples with distinctive featured pictures that stand out from other generations for identification.

I do have 6th and 7th knuckler samples in my hands to post sample pics.
Based on these BJA ads, other catalogs I saw and samples I’ve seen online, I wonder if the 4th and 5th generations really existed for Series II without counting the suffixed version (IIa, IId, IIe, even Vi and VIa) generations with distinctive differences….

The 3rd generation is probably the same as 5th generation, but they look very similar but different in minor details like aperture ring lock? is covered with the triangle plate compared to the designated screw in the 5th generation and so on??

Allow me to use the pics to put things together to make the Cooke soft focus lens systemstic diagram permanently available to anyone interested!!

Hello Masayoshi,
these are from the British Photo. Journal Almanac. For 1910, the book would be compiled at the end of the previous year, in this case 1909. Some years I have shown the change in the advertising. With other years I have shown the first advert for the new generation of each lens, 1934 is the first year for the IID, IIE & VIA.
Hope this helps. You may use these on the site.
Regards Ivan

1910 BJA 232195
1915 BJA 232196
1921 BJA 232197
1925 BJA 232198

Acknowledgment:
Ad copies are from Ivan Rose.

mhayashi

30-Oct-2022, 03:33

BJA 1926 232221
BJA 1927 232222
BJA 1934 232223
BJA 1939 232224

Acknowledgment:
Ad copies are from Ivan Rose.

mhayashi

30-Oct-2022, 03:36

BJA 1951 232225
BJA 1955 232226

Acknowledgment:
Ad copies are from Ivan Rose.

Tin Can

30-Oct-2022, 05:47

All links do not work...

BJA 1951 232203
BJA 1955 232204

Acknowledgment:
Ad copies are from Ivan Rose.

mhayashi

30-Oct-2022, 15:53

Sorry Tin Can.
I uploaded the files and linked the tags again.

peter brooks

31-Oct-2022, 05:03

Now I ask the members to post 1st to 5th generation samples with distinctive featured pictures that stand out from other generations for identification.

This is a truly admirable endeavour but I suspect it may not be entirely straightforward :)

Here is my 10.5" Series II, no. 109422. In your classification it is a fifth generation. What is interesting about it is there is NO 'Taylor, Taylor & Hobson' (and address) engraving on the lens barrel. This appears to be the case also for the ebay example you give (14.5" serial 108862, Igors Cameras).

To me this is mighty odd. TTH designed and manufactured their own engraving machines (and sold them to other lens manufacturers), and their superb engraving is to be found prominently on (nearly, it seems) every barrel.

So could that be a specific feature of a particular generation? The third link that you have in that generation (worthpoint) does have a barrel engraving. More samples required I think.

Hood or no hood? As you can see mine has none - the 'beauty ring' is at the very front of the body. Other lens seem to have a half inch or so 'petite' hood. Why would you not have a hood, even if minimal? It helps protect the glass if nothing else. I wonder if hood / no hood was an option. I've never seen hoods being offered as an accessory by TTH (and their catalogues list flanges, adapters and all sorts of bits and pieces).

232243 232244 232245

232246 232247 232248

rmdorman

31-Oct-2022, 19:20

I just have the one gen I 8” but you’re welcome to use the pictures I posted or I can take more if needed

mhayashi

31-Oct-2022, 20:45

Thank you Peter and rmdorman for sharing the pics.
We should also take notes of all of the engravings etched on the inner and outer barrel, front lens case, hood, rear lens case and so on for identification purposes….

mhayashi

20-Nov-2022, 19:17

Series IIB 15” f4.5 165130 knuckler.

peter brooks

23-May-2023, 10:05

Hi Karl, some serial numbers from the Flints sale (UK) today (all are knucklers):

Series IIA f/3.5 15" no. 122495
Series IIE f/4.5 18" no. 208860
Series IIB f/4.5 12¾" no. 211229
Series IIA f/3.5 12½" no. 211673
Series IIE f/4.5 10½" no. 307826

Cheers,
Peter