Starter LF Lens

[alechosterman]

Hello all.

I'm new to LF but not photography. I need a suggestion for an inexpensive introductory lens. For context, here's my story:

My father was downsizing his place and gave me his 5x7 Eastman View Camera No. 2 that he refinished many years ago. The bellows are tight and no light leaks are apparent. Also came with three film holders. However, the lens it came with doesn't work - I'm thinking it's original to the camera and age is just the cause (the shutter doesn't open and close).

173219

I'm perusing Adorama, B&H, and eBay and finding quite a few different lenses, all ranging in manufacturer and price. I'm familiar with DSLR and mirrorless, some MF, but LF brands are new to me.

Do you have a recommendation for a sub-$300 introductory lens that I could purchase to test out LF photography? I'm probably going to photograph nature scenes if that helps.

Many thanks!
Alec

[Corran]

210mm Symmar-S should set you back about $200 or less. That's the "standard" focal length for 5x7. If you want a wider lens, something in the 120-150mm area would be more appropriate. I'll let others comments because I don't shoot 5x7 myself but the 210mm Symmar I know covers with plenty to spare and is cheap, so I thought I'd mention that one first.

[David Karp]

A 210mm Caltar II-N is a very good lens in the normal range for 5x7. Should be around $200. The lens is made by Rodenstock. The equivalent Rodenstock APO Sironar-N should be around the same price.

[Bob Salomon]

210mm Symmar-S should set you back about $200 or less. That's the "standard" focal length for 5x7. If you want a wider lens, something in the 120-150mm area would be more appropriate. I'll let others comments because I don't shoot 5x7 myself but the 210mm Symmar I know covers with plenty to spare and is cheap, so I thought I'd mention that one first.
Actually a 180 is the normal lens for 57. A 210 would be a long normal. However is much easier to find used 210 lenses as they are also one of the most popular lenses for 45.

[Corran]

Calculating the diagonal gives 214mm...but yes more importantly it's a more common lens, and cheap.

[xkaes]

Just like in any format, you gets lots of opinions about what is a "normal" lens. I like a "slightly" wide "normal", but it's all just opinion, and does not effect price at all. There are many 180-210mm lenses that will meet your needs. Keep in mind that many of these lenses produce image circles that are much larger than 5x7 film -- and cost a lot more as a result. In addition, many of these lenses have larger maximum apertures (AKA larger glass elements and more of them) -- and cost a lot more as a result. So "slower" lenses that cover 5x7 without image size "overkill" will be the least expensive. Some good ones sell for about $100 with shutters. Here's a place where you can see the difference of some lenses:

http://www.subclub.org/fujinon/

[David Karp]

A 210mm Caltar II-N is a very good lens in the normal range for 5x7. Should be around $200. The lens is made by Rodenstock. The equivalent Rodenstock APO Sironar-N should be around the same price.

I should also have said plain old Sironar-N. The APO version, which is identical, may be offered at a higher price. You can get a 180mm in the same flavors. Nice multicoated Fujinon lenses (marked Fujinon W on the outside room of the lens barrel) are often available at good prices. Fujinons are excellent lenses.

[Bob Salomon]

I should also have said plain old Sironar-N. The APO version, which is identical, may be offered at a higher price. You can get a 180mm in the same flavors. Nice multicoated Fujinon lenses (marked Fujinon W on the outside room of the lens barrel) are often available at good prices. Fujinons are excellent lenses.

No, the Sironar N is not the same as the ApoSironar N. The Sironar N MC became the first Apo N lenses.

[Jac@stafford.net]

You already have good advice regarding a lens. I add two more. First, the lens might be restored with a CLA (clean,lube,adjustment), and a reducing back to 4x5" opens opportunities for more available films.

[David Karp]

No, the Sironar N is not the same as the ApoSironar N. The Sironar N MC became the first Apo N lenses.

Follow Bob's advice on that one. I assumed multicoating (MC) and should not have.

[alechosterman]

You already have good advice regarding a lens. I add two more. First, the lens might be restored with a CLA (clean,lube,adjustment), and a reducing back to 4x5" opens opportunities for more available films.

You've piqued my curiosity! With my old camera, do you know if anyone makes a standard reducing back that might fit?

[Jac@stafford.net]

You've piqued my curiosity! With my old camera, do you know if anyone makes a standard reducing back that might fit?

So very many manufacturers back then used common backs in part because they copied each other. I cannot read the front label on your camera, so if you could type-in exactly what it says it would be helpful. Thank you.

[mdarnton]

If you are comfy with Ebay, 180mm/5.6 and 210/5.6 Fujinon-W lenses are dirt cheap from Japan, and as good as anything. The inside-lettered ones have more coverage but are single coated, and the outside letter are multicoated, with more recent shutters, with coverage more like the run of the mill Sironars and Symmars.

I often buy from Japan, and it's reliable and often quicker than from the US. Descriptions are usually spot-on.

180mm a bit wider than 35mm on 35mm, and 210mm on 5x7 is textbook normal, like 42mm on 35mm, if there were such a thing. I find myself using slightly wider lenses on 5x7 than on 35mm, for some reason, and like my 150mm Fujinon-W the best for outside, but for portraits 250 (50mm equivalent) or 300mm (like 60mm) is more appropriate.

One more thing--look into the xray film thread. The stuff costs 40 cents per 8x10 sheet! 1975 film prices. I started with it thinking I'd move to more expensive film when I got more experience, but have been stuck at xray film. If you like the look of 1920s photos (and I do), it's perfect.

Frankly, the lens on your camera looks pretty interesting. What does it say on the lens itself? The shutter is a simple one and should be easy to get going again.

[alechosterman]

OK - I now get to ask the last dumb question of 2017 (I hope): I measured the glass and the film holder and both were 5x7, thus I presumed it was a 5x7. Is this accurate? In other words, how can I accurately tell if I have a 5x7 or 4x5?

Picture for reference:
173221

[alechosterman]

173222
Here's the front tag.

[mdarnton]

Yes, the camera is 5x7. Read what I asked about the lens, above?

[Louis Pacilla]

OK - I now get to ask the last dumb question of 2017 (I hope): I measured the glass and the film holder and both were 5x7, thus I presumed it was a 5x7. Is this accurate? In other words, how can I accurately tell if I have a 5x7 or 4x5?

Picture for reference:
173221

Yes you have a nice Kodak Eastman 2d 5x7 and reducing backs like 4x5 are available and should not be hard to find and in 30 days you can place a WTB right here which will help you locate a nice matching finish reducing back. I would also suggest you find an matching finish 2d 5x7 extension rail and sliding base to make a 'complete' working set giving you more choices when doing close up work not to mention being able to use longer focal lengths at infinity focus.

BTW -What does does the lettering around the rim (ring that holds glass into the front barrel) of your lens read?

[alechosterman]

Michael -

Here's what I can see written on it: Gundlach-Manhattan Optical Company, Rochester NY. Rapid Reotigraphic F8. Looks like it goes f/8 through f/64. There is other writing on the front but it's aged off. On the back it has 25 in marked in the inner ring as well as what looks like a serial number.

Have any thoughts on it? Have any recommendations on who might look at it for a cleaning?

Thanks!

173223

[mdarnton]

Thanks. OK, interesting, but not that exotic. Best to probably buy something newer. Leave it for if you go insane for old stuff. :-)

[Jac@stafford.net]

Thanks. OK, interesting, but not that exotic. Best to probably buy something newer. Leave it for if you go insane for old stuff. :-)

Oh, Mr. Darton, you sucked all the romance away. :)

But to the OP: there are LF fanatics who search wide and far for old lenses that have flaws they cherish. Sharpness is entirely over-rated.

[xkaes]

Oh, Mr. Darton, you sucked all the romance away. :)

And all these years, I thought that sucking actually, somehow, IMPROVED the romance. Shows to go ya!

[alechosterman]

Thanks. OK, interesting, but not that exotic. Best to probably buy something newer. Leave it for if you go insane for old stuff. :-)

Sounds good. And if my interest in LF takes off I'll probably see about getting the shutter fixed. But a $200 investment in a new lens isn't too shabby on my part. Now I just have to figure out how to get them developed! :)

[Louis Pacilla]

Michael -

Here's what I can see written on it: Gundlach-Manhattan Optical Company, Rochester NY. Rapid Reotigraphic F8. Looks like it goes f/8 through f/64. There is other writing on the front but it's aged off. On the back it has 25 in marked in the inner ring as well as what looks like a serial number.

Have any thoughts on it? Have any recommendations on who might look at it for a cleaning?

Thanks!

173223

While you should probably pick up a more modern plastmat type lens (180-210mm)in a Copal 1 shutter the lens you have is a pretty terrific triple convertible called a Gundlach Rapid Rectigraphic (a Rapid Rectilinear type w/ the traditional 2 glued elements the Retigraphic has 3 glued elements per cell for better edge sharpness over IC read it here http://piercevaubel.com/cam/catalogs/1891gundlachlp303.htm) #6 size which makes the combined focal length 16"f8 w/ convertible 25"/34" fl f16-18
The magic is in the long FL of 16" combined on a 5x7 will be great on portrait or general long lens use. If it was mine I would replace the shutter w/ a 'rim set' #3-4 Ilex Universal shutter as I believe there is a good chance the dial set Ilex Universal shutter has the same barrel thread size and you can also transfer the aperture scale plate and that makes for a a very good lens and fairly dependable shutter.
I like the RIM SET Ilex Universal shutters and HATE the DIAL SET Ilex Universal shutters. Totally different animals.

[B.S.Kumar]

If the aperture works, you could shoot paper negatives easily without needing a shutter. You can make contact prints. Paper is cheap and easily available. 30 days later, if LF still holds your interest, you'll have access to the classifieds, and see what's available.

kumar

[Jim Jones]

My favorite lens for 5x7 was a Kodak Ektar 203mm f/7.7. This design, sometimes under other names, has been around a long time, but still performs well if the slow aperture isn't too much of a handicap.
I've made 4x5 backs for 5x7 cameras by cutting a plywood sheet to fit the camera and mounting the back of a junk box 4x5 on it.

[John Kasaian]

The Ektar 203mm f/7.7 doesn't allow much wiggle room for movements on 5x7, just sayin'
A 215mm Ilex should work well for you.
Check out the lens coverage tables linked on the LF Home Page on the blue banner ^^^up there^^^ for a list of the usual suspects.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtSmfws0_To

[alechosterman]

Lots of great information in here. Thanks everyone for helping out an LF noob! :)

[angusparker]

Another vote for a Fujinon W 180/5.6 (with lettering on the inside of the front element) - it will have a modern shutter, multi-coating, fast aperture f5.6 and will be slightly wide/normal on a 5x7. Great choice and cheap on the auction site. The Japanese sellers haven't disappointed me yet. You could also go for the slower (f9) and lighter but greater coverage 180mm "A" version for a bit more money.

List of Fujinon lenses here: http://www.subclub.org/fujinon/byfl.htm

[Jac@stafford.net]

Lots of great information in here. Thanks everyone for helping out an LF noob! :)

Your first LF lens could very well become your last, the best. Whatever you choose use it a lot. The differences between modern lenses are not enough to worry about.

[xkaes]

Another vote for a Fujinon W 180/5.6 (with lettering on the inside of the front element) - it will have a modern shutter, multi-coating, fast aperture f5.6 and will be slightly wide/normal on a 5x7.

A minor correction. The Fujinon W (and SW) lenses with inside lettering were not EBC coated. The only Fujinons with inside lettering and EBC coating were the early SWD lenses.

[Bernice Loui]

Suggest getting a 210mm f5.6 most anything modern from any of the major four Rodenstock, Nikor, Schneider, Fujinon. There are plenty of these available used in very nice condition both shutter and glass. None should be more than $200 USD max.

First lens must have a reliable-accurate shutter with know optical performance, anything less will cause significant grief and makes the learning process more difficult. First lens problems will also waste a LOT of film, chemistry and time with the potential for a great deal of frustration trying to figure out what went wrong.

Do get the lens on the camera serviced. Shutter cleaned, lubed, adjusted, glass properly cleaned. This will serve as a second lens for this camera.

Camera and lens aside there are other must haves like a good tripod, light tight film holders, light meter, focusing loupe, dark cloth to allow ground glass viewing, cable release and transport case. These basic items are equally important as camera-lens.

Then we have film. Suggest sticking with one specific film brand and type until LF image making skills are up the learning curve. Keep this initial step up the learning curve simple and basic.



Bernice

[jnantz]

You already have good advice regarding a lens. I add two more. First, the lens might be restored with a CLA (clean,lube,adjustment), and a reducing back to 4x5" opens opportunities for more available films.

couldn't agree more, ...


Have any recommendations on who might look at it for a cleaning?

Thanks!


in ri we have 3 shops that can probably fix your shutter
midstate camera repair
zacks camera repair
sk grimes
all 3 do fantastic work
( i have used all three )
good luck !
john
ps if you don't find a reducing back and want
a toho reducing film HOLDER i have one i can sell you
it works great ! and takes up less space /is less filling than a giant 5x7/4x5 reducing back )

[angusparker]

A minor correction. The Fujinon W (and SW) lenses with inside lettering were not EBC coated. The only Fujinons with inside lettering and EBC coating were the early SWD lenses.

Absolutely. My mistake I meant outside lettering! The later ones have a 67mm filter ring with better coatings but there are other versions. All is explained in the link I shared earlier.


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