Computer Technology

[Corran]

I decided to make a thread for these because I want to make this an ongoing project. Feel free to leave constructive comments or critique.

I worked all night last night making photographs of a couple different main boards I have hanging in my office. A friend of mine commented that there is an interesting anachronism shooting this digital computer technology with clockwork mechanisms using "analog" film (please don't argue about the term analog, I know, hence the quotes). The first board I have been experimenting with is a logic board from an arcade machine. Please let me repost this story I mentioned on another thread:

Many years ago my grandfather had this massive logic board hanging up in his shop. In retirement he repaired electronics, including arcade machines, and this is one that was pulled from a broken machine. He died tragically in a car crash when I was a young teenager. I saved this board, among a few other things from his shop, before my grandmother's family threw most things away (that's another story...). I just recently rediscovered this logic board in some stored stuff at my parent's house, and decided I should make some photographs of it. I looked up this logic board and discovered it was made in 1975 for the Midway arcade machine "Wheels." It's apparently a fairly uncommon cabinet. I found a catalog from the era and this board cost $600 back then to replace, which calculating for inflation is about $2800 today.

Here's a few images of this board:

http://www.esearing.com/Bryan/AV/photosharing/circuit-8869ss.jpg

http://www.esearing.com/Bryan/AV/photosharing/circuit-8868ss.jpg

http://www.esearing.com/Bryan/AV/photosharing/circuit-8870ss.jpg

[Corran]

Next is a motherboard and Pentium 486 chip. This was actually the mainboard of my first computer. Well, it was actually my parents' computer, but it was given to me after they had it for a while. This was actually a later 486 chip, apparently released in 1992 when I was 7. I vividly remember learning MS-DOS commands and programming in QBasic with this computer. When I got into music I learned how to use the computer's built-in speaker through QBasic and programmed in simple 1-note melodies, transcribing such things as the main theme to Star Wars. Later on we upgraded to Windows 3.x and I got my first experience with a GUI (though I might've used an old Macintosh in school first). Here's a picture of the chip/socket and an abstract of the huge PCI slots:

http://www.esearing.com/Bryan/AV/photosharing/circuit-8871ss.jpg

http://www.esearing.com/Bryan/AV/photosharing/circuit-8874ss.jpg

That's all for now but I will be rooting through my bin of computer parts at my parents' house soon to unearth some more old stuff. I still have the mainboard to the first computer I built when I was about 16, as well as a ton of classic computer and audio gear that I never threw away.

All of these have been shot with my Linhof Master Technika and 150mm f/9 Schneider G-Claron, on Efke 100 film dev'd in Pyrocat.

[ghostcount]

Through hole parts
Math Co-processors
66MHz CPU
ISA slots
Gates in DIP packages
2 layer boards with no power planes

And they say aliens (http://www.newsweek.com/ufo-sighting-ex-navy-pilot-encounter-tic-tac-shaped-flying-object-752359)don't exist. :)

Good find.

[Corran]

Thanks, I had to look up some of that. I guess those are ISA slots, as opposed to the more modern term / slot of PCI. Most of this stuff is too old for me to remember specifics, or I never knew because I was too young.

I remember the big debate on graphics cards around 2003, and the competing infrastructure of PCI-e or AGP. Luckily for my computer build I chose the right one (PCI-e) since AGP got phased out, as I later needed to replace a graphics card that literally exploded. I wish I had that one to photograph! All of the capacitors on the board were split open like a banana peel from some sort of power overload.

Here's a look at the setup for these:

http://www.garrisaudiovisual.com/photosharing/btsc-3s.jpg

[Tin Can]

I look at your images, I see cities, streets, buildings.

Perhaps, we are electrons.

Recently I subscribed to Quanta Magazine Twitter Feed. https://www.quantamagazine.org/ Every few hours they teach me science and show the impossible depth of existence. I see correlation and metaphor. I told them, if they find the Switch, don't touch it!




ps: Make sure ANY gaming board or part is vetted. They are in great demand.

[Corran]

Yes, a friend of mine also mentioned cities and streets - specifically the old models used for urban planning. An interesting parallel.

I did some research and found someone in Australia that owned this arcade logic board and we discussed value. It's not worth much, which was actually a relief because if it was, I might be tempted to sell it. But I like it better on my wall as a remembrance of my grandfather. Besides which, you can see in the first photo on the upper right, there seems to be one part missing. It was likely the problematic part that caused him to have to get a replacement logic board, keeping the rest for spares later.

[Old_Dick]

Reminds me of work in the early 80's.

[Corran]

Perhaps I've progressed 50 years from my usual F/64 aesthetic? ;)

[Amedeus]

Thanks Corran for reminding me to do same.

Designed, laid out and prototyped well over 300 boards in my early career and I kept a significant amount of them for show and tell to the grand kids whenever I get those ...

The arcade board brings out memories ... fun,

Thanks for sharing ...

[Corran]

Thanks Rudi. The same grandfather I mentioned gave me a breadboard project kit when I was much too young to handle a soldering iron, but boy was it a wonderful experience. I practically taught the "Electronics" chapter in my HS physics course (my teacher admitted it wasn't really her focus and was not the strongest with the concepts). Sadly it's been a long time since I've busted out the Ohm's Law so I've forgotten a lot.

[Corran]

One more before Christmas. Tore open an old IDE hard drive to get a photo of the platter and drive head. Tried to add some interest in the reflection off the mirrored surface. I'll probably try some different angles after the holidays.

http://www.esearing.com/Bryan/AV/photosharing/circuit-8875ss.jpg

This was a tough one as the magnification was a bit over 1:1 and the effective aperture was f/128. I popped the flash 4 times at full power to get enough light.

[Jimi]

I am thinking the first three are really nice, but the other ones I feel (highly personal) have more of a "documentation" feel - I am just guessing it has something to do with the less dramatic (flatter?) light.

Keep on going, it'll be interesting to see what you come up with. :)

[Corran]

Thanks for your thoughts Jimi.

I am picking up as much old computer detritus as I can fit in my car over the holidays from storage so I'll have lots to work with in the new year :). So I'll definitely be working on this project more then.

[Havoc]

Know all of that "old" technology. Great stuff and well put on photo. I really love those old boards with their PTH components and very strict placement and routing.

Somewhere down the strata of detritus in my place there must be a box with in it: a 286, 386, 387, Pentium, PentiumPro, Pentium II (in cartridge form) and an Athlon. Guess if I delve deep enough I can get one of those running. The PDP 11/73 has gone to a museum.

[Robert Brazile]

The 11/73 was running RSTS, RSX, or Unix?

[MMELVIS]

Showing my heart, paper negative 8x10 taken with a GundlachRadarExtreme Wide Angle 159mm at F16 ,4 minute exposure. What is left of an older sharp laptop

173098

[Corran]

Commodore 64 and 5.25" floppy drive / disks:

http://www.esearing.com/Bryan/AV/photosharing/circuit-8888ss.jpg

This C64 was found in my grandfather's attic. Not sure why he had it. Unfortunately it's an off-brand floppy drive and I don't have the matching monitor. Perhaps it's time for eBay. This shot was inspired by Ken Lee's images of typewriters...trying to focus on the keys and light reflecting off the surface of the keyboard, along with a pleasing composition. Perhaps you can tell from these images that I like diagonal lines :).

Linhof Master Technika, 150mm G-Claron set at f/26 or so, one light from my Speedotron kit up high and to the right with an umbrella popped 3 times at full power, Efke 100 dev'd in Pyrocat 1:1:100 @ 70F for 9 minutes

[chassis]

Commodore 64 and 5.25" floppy drive / disks:

http://www.garrisaudiovisual.com/photosharing/circuit-8888ss.jpg

This C64 was found in my grandfather's attic. Not sure why he had it. Unfortunately it's an off-brand floppy drive and I don't have the matching monitor. Perhaps it's time for eBay. This shot was inspired by Ken Lee's images of typewriters...trying to focus on the keys and light reflecting off the surface of the keyboard, along with a pleasing composition. Perhaps you can tell from these images that I like diagonal lines :).

Linhof Master Technika, 150mm G-Claron set at f/26 or so, one light from my Speedotron kit up high and to the right with an umbrella popped 3 times at full power, Efke 100 dev'd in Pyrocat 1:1:100 @ 70F for 9 minutes

Looks nice Bryan. More tonality in the LF image. I prefer the composition of the MF image. Both are good.

[Corran]

Thanks for your thoughts! I think I can roughly match the composition by cropping in just a tad. Like you say, I think the tonality here is much better.

[Pali K]

These are all beautiful Bryan. Enjoying the concept and the photography.

Pali

[locutus]

The 11/73 was running RSTS, RSX, or Unix?

BSD2.11 is still the cutest little piece of daemon flavored UNIX ever :-)

[Robert Brazile]

BSD2.11 is still the cutest little piece of daemon flavored UNIX ever :-)

Agreed. Reminds me of the time a friend of mine and I got 2.9 running on a Pro 350 (F-11 — PDP-11 on a chip)...boot from one floppy, swap on the other. Useless, but fun. Ok, now we’re officially way OT.

[Jac@stafford.net]

Agreed. Reminds me of the time a friend of mine and I got 2.9 running on a Pro 350 (F-11 — PDP-11 on a chip)...boot from one floppy, swap on the other. Useless, but fun. Ok, now we’re officially way OT.

OT? Not until I find the pictures of my VAX 11/730 with its skin off in my home office! In short order it became a table to support my Macintosh of the week. :)

.

[Robert Brazile]

By all means, carry on. [emoji1]

Unfortunately I don’t have photos of the Perq I used to have, or the Bitgraph, for that matter...

[seezee]

Corran, these are lovely. Thanks for sharing them with us.

[Corran]

Pali and seezee, thanks!

The above convo is way over my head...that stuff is before my time, literally :).

I dug into my stuff and found a stash of interesting electron tubes, including a bunch in their original boxes! Played around tonight setting up a still life with a few of my favorite tubes. The small ones on the lower right are audio tubes (12AX7 or 12AT7) that sometimes are worth decent money. I don't know what the huge one in the back was for, but probably a big TV. Shot this with my Speedotron head w/ umbrella and a big white foamcore board on the left. It's a little dark but I want the background to be close to flat black - honestly I am not very well practiced for this kind of photo so I'm learning/practicing here. Maybe I'll flip the backdrop to white to better see the inside of the tubes.

http://www.esearing.com/Bryan/AV/photosharing/circuit-8890css.jpg

[Tin Can]

Bryan, I knew you would get there. Power the tubes up, they glow nicely. This week I was trying to shoot the inside of my 50's Magnavox tube radio. Kinda boring as most of the tubes are inside metal shielding sleeves. I will try again as soon I find my Multi Band Grundig tube radio with Shortwave. It's still packed...Then I need to setup a long wire antenna.

My Atomic Bomb image took some fiddling. The 15-watt incandescent bulb was too bright to get any inside detail. I put a solid state Variac on it and went as low as it would go. It was very dim and zee film was very sensitive. Great fun in the winter studio.


Pali and seezee, thanks!

The above convo is way over my head...that stuff is before my time, literally :).

I dug into my stuff and found a stash of interesting electron tubes, including a bunch in their original boxes! Played around tonight setting up a still life with a few of my favorite tubes. The small ones on the lower right are audio tubes (12AX7 or 12AT7) that sometimes are worth decent money. I don't know what the huge one in the back was for, but probably a big TV. Shot this with my Speedotron head w/ umbrella and a big white foamcore board on the left. It's a little dark but I want the background to be close to flat black - honestly I am not very well practiced for this kind of photo so I'm learning/practicing here. Maybe I'll flip the backdrop to white to better see the inside of the tubes.

http://www.garrisaudiovisual.com/photosharing/circuit-8890css.jpg

[Corran]

Ooh, that is an interesting idea! I will try that. Any hints on which pins might be power?

[Tin Can]

It's called the 'pinout' a diagram of each pin function. I figure as a musician you have used tube amps.

Start here. http://diyaudioprojects.com/Tubes/300B-SET-Amplifier/


Ooh, that is an interesting idea! I will try that. Any hints on which pins might be power?

[Corran]

Thanks Randy. Actually I haven't used any tube amps but I have owned/used tube microphones. I've also wired up solid-state mics using a pinout but I wasn't sure what I was looking at wrt a tube. After reading around a bit I figured out what I'm looking for is just the "heater." Being mostly ignorant on how the tube functions, I didn't realize that is what the filament was referred to as on the pinout. Now to go find some wire :).

[Tin Can]

Thanks Randy. Actually I haven't used any tube amps but I have owned/used tube microphones. I've also wired up solid-state mics using a pinout but I wasn't sure what I was looking at wrt a tube. After reading around a bit I figured out what I'm looking for is just the "heater." Being mostly ignorant on how the tube functions, I didn't realize that is what the filament was referred to as on the pinout. Now to go find some wire :).

Check for the required voltage. Safety glasses. Tubes are glass. When in doubt don't stand in water and use one hand, the other behind your back. That last one has saved my heart.

[Corran]

Good suggestions.

When I was little I used to line up AA batteries in a row on my floor and put a lightbulb at the end with a piece of wire running to the other side of the stack and see how bright it got after so many batteries.

Also I remember repairing a piece of audio gear and reaching into it and finding out that the capacitors still had a LOT of juice in them, ouch :eek:.

[chassis]

Bryan, nice work on the tubes. I would keep the black background and lower the main light, and bring it towards the camera and closer to the subject. Keep the fill to camera left and see what you get. Could be similar to what you have, but with more light on the tube bases. If you have modelling lamps you should be able to see it before exposing film. I like a pretty dark (black) background, so I try to keep the subject as far from the background as the studio will allow.

[Tin Can]

Yes, they do. My favorite preteen mistake was soldering a live circuit and putting a wire in my mouth to hold it.

Zippee!

I still test 9 volt batteries for strength with my tongue. Nobody does that anymore.



Good suggestions.

When I was little I used to line up AA batteries in a row on my floor and put a lightbulb at the end with a piece of wire running to the other side of the stack and see how bright it got after so many batteries.

Also I remember repairing a piece of audio gear and reaching into it and finding out that the capacitors still had a LOT of juice in them, ouch :eek:.

[Corran]

Thanks for the suggestions chassis! Lots to try.

Randy, I never do the 9V-on-the-tongue thing, I usually don't want to voluntarily zap myself ;), but I did use the 9V on the main tube in the front of the picture (811A) and it glowed nicely! I have to figure out if/how to incorporate into the photo. Some wire bits under the black background (it's just my darkcloth) or something. I have no sockets.

[barnacle]

Those 9v batteries can be clipped together pole to pole in a long series, with a *serious* jolt at the end - favourite trick for baby engineers :)

Bryan, the heaters on those tubes are most likely 6.3v or 12v (though there are a few valves with 1.5v heaters intended for portable radios) and you won't generate any extra volts anywhere just by powering the heaters. But the sneaky way to light 'em up is with an LED shining through the bottom of the valve, between the pins - an LED, series resistor of about 1k, and a low voltage source, say six volts.

That large tube - I don't think it's a display tube at all; it has a vacuum blip in the middle of the top surface by the look of it.

Neil (who is so old he knows a 12AX7 is the same as an ECC83... and did his engineering training when valves were still current and microprocessors was an optional module *after* the final exams!)

[Havoc]

I still test 9 volt batteries for strength with my tongue. Nobody does that anymore.

Nobody? :) Easier than finding the voltmeter. My previous collegue once did this with the client watching when checkng out an installation (they were used as third backup). Should have seen their faces.

Re the PDP 11/73 I have no idea what it ran, never had the courage to power it up.

[Corran]

Good idea on the LEDs Neil. I don't have any here to play with though.

I could only get the 811A to glow last night. I bought some 9V clip-on connectors and will wire it up and try shooting this again, along with some modification of the main lights, next week when I get the parts. Too bad Radioshack closed all their stores nearby or else I could just go buy some today...I need to research local electronic stores. I knew where they were in south GA but not up here.

[goamules]

Old analog and digital electronics are certainly beautiful. And it's amazing how expensive they were to design and buy, and then how quickly they became obsolete and were replaced by the next generation. I've worked on quite a bit of both types, and some of the military systems were quite beautiful and elegant, engineering wise. A countermeasures receiver I worked on in the Navy comes to mind. It had tuners that had a spiral track that were precisely adjusted by tiny eccentric cams every 1/2 inch along the track. A tiny wheel ran in and out based on the spiral. It was attached to a bar that made a resonant cavity larger and smaller (think the Star Wars scene in the garbage compactor).

I should have taken photos, all that stuff is in a dump, at the bottom of the sea, or in some boneyard now!

[Tin Can]

I would have a lot of industrial pictures of all kinds of very cool stuff, but cameras were banned anywhere in the factory. 24/7 I did take pics as part of my Lab work, mostly microscope work.

When they wanted images for advertising they brought in out of town pros to shoot with the best gear. In a one car garage inside the factory. Locked doors, covered windows. Paranoia runs deep.

Cummins would bring one floppy with the latest Diesel engine code. 3 guys would bring it and never let it out of their sight.

[Jac@stafford.net]

Those 9v batteries can be clipped together pole to pole in a long series, with a *serious* jolt at the end - favourite trick for baby engineers :)

Old-timers may recall the electronic flash batteries that used as many as 25 to 50 9V batteries soldered in series. Singer Graflex comes to mind.

Speaking of computer design evolution, I entered a new technological perspective in the company of several Cray engineers when they agreed that the monolithic super computer era was ending 'real soon now', and they were right.

[Tin Can]

I guess Amazon won't let me take a screenshot.

Try this link to a 1903 double glass plate of an oscillating spark.

https://books.google.com/books?id=1OlQAAAAYAAJ&lpg=PA2&ots=HJ38GotRLv&dq=ei%20for%20old%20glass%20photographic%20plates&pg=PA2#v=onepage&q=ei%20for%20old%20glass%20photographic%20plates&f=false

Notice the Lord Kelvin reference!

[faberryman]

I still test 9 volt batteries for strength with my tongue. Nobody does that anymore.
Well, if you don't have a voltmeter handy, how else would you do it?

[Corran]

Try #2 - changed out the umbrella for a large diffuser, moved the light as suggested, and decided to add a second light on the left to brighten up the background tubes. The main thing I'm a bit bummed on is the shadow on the box on the bottom center, but maybe that's just a nitpick?

http://www.esearing.com/Bryan/AV/photosharing/circuit-8892ss.jpg

Oh - I tried to get the tube to light up after finding a 9V battery connector locally and wiring it up, but it won't stay lit for more than a few seconds and then the battery gets really hot. I think I should just leave it be...

[barnacle]

Ah, yes, the heater will take significant current, hence heating the internal resistance in the battery. Also, it occurs to me that the heaters are usually largely concealed within the cathode plate framework - probably simpler just to get some LEDs :)

Neil

[locutus]

Instead of a 9V battery you could try a small wallwart DC adapter

[chassis]

Looks good Bryan. From here it's a game of finesse and fractions of an inch. Where is Christopher Broadbent when we need him?

Managing specular highlights in the glass would be my next priority, and adjusting fill to light the tube internals and boxes. The fill light can be brought towards the camera, the boxes can be angled more broadly toward the camera. For me the boxes would have a less prominent role in the image.

[Corran]

Thanks chassis, this is very helpful. I obviously need practice, practice, practice, just like any other type of photography.

I just realized this morning why the specular highlights are so wonky on the large tube and can fix that. I can adjust the boxes just a bit to get the shadow off the text. Then I might call it done and move on to a new photo. Perhaps with more practice I will revisit the tubes.

[Corran]

First photo of the new year...kinda, I shot it about an hour ago :).

Evolution of RAM

http://www.esearing.com/Bryan/AV/photosharing/circuit-8894ess.jpg

[barnacle]

Instead of a 9V battery you could try a small wallwart DC adapter

Provided it's a 6 volt output. 9v with a high current capability will just blow the heater filaments, and they won't light at all.

Neil

[locutus]

Yeah, good point :-)

As for the DRAM, you are missing a couple in DIP, ZIP (aargh!) and SIPP packages!

[barnacle]

Got some magnetic core memory somewhere around the place...

Neil

[Corran]

You're right, they aren't all that old. I'll have to Google what DIP, ZIP, or SIPP is :).

If you've got any interesting old pieces I would gladly take them to photograph!

[jp]

I love this subject... If any of you visit England, there is a very nice computer museum next to Bletchley Park (of WWII fame), which is about 1hr north of London.

[Corran]

jp - it's amazing how much of this stuff I had sitting around (and almost threw away) before coming upon the idea to photograph it. Duh! I really think the anachronism between the subject and medium is interesting.

I would like to come up with 20-30 images/prints and maybe pitch it to a gallery this year. I think I'll start with making 8x10 "proof" prints of everything and then standardize on 20x24 "gallery" prints if I get the opportunity.

[Mike Lewis]

Check for the required voltage. Safety glasses. Tubes are glass. When in doubt don't stand in water and use one hand, the other behind your back. That last one has saved my heart.

Years ago I wanted to repair an old Zenith floor-standing radio. I bought a book on how to restore old radios-- it said to pull the chassis out of the cabinet, plug it in, then turn it on. Watch the tubes. The tubes that didn't glow were bad and needed to be replaced. I did this, and in a few seconds a capacitor the size of a shotgun shell exploded "BLAM!". I looked in a mirror: my hair was blown back and my face was blackened. I looked like Wile E. Coyote after the Acme bomb blows up in his hands. It's a wonder I didn't blind myself. I replaced the capacitor and got the thing going, though.

[Corran]

Playing around with a new idea on the RAM sticks.

Linhof MT, 240mm G-Claron, Efke 100, Pyrocat:

http://www.esearing.com/Bryan/AV/photosharing/circuit-9263ss.jpg

Need to add light on the front, increase development to add contrast (edited here to show what I wanted), and probably refine the placement of the vase.

[Tin Can]

Candy bars, dripping honey with a child reaching...

2001: A Space Odyssey

[Corran]

Slightly different composition / table arrangement. Critique welcome. Trying to make one more image for a still-life call for entry coming up.

http://www.esearing.com/Bryan/AV/photosharing/circuit-9265ss.jpg

[John Layton]

I can remember...walking into my son's bedroom (after many unsuccessful knocks on the door) to wake him up for school - the minefield of circuit boards that would stick to the bottoms of my stockinged feet. So...my idea...an image of a parent at a sleeping child's bedside...looking, somewhat perplexed, at the bottom of a lifted, stockinged foot - on which resides a well-embedded circuit board! (My son is now a successful computer/robotics engineer...and thank goodness he's also married, because if he were single I'm sure his bedroom floor would still be a minefield!)

[Corran]

John, your story illustrates to me how so many of us have a story about our or a loved one's fascination with this (relatively) new technology. My conception for this series is to illustrate the "wonder" I felt when I was younger experiencing early home computers, programming, and eventually building my own systems.

I wonder how much it would resonate with younger viewers. My experience teaching students in their 20s, in a computer-based course no less, is that they had much, much less hands-on experience with computers, in terms of the insides and more technical things, which goes hand-in-hand with the rising popularity of Apple products IMO. On the other hand, talking to one of my cousins a couple of days ago, he is 18 and has built his own computer and thinking about majoring in Comp Sci.

Anyway, I need to continue to experiment with different ideas for this series and see what I can come up with. Still open to constructive comments and ideas.

[Jac@stafford.net]

Belated thank you, Corran. If I measured my age in computer-years I'd be at least 1,000 years old - the technology moves so quickly! I coded on DEC systems from the late Seventies to 2011. More lines of code than I can count. During the early years we were writing some stuff for the first time. With luck and fate some programs, functions became lib calls, includes. Today all the code I wrote in over thirty years might account for 1% of the library calls a coder uses each day today. (Big historical difference between programmers and coders. A huge paradigm shift. More power to the coders! )

[Tin Can]

I might have written about this before.

My first encounter with a 'computer was 1966. I was 15, an odd student in a new school. It had a computer club, not computer classes, simply an afterschool club for anybody interested. I and 5 others showed up. Alumni had donated a giant computer. I beleive it was a 50's relic. This thing took up 1/2 of a good sized room, floor to ceiling, wall to wall maybe 10 feet deep. I have been searching for a pic of anything like it. No luck.

I remember no large CRT's no big printer, no mag drives, but it was running lots of tubes, the room was hot, buzzing, dry. No real control panel. On the right side was the input for stacks of punch cards. Nobody explained how it worked. We were directed to punch cards with a mechanical device and input a simple math problem. 2 days later we were blessed to have our cards 'processed'. Whoopee it came up with the correct answer, which of course I knew 2 days before.

I lost interest, as it seemed slower at any calculation than a sharp human. I was 15.

I still think the problem with computers, teaching how to use them and make them better, is very few can make others understand the basics. My helpers in 80's were no better than my first computer club advisor. Make big concepts simple, piece at a time. It's all a matter of scale.

Now back to my image search...

[Corran]

Jac, thank you for sharing that. I have just realized that along with much of this outmoded technology, there is a wealth of knowledge and experience from people like you that is also being lost. I will have to ponder about if/how this could be included photographically.

Even I have vastly different experiences than those growing up now. Apologies if I have mentioned this before, but as an elementary student in a gifted course I learned basic programming using punch-cards on some old machine that took up most of a trailer.

I've been looking around on eBay to buy some additional material to photograph, but much of it is collectible and therefore expensive. Too expensive for me. I need to put out an ad on CL to simply borrow things - maybe there are some collectors in the Atlanta area.

Edit: What a funny thing Randy, to write about the same punch-card technology :). I agree with you, on that last part. I have a long story about one of my teachers in a computer class...maybe for another day. Not a happy one.

[Tin Can]

Find the nerds, and offer them a print in exchange for a little time in their horde. They are everywhere, kinda like record collectors.

I remember big trailers full of records in the early 70's. I don't know how they held the weight.

Don't forget 35mm film projectors, they are also around. Another data storage device.

[Jac@stafford.net]

[...] I still think the problem with computers, teaching how to use them and make them better, is very few can make others understand the basics.

Many of the well employed coders today have no clue of the basics.
.

[Tin Can]

Many of the well employed coders today have no clue of the basics.
.

I know that and that's why they can't explain anything. LOL

[Jac@stafford.net]

I know that and that's why they can't explain anything. LOL

To add to despair, the majority do not know why they should care. Computer routines regardless of how widely used used rarely follow the principles of proof - even the so-called mathematical/statistical routines.

[faberryman]

I started programming with punch cards and tape in high school. I haven't programmed much since, except macros, the occasional script, and html/css for my website. I took physics with a slide rule and calculus with a pencil and paper. I haven't done much physics or calculus since. I leave that stuff to the professionals. I do, however, process film and print the same way as I did back then. It is simple and straightforward. Not everything needs to be complicated or automated.

[barnacle]

Many of the well employed coders today have no clue of the basics.
.

Can't argue there; most of them seem only to know how to link to abstraction layers on top of abstraction layers on top of abstraction layers. It's fast, but there's no reason to believe it will work; certainly many can't do the formal logic required to prove the correctness of their programs. But it's ok, you can always reboot...

(I'm one of the weird ones: I not only program in high level languages, I speak a dozen machine codes, and I can design the hardware too - in fact, I can and have designed and built computers from discrete logic (i.e. no processor chip). There are still some of us out there, but we're all retiring and/or expiring...)

Neil

[Nodda Duma]

What I've found lacking is a comprehension of large system architecture / enterprise amongst good coders, and fundamental coding skills amongst architectural types ... mostly because that vertical development of skillsets takes decades to properly form. There's plenty in both camps, but that's not what I see a need for in my day job.

Fortunately people with an understanding of continuous integration / continuous development are starting to make inroads into the industries I work in...that sort of helps alleviate the "vertical skillset" issue I mention above.

Not unique to s/w platforms and embedded systems.

[jp]

Bryan, you might want to befriend some people at a metal recycling yard.. The one near here takes computer boards/parts in and there is always interesting vintage things businesses have retired. We go because we sell computer parts we recycle to them.. Nothing super interesting; mostly customers' computers a little too old to refurbish are what we recycle.

I studied computer science in college 1993-1995. One could get a degree in that without ever opening a computer or terminating a network cable. It was about software and algorithms and ways of doing things such as teamwork, HCI, etc... That's great if one can specialize like that. They sorta figured we were curious and well rounded enough that we'd tinker with hardware on our own or work with people that did the hardware.

No serious programming for me.. I happily regressed to making bash scripts and a little bit of mysql/web work as needed.

[Tin Can]

Bryan, you might want to befriend some people at a metal recycling yard.. The one near here takes computer boards/parts in and there is always interesting vintage things businesses have retired. We go because we sell computer parts we recycle to them.. Nothing super interesting; mostly customers' computers a little too old to refurbish are what we recycle.

I studied computer science in college 1993-1995. One could get a degree in that without ever opening a computer or terminating a network cable. It was about software and algorithms and ways of doing things such as teamwork, HCI, etc... That's great if one can specialize like that. They sorta figured we were curious and well rounded enough that we'd tinker with hardware on our own or work with people that did the hardware.

No serious programming for me.. I happily regressed to making bash scripts and a little bit of mysql/web work as needed.

I worked in a old style factory, we punched holes and formed metal sheets by stamping. I was in testing. The best job in the place.

The family owned company came up with an ingenious method of getting the workforce ready for computers. 1997 they introduced a computer purchase program for all 2500 employees. They specified certain retail vendors to get a written quote from. Take that to HR and they cut a check made out to the vendor. The smart part was it was an interest free loan paid bimonthly from your paycheck and paid in off 18 months. Cost them very little in the long run and they got computers into every home. The workforce trained themselves on their time. I bought a $3500 Compaq Laptop. That was the loan limit. They did this for years and as prices droped they dropped the max loan to $2000. Every 18 months I paid one off and bought another better, bigger. I don't have any of those 'clunkers' now but I learned a bit and I still have every hard drive from them.

The coolest one I bought was a Vaio PCG-C1X PictureBook. Hard to get. Very small 2 Lbs. It could do anything in a very tiny device even for now. Reversable camera, Firewire that actually worked well at video editing with my grey market Firewire Sony Camcorder. At that time i was in school and this Sony gear blew away anything Apple in the 'Video Edit' Labs, Macs always crashed. I never used them. Junk.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_Vaio_C1_series

Sony Vaio was better than Apple for a while. Now i use iOS and WIN, always updated asap.

[Corran]

Good suggestion jp. I will look around at what is available.

Randy, I wish I could remember what my first laptop was. This was late 90's, and the silly thing was like a build-your-own computer kit. Each component inside fit together like Lego, and the inside was easily accessible by lifting up the keyboard. I wrote a lot of music when I was learning composition on that laptop, on some MIDI program my parents found at a software expo. I stupidly threw it away at some point when cleaning out my stuff when my parents were moving.

[Tin Can]

Good suggestion jp. I will look around at what is available.

Randy, I wish I could remember what my first laptop was. This was late 90's, and the silly thing was like a build-your-own computer kit. Each component inside fit together like Lego, and the inside was easily accessible by lifting up the keyboard. I wrote a lot of music when I was learning composition on that laptop, on some MIDI program my parents found at a software expo. I stupidly threw it away at some point when cleaning out my stuff when my parents were moving.

I have given up on clearing out stuff.

As soon as I get rid of anything including even the 'junk drawer' stuff I gave to my good friend for her Bots, I remember a use and a right now need for a 'whatever'. A mechanic needs a near photograghic memory to get anything done or he/she spends a lifetime searching...

I have a rule, from the factory. If I send my helper for the special bolt I need right now, I train them to always get 3 or 5. Some take a while to understand why. It was a 10-minute walk in the million sq ft factory. I know some of my helpers wanted to get away from me. I can be real intense on a dangerous project. They also hate it when I say failure is not an option. LOL. It was not considering what we were making.

But when the one bolt is found defective, the helper better have 2 more to use. Bolts are peanuts compared to our billing time. I had one genius complain about the cost of hose clamps. He found out I never reused one and always used 2 at time. 100's a week. Then I showed him the cost of a fire...that happened from his cost savings. And not on my watch. Bean counters.

[Corran]

I was matting this print and thought of Jac. This one's for you, RIP.

http://www.esearing.com/Bryan/AV/photosharing/digital-super-1114.jpg

Also I updated all my photo links to fix missing photos after switching hosting.

[Tin Can]

Yes, RIP Jac

Your comment below the pic may be impossible for many

I will be changing host soon

The Internet is not forever, Prints may be...


I was matting this print and thought of Jac. This one's for you, RIP.

http://www.esearing.com/Bryan/AV/photosharing/digital-super-1114.jpg

Also I updated all my photo links to fix missing photos after switching hosting.

[Corran]

The change in the forum to allow indefinite editing of posts is helpful in that regard.

[Tin Can]

You have posted a lot of images, didn't that take a whole of time to change?

My problem is I have used Flickr and that is the problem

I will be making a website, sooner or later...

[Corran]

Since I upload directly, including my own filenames which don't change as I do keep the edited small files for web posting, all I had to do was copy & paste the changed www address in the post. Took me a few minutes to do all of them in this thread (according to time stamps, under 4 minutes).

Yes, updating Flickr links would probably take much longer.

[Greg]

In 1992 we were one of the first photo departments in the country to acquire a Kodak DCS 200 along with a couple of Macs and a Kodak Dye Sublimation printer. At one dedication we were actually able to take a picture of the main speaker, and an hour later present him with a framed color print as he was leaving. We also used to label photographs for the researchers for publication. Worst thing was when a text correction had to be made.... with layers yet to come, and if I remember correctly, editing text was not possible or something like that. Digital files were archived on DAT cassettes which would frequently jam up in the player/reader. A few years later our director decided that our department would be the place to come to when people wanted prints made... he believed that none of the other departments in the institution would be able to buy desktop printers, let alone even get Photoshop. At that point I realized that our department's future was soon doomed. He also believed that getting involved in building the institution's initial website was a waste of time and energy. "Let someone else take on that crazy idea" was basically his view.

[Jim Jones]

Ah, those space age motherboards! From 1956 to 1959 I was one of a few repairmen on a one-of-a-kind computer, contemporary with Univac 1 & 2, that had no printed boards. Everything was hard-wired. We were still finding connections that were never soldered. Mean time between failures was perhaps a few hours. At least we never had a transistor fail: there was only one in the whole computer, an improvised addition to the original design. But we did have over 10,000 vacuum tubes and twice that many germanium diodes. The diodes were apparently hand assembled and sere less reliable than the VTs. Of course the computer needed a room to itself with massive air conditioning for the 14 cabinets. We couldn't tell the computer to add one and one: that wasn't in its program.
Years later I thought my Tandy 1000 HX with a 4.77 clock rate (fifty times that of the VT computer) and almost instant initialization instead of the diagnostic program we had to run on the older computer to weed out anything that had failed overnight. The Tandy's DOS 2.1, the program, and almost all memory were stored on one 720k diskette. Back then those diskettes came unformatted and cost several dollars. We've come a long way since those days, too.

[Tin Can]

Yes, Flickr will prove to be a bad choice...

My first couple years here I used the standard forum image hosting regimen often warning people that did not, of the impending mess, but changed to Flickr links to compete with the large screen images possible.

As I search in time on this Forum, it is riddled with lost image links.

For me digital anything is ephemeral.

I suppose data historians in future may find our files, but I won't.