Switching back to condensor head, 45MCRX, from cold light

[Paul Ron]

Ive been using my Beseler 45MCRX enlarger for over 30 years with a cold light. Seeing so many people using LED bulbs these days I was thinking of putting my condenser head back on with an LED bulb.

The light chamber of the regular head has a semi gloss cone inside where the bulb is. My question is this....

Should I paint the cone ultra flat black to reduce reflection or flat white to increase the light?

will it make any difference painting it?



edit... sorry I see this should have gone in Equipment.

[xkaes]

Just curious, why use an LED bulb? Is the regular 212 not bright enough or is there some special result that is achieved with LED.

I must admit, I like them in my flashlights, but I have a lifetime supply of 212s, and they are plenty bright enough for me.

The interior of my CB7 and 45MXII condenser heads are white, as you describe, but the interior of my CB7 point light head (with a tiny bulb) is black. I have no idea why -- but an LED would be closer to the size of the PLS bulb. There must be a reason, so perhaps black will work better. That is just a guess. They both seem to create the same illumination edge to edge for me. Beseler must have done it for a reason.

One point (ha,ha) to consider is, the point light source head is taller than the condenser head body. Again, I don't know why. Beseler must have done it for a reason.

[Luis-F-S]

So it's worked for 30 years and you feel a need to change it?

[Jim Noel]

"One point (ha,ha) to consider is, the point light source head is taller than the condenser head body. Again, I don't know why. Beseler must have done it for a reason."
The additional height is necessary in order to focus the light correctly for various sized prints.

[xkaes]

That is what the adjustable condenser stage is for -- to focus the light correctly for various sized prints. You have not answered my question, nor have you offered an explanation. Have you ever actually used a Point Light Source?

And how does that help Paul get it right about using an LED light(s) in his standard condenser assembly?

[Paul Ron]

LED bulbs run cool. the physical bulb size are the same.

yup 30 years of cold light. i love it, but im looking for that extra snap of condeners. i still have the cold light and can and will interchange them at random as i may chose for other situations or just may never use the one or the other ever again.

i thought about white. it would reflect more light to the negatives.
but black will reduce the reflected stray light and may give a better sharper print... i mean contrast boost.


edit: why do this? because i can.

[xkaes]

I had been only thinking of the tiny LED bulbs, not the "normal" size bulbs. That should work fine and I assume you can get one brighter, dimmer, or the same "wattage" output as the 212. If the "normal" size LED bulbs are like normal incandescent bulbs they will be imprinted on the top. Bulbs designed for enlargers have this info imprinted on the side instead so that it won't show up on the print!! Is that an issue with these LED bulbs? Also, I have read that LED bulbs have a different color spectrum (bluer?) than incandescent. With VC paper that might require adjustment. Others will know about this and chime in.

[xkaes]

i thought about white. it would reflect more light to the negatives.
but black will reduce the reflected stray light and may give a better sharper print... i mean contrast boost.

Interesting question. That might be why the interior of the point light source head is black instead of the normal condenser head. You could always run some tests first. One would be just try to use your condenser head with the regular 212 bulb (or what you have). As I recall the dimmer version is a 211. That might meet your needs. Another test would be to compare the condenser head as is vs painted black. That would take time and trouble -- especially if you find out the black version is not what you like. But paint in spray cans would make it easier.

Have you already compared the results from the cold light and condenser heads? I know there is a difference, but some people consider it more substantial than others.

[ic-racer]

My one condenser enlarger projects the image of back-illuminated frosted disk, so bulb physical characteristics are not that important.
However, most all other condenser enlargers project the image of the bulb. So the size, color and texture of the bulb will alter the projected image. Good thing is that nothing is occult, you will be able to detect uneven illumination easily with testing.

[Paul Ron]

this all started because I decided to overhaul my enlarger, took her completely apart. I lubed and cleaned everything and went over the rollers n bearings. Now Ive got it back together doing the fine adjusts.

I was intrigued about using LEDs after reading so much about it on APUG and here. The one reason I went to cold light 30 years ago was the heat issue. With LEDs running so cool, I felt it was time to try condensers again. Besides, I see lots of posts about condensers being a bit more contrasty. Its been a long time for me so I dont really remember the differences. But hey, Ive got time on my side to play with it.

LED bulbs (at least the ones I have) dont have the writing on the end of the bulb, its on the bottom plastic flange. I have a nice choice of color temps and wattage to chose from. The bright white is much closer to a regular 212. But reading the 4000K responds better to VC papers. We'll see next week. If I had a prism to separate the color bands, I would be able to see a more realistic difference but I dont have a prism.

I compared the light image of the 212 and the LED, they are both the same diameter and intensity. I did notice a shadow ring around the circles when holding the lamp house over the table before mounting it on the enlarger. I contributed the shadow ring to be reflections from the semi gloss black paint Beseler is using in the light box. Which got me thinking to paint it ultra flat black, which raised the question, WHITE OR BLACK.

Im going to use white paper in the lamp house as an experiment to see if it makes any difference. I have a feeling I'll probably paint it flat black anyway.

[xkaes]

My one condenser enlarger projects the image of back-illuminated frosted disk

I've read about these, but never used one. Assuming the disk is easy to remove, you would have the best of both worlds. Is the disc above the condenser or below it?

Beseler made an interesting adapter for (most of?) their 45 enlargers that allows you to place their diffusion color heads ON TOP of the standard condenser assembly. That may sound odd. They advertised it as a way to add more UMMMPH or PUNCH to your color images without loosing the benefits of the color head. I have one, but I never used it because there are ways to add PUNCH in the color developing process.

[xkaes]

I see lots of posts about condensers being a bit more contrasty.

It's true, they are more contrasty. I would put it at about a one VC grade increase. Others may think differently. But that's not the only difference. The image is also sharper, so grain and any blemishes show up a little more clearly. If you use a point light source, this is glaring. So it's a win-lose situation -- no matter which way you go. That's why I have so many different enlarger heads. One size fits all for some people, but not everyone -- or every shot.

[Paul Ron]

Quick update....

I painted the inside of the cone ultra flat black.

Before painting.....
I put in a 9x12 neg, focused at 11x14 image. I traced the image area on a paper, then removed the neg carrier. I traced the light circle and the fall off hallow around the circle which was about 1 inch all the way around just nipping at my 11x14 image corners.

Painting flat black has reduced some of the fall off at the edge of the light circle by about 1/2 inch.

BTW both the 212 and the LED bulb produce the same light circles.
The LED is a "Bright White" that looks to be the same color as the 212 bulb, maybe just a tad brighter.

[xkaes]

As to your interest in an above-the-lens filter holder, these are relatively easy as a DIY project. I know because I just built an above-the-lens filter holder for my CB7. The holder for the MX is a thin sheet of clear Plexiglas (easy to scratch) -- square in the front and round in the back -- with a thin rim of metal around it (to keep the filter in place. It uses 6" filters, but you have to trim them in the rear so that they are round. Plexiglas like this is easy and cheap. You can probably get a piece at a craft store. Cutting it will require the correct tool(s).

On my CB7, I cut a ~7x9" sheet of plain window glass. The interior of the CB7 head is rectangular and glass is easy to cut and less likely to scratch. I rimmed the edges of the glass with thin plastic strips and a little epoxy glue. You could do the same. I can send you a picture of the genuine MX holder and my home-made CB7 holder if that helps.

[xkaes]

BTW both the 212 and the LED bulb produce the same light circles.
The LED is a "Bright White" that looks to be the same color as the 212 bulb, maybe just a tad brighter.

That's nice to know in case I ever run out of 212's -- not happening anytime soon!

[Paul Ron]

As to your interest in an above-the-lens filter holder, these are relatively easy as a DIY project. I know because I just built an above-the-lens filter holder for my CB7. The holder for the MX is a thin sheet of clear Plexiglas (easy to scratch) -- square in the front and round in the back -- with a thin rim of metal around it (to keep the filter in place. It uses 6" filters,s)......


I did exactly that for 30 years using the plastic. I siliconed mine in, painted the rim black so it wouldn't leak white light and left it there permanently. all I did was slide the gels in the door. That stupid condenser separator isn't a clean radius and makes it hard to get a good fit.

BUT while revamping my enlarger I took the old out and thought it was about time to get an official holder. BUT I see these holders are as rare as chicken lips. so Fred, its back to the stone age.

This is my template to cut gels... glad I kept it, it will serve as my template for a new plastic.

I may try my hand at cutting it out of glass... hahaha that should be fun.

[Paul Ron]

That's nice to know in case I ever run out of 212's -- not happening anytime soon!


The LED bulb is so much cooler. Its been on all day, forgot to shut it off this morning. I can still remove the bulb bare handed, the lamp house is just warm.

Now for some printing as soon as I get my filters back in order.

[neil poulsen]

Interesting. I have a Beseler adapter for my Zone VI that will also hold an D2 Omega condenser head that I've kept. I print w/a color head. But some day, who knows, I may decide to my D2 a try.

[Pere Casals]

LED bulb.



Just a suggestion, you may use a RGB adjustable light:


172999

By using/rewiring components of a (until 200w) Floodlight you may use the RGB feature, you may need a disipador for the back of the led.

> Equivalent to 1.5kw or 2kw of halogen power, but with low heat (ni IR)

> Can adjust power with remote command

> Press "Red" and you have a safety light

> Press "Yellow" or "Magenta" to print with Split Grade, you can control contrast by adjusting different times for each color, once you calibrate it you won't need contrast filters.

This "color head" management may need some wiring or even DIY electronic circuits or integration, but it may end in a very convenient and powerful system.

[Paul Ron]

woooooooooo that looks great!

what diy does that need? i have no problem with diy but id like to see more details. have any links for all the details and availability of parts n controllers etc??

did you build one?

[LabRat]

One big plus using even white LED would be that most of the wattage is wasted heating up and using the IR and red end of the spectrum, just to obtain the green/blue wavelengths, so the full spectrum output of the LED will provide a much brighter source up there with much less wattage/heat...

You did the right thing blacking out the inside lamp housing as the condenser just wants to see the even bulb surface at exactly the right height to focus to the condenser, but bright outer light can focus differently and cause outer ring, "kidney bean" effects, etc in the illumination field...

Underexpose a piece of photo paper from a set up/focused enlarger without a neg to see how even it is...

Steve K

[Pere Casals]

woooooooooo that looks great!

what diy does that need? i have no problem with diy but id like to see more details. have any links for all the details and availability of parts n controllers etc??

did you build one?

I'll send you a PM with some ebay links of suggested led control gear

Regards

[Paul Ron]

the kidney bean effect reduced as soon as i used the flat black in the light head. i also painted the condenser chamber n that further reduced that kidney bean effect.

ive been using my light meter to see how even my image circle is along the edges compared to the hot center.

taking my compulsiveness to the nth degree... i blackened the bulb base and the condenser edges. everything is slowly getting better.

the rgb led sounds like my next step though.... thanks Pere.

EDIT: an observation... Im noticing some differences between condenser and diffusion that Ive grown fond of over the years...

the condensers are a PITA focusing to stay in that even light without clipping the corners, where diffusion never needed any focusing and was even across the board.

Also the choice of lens makes a huge difference with condensers. Im finding I have to match the lens to the format, its much more critical now.