Copal 1 and Copal 1 Press Shutter sizes

[Ari]

Hi,
I'm going to soon have my old Kowa Graphic 210 back from a long-term loan.
It's in an older Copal 1 Press shutter, and I'd like to put it in a newer-style Copal 1 shutter.
Are both shutters the same size, or are there any differences that would make this not worth the effort?
Thanks in advance.

[Dan Fromm]

Copal #1 = Copal #1 = Copal #1 ...

The only difference between cock-and-shoot and press Copals is that press shutters have slightly shorter rear tubes and slightly longer rear tubes. Total tube length is the same. This can be a problem with lenses whose rear cells go deep into the shutter. That's not your Kowa Graphic.

[Ari]

Merci, monsieur Dan!

[Dan Fromm]

De rien.

Vous avez tort. Je suis un etatsunisien anglophone qui ne parle, lis, et entends qu'anglais.

[Ari]

N'aillez pas peur, je ne le dirais à personne.
Mon secret, je suis un américanophile qui se cache au Canada. Aussi anglophone unilingue.

[Pfsor]

De rien.

Vous avez tort. Je suis un etatsunisien anglophone qui ne parle, lis, et entends qu'anglais.

Correctement - ...anglophone qui ne parle, lit et entend que l'anglais.


N'aillez pas peur, je ne le dirais à personne.

Correctement - N'ayez pas peur, je ne le dirai à personne

Ah, quand deux anglophones parlent franglais...:)

[consummate_fritterer]

Si muy compuesta del con carne y el gato es la perra.

Nein fraulein!

[Leigh]

...press shutters have slightly shorter rear tubes and slightly longer rear tubes.
That's quite a trick.

- Leigh

[Pfsor]

That's quite a trick.

- Leigh

Indeed. Maybe that's why whatever Copal 1 Press shutter you choose, it's always the same length... :)

[pepeguitarra]

How do you focus (keep the lens open) when using a Copal Press shutter?

[Ari]

It has an open/close lever, like many shutters.

[Bob Salomon]

Copal #1 = Copal #1 = Copal #1 ...

The only difference between cock-and-shoot and press Copals is that press shutters have slightly shorter rear tubes and slightly longer rear tubes. Total tube length is the same. This can be a problem with lenses whose rear cells go deep into the shutter. That's not your Kowa Graphic.

And a big difference in the range of shutter speeds. Also it is easier to find cable releases for the Copal 1 and 0 shutters.

[pepeguitarra]

I cannot find it. The only way I can keep it open is if I keep the shutter release cable pressed in B.

[Corran]

The only Press shutter I have, which is a #0, has no open/close lever. Instead, you must use a locking cable release on "B" to view through the lens for composition.

I have no idea what variations of Press-type shutters there are or if a #1 is different.

[pepeguitarra]

he Copal Press shutters, available in the #0 and #1 size, are high performance, durable self-cocking shutters designed for professional photographers. Their shutter release lever exposes film or digital sensors as fast as you can reload a holder or download an image.
Originally designed for press photographers who neededed to shoot quickly, they feature two unique advantages versus the conventional "cock and release" Copal shutters supplied with large format lenses: they are always cocked (because the act of firing the shutter readies the springs for another exposure), and the shutter can be quickly opened to its maximum aperture via a lever or a cable release (there are two cable relase sockets on Copal Press shutters).
The click-stop lever controls shutter speeds from 1 second to 1/125th second, plus "Bulb". The flash sync terminal is the standard "PC" type.

Open/Close Shutter with Lever or Cable Release

Open or close the shutter quickly with the lever. When the lever is down, the shutter is automatically cocked. Additionally, while cocked the shutter can be opened to the maximum aperture by pressing a cable release inserted to the dedicated socket. You can leave the aperture setting at the taking aperture, allowing groundglass examination at the brightest possible aperture, and the moment you release pressure on the cable release you'll be ready to shoot at the taking aperture.

These are the instructions Adorama provides. But, I only see ONE cable release port, and one lever to cock/shoot. If any one has a photo to show me, I appreciate.

[Corran]

But, I only see not cable release port, and one lever to cock/shoot.

I can't decipher that. Regardless, do you have a locking cable release? If your shutter is like mine, that's how you keep the shutter open.

[Dan Fromm]

Bryan, I have to confess that I was mistaken. I just looked at my three Copal #0 Press shutters. All have a cock/release lever and, next to it, a cable release socket for cocking and releasing the shutter. All have a preview lever and, next to it, a cable release socket. If a cable release is inserted in this second socket with the preview lever set to "shutter closed" pressing the cable release will open the shutter, releasing it will close the shutter.

My shutters are complete, yours and pepeguitarras are clearly defective and should be returned for refunds.:o

[Corran]

Dan, you had me convinced for a moment that I was wrong and had just not noticed an additional cable socket or something. But no, my shutter has nothing but a singular cable release socket that fires and cocks the shutter, aperture and shutter speed control levers, and a flash socket. No preview levers. Attached is the Nikon AR-3 (I think that's the model #) locking cable release. This is the shutter I've been using with the attached 150mm G-Claron lens for my studio photos lately. It can only be previewed with the Bulb mode locked with the cable release.

Admittedly, it does not say "Press" on it, but my assumption has always been that it was covered by whomever affixed the large "G-Claron" tag to the shutter. I have no idea the history of this lens, except I bought it for just $50 on eBay 5 years ago or so from a random person who didn't know what it was. Is this a Press shutter? (Excuse the dust)

http://www.garrisaudiovisual.com/photosharing/gcpress1.jpg

http://www.garrisaudiovisual.com/photosharing/gcpress2.jpg

http://www.garrisaudiovisual.com/photosharing/gcpress3.jpg

[pepeguitarra]

Now,I understand it. I would return it, if I had not gotten it from the inside of an Oscillator 7000 Polaroid camera. I will have to keep the shutter release cable in B, pushed while focussing.

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4663/40389394962_e791281d73_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/24x5cYE)20180222_214247 (https://flic.kr/p/24x5cYE) by Palenquero Photography (https://www.flickr.com/photos/palenquero/), on Flickr


https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4769/38622410900_697559d5ce_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/21QVXbd)20180222_214243 (https://flic.kr/p/21QVXbd) by Palenquero Photography (https://www.flickr.com/photos/palenquero/), on Flickr


https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4700/40433145351_47787d8e7a_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/24AWrrH)20180222_213947 (https://flic.kr/p/24AWrrH) by Palenquero Photography (https://www.flickr.com/photos/palenquero/), on Flickr


https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4630/26562106638_d13ffa65ec_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/GtcJTQ)20180222_214044 (https://flic.kr/p/GtcJTQ) by Palenquero Photography (https://www.flickr.com/photos/palenquero/), on Flickr

[Dan Fromm]

Gentlemen, thanks for the pictures.

Bryan, yours is a Copal Polaroid shutter. Or Polaroid Copal shutter. They were made for Polaroid GelCams and possibly -- I say possibly because all of the MP-3 shutters I've seen have been Prontor Press shutters with no preview lever and a cable release socket for preview -- the MP-3. They don't all conform to the Compur/Copal/Prontor specification. Typical differences are no preview lever, restricted diaphragm and slightly off tube length. Check yours. Its tube length might be the correct (for #0 and #1) 20 mm. It also might not. My Polaroid #1s' tubes are a bit long and their diaphragms don't open the full 30 mm.

Man of Palenque, did you mean to say Shackman 7000 oscilloscope camera? If so, the shutter was made to be buried deep inside the device. A preview lever wouldn't have been usable so Shackman didn't pay for one. GelCam shutters are also buried deep inside the device so don't need a preview lever.

You both have custom shutters, not general purpose shutters as sold to lens makers.

[John Layton]

I have a couple of the polaroid press shutters that I'd like to press (pun intended) into service. I can compensate for the restricted diaphragm opening....but do notice the slight difference tube length, as mentioned above. Would somewhat like Grimes be able to reconfigure this...or might it be more cost effective to simply look for the correct Copal Press shutter? I'll contact Grimes about this also...but am wondering if anyone here has dealt with this issue.

[Dan Fromm]

John, it depends on the lens. I've bought a few GelCam 127/4.7 Tominons for the #1 Copal Press shutters they were in, ended up keeping one as is for general use. Fine lenses.

Anyway, I wanted to put a 210 plasmat type in one of the shutters, was concerned about the ill effects of, IIRC and I don't feel like going upstairs to measure, its 20.2 tube length on the lens performance. I asked my friend Eric Beltrando (visit his site dioptrique.info) what he thought about it. He replied that plasmats aren't particularly sensitive to cell spacing. He thought that increasing the distance between the cells by 0.001 focal lengths wouldn't hurt. He cautioned me that dagor types' performance is more sensitive to cell spacing and that I should put them only in shutters that met the specs.

I'm sure that Adam and Joel can trim the tubes for you. Whether it makes sense economically is an interesting question, depends on how much they'll charge and how much you'll have to pay for shutters that meet the spec.

I've never had to deal with the problem. I accumulated more #0 and #1 press shutters than I needed when Sirchie mug shot cameras sold for less than shipping costs and when a fellow somewhere in NJ sold of a bunch of NOS Prontor Press #1s.

[Corran]

Bryan, yours is a Copal Polaroid shutter. Or Polaroid Copal shutter. They were made for Polaroid GelCams and possibly -- I say possibly because all of the MP-3 shutters I've seen have been Prontor Press shutters with no preview lever and a cable release socket for preview -- the MP-3. They don't all conform to the Compur/Copal/Prontor specification. Typical differences are no preview lever, restricted diaphragm and slightly off tube length. Check yours. Its tube length might be the correct (for #0 and #1) 20 mm. It also might not. My Polaroid #1s' tubes are a bit long and their diaphragms don't open the full 30 mm

Gotcha - I wrongly assumed that since it was a self-cocking Copal, it was a Press. My mistake. Never considered the Polaroid shutters. Not sure on the tube length, I'll have to check another day, but the lens has always performed excellently both close up and at distance so it seems like it is either correct or close enough that it doesn't matter. I'm happy to have it - the self-cocking shutter also helps shooting studio work with multiple flash pops.

[Dan Fromm]

Bryan, it is a Copal Press, Polaroid GelCam version.

[Corran]

Ah, okay :).

Too many brand/trade names.