Darkness conditions for hand-cutting BW, C41, E6

[Justin K]

Hello everyone,

I've searched the forum for some guidance on these somewhat elementary questions, but I couldn't find any definitive answers, so here goes:

1. How dark does my "darkroom" need to be to safely hand-cut film (by "safely" I mean so as not to cause fogging, ruin the film etc, let alone slice my fingers off)? Can I use a red safelight as I do when printing BW?

2. Same question but for C41 and E6. I assume no safelight for these.

I ask because I'm looking into cutting down 8x10 film to 5x8 (just one cut, phew!) but I don't have a "real" darkroom: I print in a basement dark enough to print BW under safelight without any problems, but definitely not 100% dark (light seeps in from ambient light outdoors, from lights on upstairs and so on).

Thank you for any advice!

[Jac@stafford.net]

Total darkness.

[Drew Wiley]

Dark, dark, and more dark.

[xkaes]

Can you image how they manufactured these films in TOTAL blackness? And still do?

[Jac@stafford.net]

Can you image how they manufactured these films in TOTAL blackness? And still do?

Infrared goggles, and also blind persons.
.

[Greg]

When I was a student at The Rochester Institute of Technology in the 1970s, we used to use an automatic feed through film processor. You'd step inside a small "booth", close the door behind you, open up your film, and feed it into the processor. If you turned around and looked at the bottom of the door, you'd see a strip of light coming through. Visually disturbing, but none of that light coming in would directly fall upon the film, and any of it reflected inside the booth was enough to fog film. And we used 2475 film rating it at ASA 1250 or 3,000 (can't remember which).

Come to a year ago when I finished building my current darkroom, I started to process B&W film and sometimes got a strip of fog on the film. Took me a while to find the light leak. It was on the side of a switch plate which directed the slightest bit of light onto the film as I was loading or unloading it in the film holders. Standing there, the light leak was not to be seen by my eyes, but if I rested the side my head on the counter where the film was, I would immediately see the light leak.

Yes "total darkness" where the film is being handled. Standing in front to the counter that I use to load and unload film, I can see the indicator lights from 3 power strips, bright dials from 2 GraLab timers, and one or two light leaks in the ceiling, BUT none of the light from any of them falls on my film so no problems.

In passing... I used to cut film (Whole Plate from 8x10) in a Rialta RV at night. Windows were blocked out as best as possible. Worked the first few times without problems. Then the last time I did that was when another full size RV entered the RV park at night with its high beams on, illuminated the side of my Rialta as he drove by... It was like a moving light show inside the Rialta. Just threw away the film that I was cutting.

[peter k.]

Used a dark bag.. and you can do it at your kitchen table.
I've cut 4x5 down to 9x12, 3x4 and MF size, by using a small paper cutter with a fixed edge, that the film rests against. Cut with the emulsion side up, and when setting it to cut, grip the and adjust with the edge your cutting off, or use white darkroom cotton gloves.

[xkaes]

Infrared goggles, and also blind persons.
.

So I guess for IR film, it's just the blind, right?

[xkaes]

Used a dark bag.. and you can do it at your kitchen table.
I've cut 4x5 down to 9x12, 3x4 and MF size, by using a small paper cutter with a fixed edge, that the film rests against. Cut with the emulsion side up, and when setting it to cut, grip the and adjust with the edge your cutting off, or use white darkroom cotton gloves.

Your bag is a LOT bigger than mine!

[sepiareverb]

I set up a paper cutter with strips of gaff tape at the proper position, cut all the film in one direction, then box it up turn on the lights and set the gaff tape for the other cut. Not too hard, and the paper cutter has a metal bar as a safety guard to help save fingers.

[Tin Can]

Really not hard. Best to sit down and totally relax. Slow down, no sweating. I use an 8x10 paper safe when changing my cutting guides.

You will have to check, but cutting 8x10 exactly in half for 5X8 may not fit holders. Might need a second sliver cut. Practice eyes shut with paper.

I cut X-Ray under red LED which gives me practice for 'real' film.

[Justin K]

Thank you all for the very helpful replies. Two quick follow-ups:

1. Is a guillotine or a rotary cutter better for film cutting in the dark?
2. Any specific model to recommend for this purpose?

Thanks again.

[Greg]

Have and use RotaTrim and Dahle rotary cutters almost on a daily basis and can recommend both brands 100%

[Justin K]

Have and use RotaTrim and Dahle rotary cutters almost on a daily basis and can recommend both brands 100%

Thank you for this and your earlier reply, very helpful. Since you're doing this almost on a daily basis, I assume you've got a film cutting method down that works for you. If you have a moment to share what you do, would love to hear it. For instance, do you use tape, some other "template" to cut by, something else entirely? I have a jumbo harrison film changing tent that I will have to use since my "darkroom" is not dark enough, so will probably need a small cutter (8x10 being the max size I'll have to cut down).

Thanks again!

[seezee]

Thank you all for the very helpful replies. Two quick follow-ups:

1. Is a guillotine or a rotary cutter better for film cutting in the dark?
2. Any specific model to recommend for this purpose?

Thanks again.

I use a Dahle guillotine cutter with an edge stop, but that's x-ray film under a red light. Not sure how difficult or dangerous that would be in total darkness.

[seezee]

Thank you for this and your earlier reply, very helpful. Since you're doing this almost on a daily basis, I assume you've got a film cutting method down that works for you. If you have a moment to share what you do, would love to hear it. For instance, do you use tape, some other "template" to cut by, something else entirely? I have a jumbo harrison film changing tent that I will have to use since my "darkroom" is not dark enough, so will probably need a small cutter (8x10 being the max size I'll have to cut down).

Thanks again!

I have 2 pieces of Dyno label tape on my cutter & set the edge stop against the appropriate tape depending on whether I'm cutting the long side or the short side of the sheet.

172352

[Leigh]

Dark, as in totally black.

Not sorta, not kinda, not almost... etc.

Use a paper cutter and you'll get the right size with nice straight edges.
Be sure to clip the upper right corner of the piece you cut off so you orient it in the holder correctly.

- Leigh

[Justin K]

Dark, as in totally black.

Not sorta, not kinda, not almost... etc.

Use a paper cutter and you'll get the right size with nice straight edges.
Be sure to clip the upper right corner of the piece you cut off so you orient it in the holder correctly.

- Leigh

Thanks Leigh, and great point about clipping off a bit of the top-right corner.

[Michael Kadillak]

In complete darkness - Infrared monocle with the IR light source on the unit turned off. Separate IR light source LED bounced off of an adjacent wall so only IR illuminates the darkroom. It is like working with the lights on as you can see with sharpness and clarity without harming the film. I cut film, load holders and process film by inspection with the same IR monocle I have had for over 10 years. It works like a champ with never any problems.

The issue with working in total darkness is what do you do when you have a mistake and move something out of place?

[Justin K]

In complete darkness - Infrared monocle with the IR light source on the unit turned off. Separate IR light source LED bounced off of an adjacent wall so only IR illuminates the darkroom. It is like working with the lights on as you can see with sharpness and clarity without harming the film. I cut film, load holders and process film by inspection with the same IR monocle I have had for over 10 years. It works like a champ with never any problems.

The issue with working in total darkness is what do you do when you have a mistake and move something out of place?

Thank you Michael--this sounds like a great approach. Do you have an IR monocle and separate IR light source LED to recommend? I know nothing about those (yet!).

[Michael Kadillak]

Thank you Michael--this sounds like a great approach. Do you have an IR monocle and separate IR light source LED to recommend? I know nothing about those (yet!).

Ken Lee (of this forum) on his website under the tech section has some comments on night vision goggles. I wrote a summary of my experiences with these probably 8 years ago on the Azo forum but that forum has been discontinued.

Quick comments. Focus needs to be capable of about 18" minimum and out to be able to see your film in your hands. Headset is advised to keep your hands free. I turn the IR light source off on my monocle to ensure the red glow does not add fog to my film and only use the headset to collect the IR light that collimates it to one of my eyes so I can see in the dark. You should have a focus at the end of the monocle as well as at the eye piece and a cap to protect the collective elements of the device from room light. You can find these units online.

The external IR light source I use is a 24 LED IR circular light bank that plugs into the wall for power. You can find them on Amazon for $20 +/-. They are common for security purposes. They have a red glow that shows they are in service and since I want to avoid this I just point the unit into a wall in my darkroom and only IR light bounces back. Lights up the room nicely. You can use a 36 LED light bank as well. I put a second LED light bank behind my darkroom sink and cover it with a Walmart diffusion globe (so the red glow is not present) on a foot switch on my floor so I can do development by inspection getting a light source behind my film.