Getting started in 11x14"

[Tim V]

Hi all,

It's Friday evening, I'm drinking a good beer at the end of a hard week, and I'm trawling the internet trying to figure out where to start looking for an affordable 11x14" camera. I've tried to digest the big 11x14" thread here – with people giving their inroads into the format etc. – and it seems there are a few options for someone like me who wants to wet their toes, so to speak.

To give some background, I am a fine art and documentary photograher specialising in long term projects, mainly urban landscape and portraiture. I shoot mostly with a Linhof Techno and Mamiya Leaf Credo 60 digital back; or with the same camera with 6x7cm roll film back, or Linhof Technika V and 4x5" film. I'm a two lens kind of person, with 90mm and 150mm lens equivalent in 4x5" format. I also shoot a lot of film with a Hasselblad 500cm. For all film work, I scan using an Imacon 949 or Hasselbald X1.

I'm wanting to get into 11x14" film to try recapture some of the magic that digital, despite it's amazing ease of use and results, fails to capture. ULF might be considered something of a folly for me, but I'm really keen to make real objects in the darkroom again and simply contact print everything; to really concentrate on making one shot in the field and being more decisive with my exposures. So it's not really about the detail for me, but the process, the big GG and the fact that every print is a unique object, made by hand and not computer – I'm not interested in scanning 11x14" film, only working in the darkroom where my career started. The format has the extra presence over 8x10" in print, so there in lies the rationale for that...

Anyway, I've got a few questions regarding the camera options and where people might suggest I start looking. I'm not looking to buy straight away, but I need to know what I'm aiming for and follow how the market is looking.

1: Camera options: It seems many people recommend the Chamonix ULF cameras. Is their 11x14" essentially a scaled up version of their 8x10"? Compared to the Shen-Hao, which seems to be a similar price–unless someone can correct me on that–and without wanting to start some kind of brand war, what are the plusses and minuses for each camera?

2: Second hand / used cameras: Where is a good place to start looking? I'm not yet able to see the classified section here (my 30 days aren't up yet,) but are there any other places to keep an eye on or get in contact with? Are there any alternative, maybe vintage brand cameras that are comparible to the Chamonix that I'd do well to keep an eye out for?

3: Things to watch out for: Aside from condition of bellows and general sloppyness of the parts / rigidity of the camera, what do I need to pay attention to when buying? E.g. with older cameras, are they optimised for focus using thick glass or tin plates? Are there standard film holders for this format, e.g. like the international graflock system for 4x5" that is reliable and relatively precise across the board?

4: Any other fine print?

Thanks for your help and time, it's a learning curve and I hope to one day join the club...

Tim

[Michael Kadillak]

Most of the questions you are asking Tim will be self evident as your search evolves. The process begins by having a clear delineation as to what budget you are working with? 11x14 holders are $200 - $400 each and having a common lot aligned with the camera as to the film plane registration is advised. You will need a beefier tripod. $400 +/- will get you a used Majestic. Figure $10-$12/sheet for B&W film. I am a big fan of finding a used camera that requires being patient and not wobbling when you find the right deal. Ensuring the camera is capable of being locked down properly, has light tight bellows and has extension capability to at least 30" is desirable. A tilting front lens panel is nice to have but it can be worked around with taking the back standard back as necessary. Swing on at least the back standard is also nice to have. I looked for several years before I found my Deardorff V11 at the right price and it gives me enormous joy when I get it in the field.

Is it possible for you to hook up with an 11x14 photographer in your area and get a feel for the process in the interim?

[Alan9940]

Hi Tim,

I would suggest doing a Google search for "Tim Layton 11x14" and you'll get several hits referencing articles on his website; he uses a Chamonix 11x14. As I'm sure you've already discovered, buying new can get rather costly. But, used cameras this size don't seem to come up all that often. How do I know that? I've been on the lookout myself for about a year. Occasionally, one will pop up on these boards (usually a Deardorff...think $$$) and I've seen a couple of "beaters" on eBay.

Good luck in your search for this elusive creature. ;)

[Michael Kadillak]

Hi Tim,

I would suggest doing a Google search for "Tim Layton 11x14" and you'll get several hits referencing articles on his website; he uses a Chamonix 11x14. As I'm sure you've already discovered, buying new can get rather costly. But, used cameras this size don't seem to come up all that often. How do I know that? I've been on the lookout myself for about a year. Occasionally, one will pop up on these boards (usually a Deardorff...think $$$) and I've seen a couple of "beaters" on eBay.

Good luck in your search for this elusive creature. ;)

Agree with Alan. If your budget is in the $3-4,000 range for an 11x14 used system with two holders you at least are in the bid/ask realm of reasonableness to acquire a good camera that will still take some time and effort to fill the billing. The lower you set your budget the longer the time line and the less probability of accomplishing the objective. You have to work the system and it just is what it is.

[Oren Grad]

Another new camera in the same ballpark as the Chamonix is Richard Ritter's.

But I agree with Michael and Alan about defining your budget. If you're willing to be patient and watch eBay and discussion boards like this one for a while, you could do it on a relative shoestring with an early-20th-century camera such as an Eastman or a Korona. My first 11x14 was a Korona that had been refinished and reinforced by Alan Brubaker.

Also second Michael's suggestion of finding someone who works with big cameras so that you can see "in the flesh" what's involved. We all have our own thresholds for what we can reasonably manage in the field, but I would say that from my perspective the logistics get far more challenging as you move beyond 8x10. Think about what you want to photograph with the big camera, whether you will need to be able to backpack it away from the road or will be content to work out of a car or in a studio.

[Luis-F-S]

Not to discourage you, but it would make your life a whole lot simpler to use 8x10 and enlarge as needed. Film, holders, lenses and everything else is much cheaper and much easier to find, and unless you're determined to contact print, there's no real advantage that I can think of to the larger format.

[Monty McCutchen]

Great logical advice. I truly mean that. What's logical about ULF though!!! If you have the funds after deciding on your budget, buy the best of the listed above that you can justify and then spend some that you can't justify. Live large, shoot large, find out if its for you, enjoy the run along the way and sell it all for break even or even a loss and know that you laid it all on the line for something that was in you to do! Now this is all coming from a man that ignored the "start with a 4 x 5 its easier to learn on" mantra that is often heard here on the forum and jumped straight into 8 x 10 and soon sold that for 10 x 12, 7 x 17 and 20 x 24 formats, who has never printed a silver print in his life, choosing Pt/Pd and Wet Plate in those formats, and likes the number 13 so that might be considered on your end as your read this.

I say go for it. Big. I did and its brought much life to my doorstep.

best

Monty

[Oren Grad]

Now this is all coming from a man that ignored the "start with a 4 x 5 its easier to learn on" mantra that is often heard here on the forum and jumped straight into 8 x 10...

Same here - started with 8x10 and added both smaller and larger formats as I went along. For me the point of bothering with LF was, and still is, to make contact prints. If that's the goal, ULF is a wonderful playground. OTOH, if one intends to enlarge, the cost/benefit tradeoff goes sour really fast after 8x10.

[William Whitaker]

ULF = "un-logical" foolishness.

But could as easily be "un-logical" fun!

[Tim V]

Thanks everyone for the advise, I've been in contact with Badger Graphic re the price of the Shen-Hao 11x14 and it seems it's much more costly than the Chamonix, so that puts that to rest...

I live in New Zealand, and no one to my knowledge has this gear close to where I live. I've used an 8x10" Deardorff before and it was fine if pretty wobbly. It was heavy and think the 11x14" Chamonix is about the same weight, in fact... Anyway, I know what I'm getting in to and people here have confirmed that I really need to budget for up to $5k USD for a one lens system with a good, matched cut film holder. I've been looking for a while and not seen anything on the used market – at least on eBay, I have no idea where else to look from NZ – so if I wait, something might come along. Eventually...

And yes, I've seen some of the Tim Layton videos on the Chamonix. He seems very impressed with it, and going by the videos I'm impressed at how rigid it seems. There are videos of other brands out there in 8x10" etc where the cameras seem really wobbly, but not the Chamonix.

As for being 'un-logical and foolish', that description certainly matches me. Perfectly good, actually great gear already and I'm looking at big, old fashioned cameras...

[diversey]

Do you like this one?

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?141305-FS-Wisner-11x14-Technical-Field-Camera-3-Fidelity-Holders

[Luis-F-S]

Worn Deardorffs are "wobbly" the ones in good shape are not. My V11 is so tight that the knobs used to hurt my fingers until I found some rubber o-ring covers for them.

[Michael Kadillak]

My 11x14 Dorff is similarly tight. But that is not a bad thing.

Right now there is a Wisner 11x14 field camera on E Bay that is in Chile that is listed as a field camera but appears to be a Tech Field for the fact that it appears that it has a read standard rise that adds some weight but some optionality to its use.

I owned a Wisner 11x14 for some time and found it to be a good camera with some issues that one needs to work around. One issue I had to deal with was sagging bellows which simply needed to be propped up when making a photograph. The second issue from my perspective with the Wisner camera was the less than robust thickness of the front standard (relative to the Deardorff V11) when this front standard component is extended and heavy long lens are put in play. Not a deal killer just some realities that need to be dealt with.

[Jim Graves]

Tim ... where are you located?

It might be easiest to borrow or rent an 11x14 to try out. Until you've dealt with the size, weight, and $$$ of 11x14 it's hard to understand why some posters are so cautionary about going so big to start out.

I went from 4x5 to 8x10 and thought 11x14 would just be a step up. For me, it was like 4 steps up.

That being said ... the ground glass view and the contact prints are pretty amazing.

Let us know where you are and maybe we can get your hands on one for a tryout.

Jim in Sacramento

[Michael Kadillak]

Tim ... where are you located?

It might be easiest to borrow or rent an 11x14 to try out. Until you've dealt with the size, weight, and $$$ of 11x14 it's hard to understand why some posters are so cautionary about going so big to start out.

I went from 4x5 to 8x10 and thought 11x14 would just be a step up. For me, it was like 4 steps up.

That being said ... the ground glass view and the contact prints are pretty amazing.

Let us know where you are and maybe we can get your hands on one for a tryout.

Jim in Sacramento

He is on the other side of the planet Jim in New Zealand.

Given the lack of sufficient infrastructure and executable options, I would opt to tag along with Luis in recommending that in the likely extended period it could be before finding an 11x14 that fits the billing, getting an 8x10 camera and honing in on the analog skills that can be scaled up to 11x14 when this opportunity presents itself is a logical conclusion. Both formats can be contact printed without the need to acquire an enlarger and that way you are learning skills that have forward applicability.

[Tav Walraven]

I'll concur with Michael. My 11x14 Dorff is #245. Never checked when it was made but it was originally in a studio in New York City. Ended up here and I bought it years ago. Mine is tight as it could be after some obvious use in the "City" and I lugged it all over Big Bend and the West for years. I did replace the black bellows with some red bellows from Camera Bellows over in England a while back. It's now doing wet-plate work with a nice heavy 6.3 14x17 Tessar on the front and still stays locked down tight like an inmate at San Quentin. I've thought about getting a Chamonix replacement several times but this Dorff keeps on ticking. Rarely see one up for sale anymore so she's going to just keep plugging along in my studio unless she tells me she's ready for retirement, or I beat her to it.

[Tim V]

Wish I could see it, but I'm too new to the forum to be able to see the Classified section. I think I have to be registered 30 days?

[Tim V]

Hi again all,

Thanks again for the comments.

Regarding my friends 'wobbly' Deardorff, he's one of New Zealand's top photographers and has used his trusty 8x10 in more places with more success than I could ever imagine, so something about it must be right! Odds are though it's the person working the thing that matters most, and that I guess is the most important point to remember...

Anyway, I tend to agree that it might be morse sensible starting with 8x10", but considering I've been using view cameras for years for almost everything I do, plus have worked in the darkroom extensively already, I'm a little impatient to go big or go home, as they say. I've been looking at the prices of the Chamonix and Shen-hao 8x10" cameras and as opposed to the 11x14" options which are worlds apart in price–the Chamonix being nearly half the price for reasons I have no idea about, anyone care to elaborate?–the two brands are pretty much neck and neck price wise. I see there is a model of the Shen-hao that is remarkably similar to the Chamonix (and the Phillips?) but can anyone comment on which is better built? I'm guessing though it's like comparing Arca to Linhof, or Arca to Alpa, they're probably pretty much on par with some things people like better on personal grounds? The videos I've seen of the Chamonix look very impressive, the camera looks very rigid and easy to manipulate and set up. I can't find anything about the Shen-hao, just a few of the Canham, which seems a bit rickety? And I suppose there's always the Intrepid, but to be honest it doesn't look all that inspiring feature and build wise. Maybe I'm just a snob?

I love New Zealand, but it is pretty much a dead zone if you want to buy this kind of equipment without ordering blind off the internet. Same with colour processing, E6 and C41, there is only one place nation wide that does dip and dunk and only once a week at approximately $28USD per sheet of 8x10". I'd just as soon buy a Jobo and do it myself in batches.

[Michael Kadillak]

Hi again all,

Thanks again for the comments.

Regarding my friends 'wobbly' Deardorff, he's one of New Zealand's top photographers and has used his trusty 8x10 in more places with more success than I could ever imagine, so something about it must be right! Odds are though it's the person working the thing that matters most, and that I guess is the most important point to remember...

Anyway, I tend to agree that it might be morse sensible starting with 8x10", but considering I've been using view cameras for years for almost everything I do, plus have worked in the darkroom extensively already, I'm a little impatient to go big or go home, as they say. I've been looking at the prices of the Chamonix and Shen-hao 8x10" cameras and as opposed to the 11x14" options which are worlds apart in price–the Chamonix being nearly half the price for reasons I have no idea about, anyone care to elaborate?–the two brands are pretty much neck and neck price wise. I see there is a model of the Shen-hao that is remarkably similar to the Chamonix (and the Phillips?) but can anyone comment on which is better built? I'm guessing though it's like comparing Arca to Linhof, or Arca to Alpa, they're probably pretty much on par with some things people like better on personal grounds? The videos I've seen of the Chamonix look very impressive, the camera looks very rigid and easy to manipulate and set up. I can't find anything about the Shen-hao, just a few of the Canham, which seems a bit rickety? And I suppose there's always the Intrepid, but to be honest it doesn't look all that inspiring feature and build wise. Maybe I'm just a snob?

I love New Zealand, but it is pretty much a dead zone if you want to buy this kind of equipment without ordering blind off the internet. Same with colour processing, E6 and C41, there is only one place nation wide that does dip and dunk and only once a week at approximately $28USD per sheet of 8x10". I'd just as soon buy a Jobo and do it myself in batches.

If there is one thing that rings true to your condition is you have to deal with the reality of being separated from the rest of the world. Color photography in ULF is something I have no clue of but the logistics are challenging to say the least and costly is par for the course. Not even sure if they make the color chemistry for the Jobo. The Wisner I was referring to was on E B***.

Eventually you will find someone that is moving on from a format in downsize mode. I have a 12x20 F&S that is like new that I am not using that I need to sell in downsize mode since I do not use it so I know it is possible if you are patient. Reaching out to folks that use particular cameras and having that data set filled in will be of value since you do not know what may pop up. I have a Canham 8x20 and find it to be rigid in that format. I have seen their 11x14 and 12x20 cameras that exhibit a bit of elasticity due to their sheer size, but they make great photographs. Weight reduction comes at a price. I know a few folks that have the Chamonix 11x14 and 14x17 and I can put you in touch with them.

[Oren Grad]

One important variable to think about is camera weight. At one extreme, the Phillips Explorer (horizontal only) weighs less than 13 pounds; Richard Ritter's camera is in the same ballpark. Some of the antique cameras are less than 15 pounds. The Canham and Dick Phillips' reversing-back 11x14 are a few pounds heavier. Hugo's website specifies the Chamonix at "approx. 20 lb / 9100 g". At the other extreme are 11x14's that weigh 30 pounds or more, like the Wisner Technical, the Tachihara or the E version of the Ebony SV.

So it's important to think about how you intend to use the camera and how that relates to your tolerance for lugging and manipulating very heavy kit. I can backpack an 11x14 Phillips Explorer or Ritter or some of the antique cameras, with a couple of holders, a small lens like a 305 G-Claron, and a suitable tripod - not for many miles, but far enough to get decent distances away from the car and into places where a cart can't go or isn't allowed. I can't do that with a 20 lb camera and the beefier tripod it requires. And a 30-pound camera is basically a non-starter for me unless it's going to sit permanently on a studio stand and not ever have to be unmounted and mounted, let alone go anywhere. Even if I just want to set up in a friend's back yard, for me there's a world of difference in handling between an ultralight 11x14 on a Gitzo 5-series and a 20 pound camera on a Ries A-100/A-250. YMMV, of course; you may well be stronger than I am and so less constrained in what you can comfortably handle.

And OTOH, if you do intend to leave the camera set up in a studio and not be constantly moving it around, all of that may not matter to you at all.

[Oren Grad]

Weight reduction comes at a price.

In general that's true, but design matters a lot. Used with wide-ish lenses (and thus short extensions) and with everything properly tightened down, the Phillips Explorer is a rock. Even with a monster lens like the 480 Sironar-N and the base extended to accommodate, it's still respectably rigid - more so than the Canham 5x12 I owned for a while was at any extension.

Hugo's website shows only a reversing-back model in 11x14. I don't know if Chamonix is set up to do custom designs for a single buyer, but they should certainly have the capability to build something close to the Explorer if not quite match it in weight.

[Hugo Zhang]

In general that's true, but design matters a lot. Used with wide-ish lenses (and thus short extensions) and with everything properly tightened down, the Phillips Explorer is a rock. Even with a monster lens like the 480 Sironar-N and the base extended to accommodate, it's still respectably rigid - more so than the Canham 5x12 I owned for a while was at any extension.

Hugo's website shows only a reversing-back model in 11x14. I don't know if Chamonix is set up to do custom designs for a single buyer, but they should certainly have the capability to build something close to the Explorer if not quite match it in weight.

Oren,

We are currently making a few ultra-light weight horizontal only 11x14 cameras much in the tradition of Philips Explorer. It will have a weight of 6kg and it is designed with landscape photographers in mind. I use my Chamonix 1114 camera with reversible back this morning in Mono lake area and made four exposures. All of them were horizontal format. It would be nice if I used a lighter camera because it was quite a walk from the parking lot to the shore of the lake.

HUgo

[Oren Grad]

We are currently making a few ultra-light weight horizontal only 11x14 cameras much in the tradition of Philips Explorer. It will have a weight of 6kg and it is designed with landscape photographers in mind.

Most excellent!

[Vaughn]

...I use my Chamonix 1114 camera with reversible back this morning in Mono lake area and made four exposures. All of them were horizontal format. It would be nice if I used a lighter camera because it was quite a walk from the parking lot to the shore of the lake. HUgo

I used my Chamonix 1114 last weekend at Mono Lake -- Navy Beach and the sand tufa. Used both orientations...perhaps 70% horizontals, but usually it is closer to 50/50, with a higher percentage of verticals when photographing in the forest. When I modify a dark slide to get two 5x14 negs on an 11x14 sheet, the percentage might favor horizontals.

A 4x10 platinum/palladium print:

[angusparker]

My advice based on owning an old 11x14 1895 ROC King, a new 14x17 Chamonix and a new 8x10 Ritter (and a Shen Hao) along the way is this:

Buy an old 11x14 with film holders and get new bellows made - probably cheapest option and low weight if you get the right brand. No 11x14 holders are standard so beware..

If you must go new look at the Chamonix horizontal only. They are better build quality than Shen Hao and the company is responsive and relatively fast to produce the product. The holders are specific to the camera and light. Holders end up weighing much more than the camera once you have 4-5! Be careful how you open and close the camera you can sheer off some small pins as I learned with my 14x17.

Consider the Ritter, it is super low weight but not as rigid. The 8x10 is so easy to carry around. A joy. But wait times for production are long unless you can get a second hand one. Build quality is good but not beautiful like a Chamonix.

Happy to answer any more specific questions.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

[Tin Can]

IF and only if you shoot only in the studio, there are huge Deardorff 11x14 Studio cameras. Look here. http://deardorffcameras.0catch.com/s11/s11.html

I bought one fairly reasonably but installed new bellows, 3 sets. A Richard Ritter Bail Back and 5 of his wonderful film holders, so not free in the end. One piece at a time.

The S11 comes from 1929-1965 Chicago where it was designed for high definition catalog shots, shot in huge studios that had as many as 100 0f them setup. The Montgomery Ward space still exists. Cool building. Perhaps 500 S11 made.

As the link states some had 20 ft tall stands, mine came with 13-ft which I sadly cut to 7-ft, yet it still rises to meet an 11-foot ceiling. Fun to use.

The advantage is, it can easily carry the heaviest old lens, use an internal shutter, expand the triple bellows to 75" and shoot my 900 mm lens at 1-1.

Much later I found my Richard Ritter film holders fit perfectly in a Chamonix 11x14. A cost saving. Finally...

[Tim V]

I'll be needing a field camera, so the larger Deardorffs are out of the question unfortunately.

The new Chamonix lightweight version sounds good (although I would most probably miss being able to rotate the back,) as does the standard version, which is already light by comparision with many other brands. I'd love to see some photos of the two models side by side for comparison.

Another forum member has also been in touch regarding his Wisner, and that is incredibly tempting too – I'd most probably pull the trigger if I had that much money already accumulated, but sadly not yet. I'm really gutted I can't jump just yet.

I've also been thinking about the logistics of it all and if 8x10" is a more practical option. I was reading about Nicholas Nixon's work the other day, and he talking about his love / hate with the ungainly format for what he does, but that he's shot predominantly with 11x14" for a good few years now (at least at the time of his last retrospective book.) Stunning work. Truly great, I think. Very intimate, even when he's photographing the built environment and vast spaces. I really just want to contact print, hence the 11x14" seems right to me, but you never know. Sometimes I might want to scan and print large.

[DrTang]

I recently ended up with a Vageeswari 11x14 field

I'm still getting it together as it came w/o back and bad bellows..and missing some knobs, but otherwise in pretty decent condition

it seems like it won't be as 'lock down steady' as ..say the deardorff..but it's reasonably light (for an 11x14)

[Tim V]

Thanks DrTang,

I've thought about charging ahead as you have too with an older camera; doing it up and making do, but the thought of the extra work that goes into this scares me a little. I'm not talking necessarily about replacing the bellows etc, but more the non-standard cut film holders and crafting / sourcing new knobs, etc. I'm not an overly 'handy' person, my achilles heal! Especially in this game of technical cameras!

The more I think about it, my perfect setup would be the Chamonix standard version 11x14", but with shorter bellows to make it easier to use short lenses (90mm equivalent in 4x5") and slightly less bulk / weight (although that would be marginal, I bet.) Are Chamonix open to such requests, and if so do they charge resonably for the privilege?

The Wisner offered here for sale by Henry looks too like a great option, all be it heavier than the Chamonix, but the price is right and it looks beautifully maintened and featured! I'd just as soon jump on that, but I'm as yet still saving the money.

[jnantz]

if you can live with the orthochromatic looking negative that paper or xray film offers
it makes using a 11x14 camera affordable ! keep your eyes open for a century empire state
sometimes they sell for a song and dance and they do the job. also look at dr's offices and xray clinics
sometimes they sell film holders for less than what a fidelity might cost. if you don't mind old glass
and the round sometimes less contrast it offers look for wollensak 1a triple convertibles they cover the format with ease
not sure about the turner reich from the same generation but you might search the archives to see, or to the way back machine
( archive.org ) and search the gundalach catalogs at camera eccentric.com.
good luck with the format, its a lot of fun and i agree about skipping the smaller formats

john

[William Whitaker]

...1: Camera options: It seems many people recommend the Chamonix ULF cameras. Is their 11x14" essentially a scaled up version of their 8x10"? Compared to the Shen-Hao, which seems to be a similar price–unless someone can correct me on that–and without wanting to start some kind of brand war, what are the plusses and minuses for each camera?Tim


When it comes to ULF, scaling is not linear. 11x14 isn't twice the trouble of 8x10, it's like 3 times (at least!) In fact, the difficulty of ULF seems to increase almost as the cube of the negative size. (About as imprecise a statement as I can come up with!...) Besides everything being bigger and weighing more, there is expense. And some things are not as obvious as others. Film holders are outlandishly expensive. Film is expensive. More chemistry is required to process and print. Negative storage is a bloody hassle. Everything is heavier. About the only constant between 8x10 and larger formats is your light meter! I can assure you that transportation is more difficult. You start pricing pick-up trucks or Sprinter vans.

Is it worth it? Yes it is. (In my very personal opinion.) Working with a big camera is just plain fun. And that big ground glass is the ultimate seduction. And it's the gateway to the rabbit hole (or road to perdition, if you prefer.)

Not meant at all to scare you off. Only to add a dose of reality to the whirlwind of lust that surrounds ULF. (I know it well, having become a victim several years ago.) Just be prepared for complications and disappointments as you travel that road. Also be prepared to have a lot of fun. Because it IS fun.

And afterwards you'll be amazed at how easy 8x10 is by comparison. Trouble loading film in an 8x10 holder. Learn to load 11x14 or bigger and your skills will improve vastly!



2: Second hand / used cameras: Where is a good place to start looking? I'm not yet able to see the classified section here (my 30 days aren't up yet,) but are there any other places to keep an eye on or get in contact with? Are there any alternative, maybe vintage brand cameras that are comparible to the Chamonix that I'd do well to keep an eye out for?Tim


I once had an Empire State 11x14 which was a sweet camera (imho). Sold it because I was more interested in other formats. It was relatively light compared to the 11x14 I'd had earlier which was a Wisner. That's not to disparage the Wisner camera in any way (except the size of the lensboards, but that's another thread) . I would watch the FS forum here (when you're able). Also Ebay. A lot of my stuff has come from Ebay. Caveat emptor in both cases. Get your money ready, then be patient.



3: Things to watch out for: Aside from condition of bellows and general sloppyness of the parts / rigidity of the camera, what do I need to pay attention to when buying? E.g. with older cameras, are they optimised for focus using thick glass or tin plates? Are there standard film holders for this format, e.g. like the international graflock system for 4x5" that is reliable and relatively precise across the board?Tim


You might possibly run into non-standard film holders, e.g., Sterling on some very early cameras. I can't comment, but others on this forum have that knowledge. But 11x14 is covered by the ANSI standard, so you should be OK.

[Tim V]

Thanks, Will. A good read and certainly puts the 'no pain, no gain' mantra into perspective with regards to my desire for big negatives...

Although I've shot a little bit of 8x10", my main format has been 4x5" for many years, followed by roll film and 60mpx digital capture on a Linhof Techno; a camera system I love. My desire to go big or go home, as they say, is to try and recapture some of that tactile magic of film; engage more with the alchemy of the processes again, especially in the darkroom making fine prints. The 11x14" format seems to really fit with this idea, so I am following my nose here... Contact printing is where it'll sit...

I will say though that I have been looking hard at 8x10" also, as I have a friends with a great studio equipped with huge, Durst mural enlargers etc. Plus scanning is easier if I ever choose to go that way. I'm convinced though that this would eventuate in an upgrade to 11x14" at some stage anyway, so I've just got to really try and think it through. It's hard being in New Zealand and not being able to handle gear, but thanks to people here I have a better idea about what's available, new and old. If buying new, I'd certainly go with Chamonix I think. Used is perhaps a different story, as a good price for a capable outfit might outweigh feature set or weight.

Anyway, onwards and upwards...

[angusparker]

Anything old in 11x14 will not work with ANSI standard film holders - sometimes its just a matter of removing the placement rib on the film holder - so not such a big deal. Newer cameras are more likely to adhere to the ANSI standard. I think Chamonix cameras and holders are ANSI standard but I’m not 100% sure.

Moral of my story, try and buy the camera and holders in a set from the same person.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

[tgtaylor]

I've been toying with getting a 11x14 camera for several years now. I'm pretty sure that it will fit in my big Lowepro pack - the Pro Trekker 600AW - and I have 2 lens that will cover the format - a 360 Symmar-S and 610 Apo-Nikkor; the 14” Wollensack Veritar SF might. My Series 3 Gitzo with ball head wouldn't work for that format but the Series 5 and/or the 475B would but that doubles the tripod weight on the pack and increases the size probably making it awkward to carry. The 12x15 split-back printing frame works for making contact prints and the Jobo drums will handle the film.

So to get into 11x14 I would need:

1. A 11x14 Harrison changing tent.
2. A dark cloth.
3. The camera, of course, and 2 good film holders (+ film).
4. Hard case for camera storage when not in use.

I figure it would cost me somewhere between 5 and 6K.

Thomas

[karl french]

11x14 cameras are typically 17-18" square, so unlikely to fit in a 600AW. 10x12 yes (it's what I use for my 10x12 Chamonix), 11x14 not likely.

[tgtaylor]

Maybe not Karl, but from the packs dimensions on Amazon, 23.6 x 15 x 18.1 inches, and the Chamonix dimensions from their website, Folded size: 463mm x 442mm x 146mm (i.e., 18.23" and 17.4", it should on the 18" side with a little squeeze (girth?).

The Amazoon dimensions are external. Here is the internal dimensions from Lowepro website: Internal Dimensions: 35.5 x 21.5 x 49.7 cm (13.98 x 8.46 x 19.57 in). So the squeeze would be on the 14" side.

Actually the above was for the newer 650AM. Here's the dimensions for the 600AW from the Ritz website: Size (Interior):
14.6W X 7.5D X 21.3H in.
37 X 19 X 54 cm

Thomas

[karl french]

Just measured my 600AW. It looks like 15x19" is about what you can squeeze into the main interior compartment. The width of an 11x14 is gonna get you with the 600AW.

[tgtaylor]

But for me, getting an 11x14 camera and spending all that money would be kinda foolish as I already have that much already invested in a good 8x10 field camera. Keeping both formats would be nonsensical and I would constantly be confronted with the uncertainty over which format to bring. True, the 11x14 almost doubles the area of the film but I've been printing 8x10 alternative and including the brush overcoats on the matted print which make it appear to be larger than 8x10. I couldn't do that with 11x14 without going to a 16x20 printing frame and the 16x20 frame poses issues in itself. But assuming I could get the 11x14 in the Lowepro I could still use the series 3 Gitzo - I thought the 11x14 weighed 30 lbs and not the 20 lbs that it does which is only 5 lbs heavier than the Toyo. So the possibility is still there. Maybe if I hit the lottery or something...today is Wednesday so I'll stop for a ticket.

Thomas

[bob carnie]

Have any of you 11 x14 camera owners had enlarged prints made and compared the results to 8 x10 negatives of the same subject? ... I would love to hear of your results or observations.

[MartinP]

An 11x14" enlarger would be an interesting object in itself !! The lab I worked at had a 10x10" Durst (we used it for aerial roll-film) in it's own special room. Neither the machine nor the room were small...

ETA. Or was it 10x12"?? This was about three decades ago.

[bob carnie]

An 11x14" enlarger would be an interesting object in itself !! The lab I worked at had a 10x10" Durst (we used it for aerial roll-film) in it's own special room. Neither the machine nor the room were small...

ETA. Or was it 10x12"?? This was about three decades ago.

Oh I got one a Devere 515 in mint condition, I have just never printed an 11 x14 neg off it .

[Luis-F-S]

I just don't see the advantage of enlarging 11x14 over 8x10 and since Bob is about one of maybe 3 people with an 11x14 enlarger, it's sort of a mute point. Plus as he noted above, he's never printed an 11x14 neg! 8x10 enlargers are "reasonably" plentiful and you can work in 8x10 without resorting to heroics. L

[John Layton]

With my 5X7/8X10 horizontal enlarger project nearing completion...I've actually thought about going up a size (to accommodate 11X14 negatives) - but when I start considering all that is required to truly make this worthwhile (results-wise)...I think again! In the meantime, I'm having fun burning through my recently re-discovered stock of 11X14 Tri-X...exp. date Jun/1988! (gotta love that base-fog!)

[Luis-F-S]

I've got lots of 4x5 Tri-X of the same vintage. How are you handling the 0.36 fog?

[bob carnie]

I just don't see the advantage of enlarging 11x14 over 8x10 and since Bob is about one of maybe 3 people with an 11x14 enlarger, it's sort of a mute point. Plus as he noted above, he's never printed an 11x14 neg! 8x10 enlargers are "reasonably" plentiful and you can work in 8x10 without resorting to heroics. L


I know one day I will borrow or rent a 11 x14 camera and make a series of images.. my thought is to maximize the negative with detailed information and use PMK development . I think a series of 28 x 22 inch silver prints would be impressive at a 2 x magnification.

the hard part for me is to think about a series that I can buy into and is relevent... on a side note I would process one set of negs to do contact Palladium gum prints as well.

Now I just have to think of a subject.

[paulbarden]

I'm seriously considering venturing into 11X14 wet plate work. I seem to be competent with 8X10 so the idea of 11X14 plates is very enticing. The idea of freeing myself from dependence on film manufacturers is also very appealing.

A collodion-on-glass test from earlier this week (https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4486/38199283862_7104c20c1a_h.jpg).

[bob carnie]

I'm seriously considering venturing into 11X14 wet plate work. I seem to be competent with 8X10 so the idea of 11X14 plates is very enticing. The idea of freeing myself from dependence on film manufacturers is also very appealing.

A collodion-on-glass test from earlier this week (https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4486/38199283862_7104c20c1a_h.jpg).

I think you could do really well with glass plate negatives Paul, Denise Ross is on the west coast who is a complete expert on emulsions, you should talk with her.

[Paul Kinzer]

I'm seriously considering venturing into 11X14 wet plate work. I seem to be competent with 8X10 so the idea of 11X14 plates is very enticing. The idea of freeing myself from dependence on film manufacturers is also very appealing.

A collodion-on-glass test from earlier this week (https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4486/38199283862_7104c20c1a_h.jpg).

That's lovely!

[Robert Brazile]

I think you could do really well with glass plate negatives Paul, Denise Ross is on the west coast who is a complete expert on emulsions, you should talk with her.

I second Bob's suggestion; I've been working with gelatin dry plates for a couple years now, and recently took a run at 11x14. As mentioned, it's quite freeing to be able to make any size and configuration plate you want, provided you have a way of procuring holders. I've managed to find 4x5, 5x7, 8x10, 10x12, 11x14 and whole plate (in varying condition; some repair required), but I've been thinking about making my own for odd sizes and shapes; at that point I'm just limited by my ability to cut glass...

Robert

[Ari]

I'm seriously considering venturing into 11X14 wet plate work. I seem to be competent with 8X10 so the idea of 11X14 plates is very enticing. The idea of freeing myself from dependence on film manufacturers is also very appealing.

A collodion-on-glass test from earlier this week (https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4486/38199283862_7104c20c1a_h.jpg).

Paul, one of the cleanest plates I've yet seen; well done!

[bob carnie]

I second Bob's suggestion; I've been working with gelatin dry plates for a couple years now, and recently took a run at 11x14. As mentioned, it's quite freeing to be able to make any size and configuration plate you want, provided you have a way of procuring holders. I've managed to find 4x5, 5x7, 8x10, 10x12, 11x14 and whole plate (in varying condition; some repair required), but I've been thinking about making my own for odd sizes and shapes; at that point I'm just limited by my ability to cut glass...

Robert

One day I plan to meet with Denise, and see her work and ideas, I have met with Ron Morey who showed me his silver gelatin coatings , It was quite reassuring to me to know that if the manufactures go bat shit crazy and either price their coatings out of range, or even drop them altogether there are people like Denise and Ron who are indeed passing down the knowledge on how to make incredible emulsions for paper and glass.

I would be interested in making glass plate negatives , as then I can enlarge, scan, or contact to my hearts content.. I need to get out of Toronto's small business rat race, by winning the lottery and dedicate serious time to this method of making negatives.


Robert -Cutting Glass is the least of your worries I would think, any frame shop in the world cuts glass with precision every day..

[Robert Brazile]

One day I plan to meet with Denise, and see her work and ideas, I have met with Ron Morey who showed me his silver gelatin coatings , It was quite reassuring to me to know that if the manufactures go bat shit crazy and either price their coatings out of range, or even drop them altogether there are people like Denise and Ron who are indeed passing down the knowledge on how to make incredible emulsions for paper and glass.

Yes, I took the two courses at Eastman from Mark Osterman and Nick Brandreth, and met and chatted with Ron Mowrey there. Learned a great deal from all of them. Also got the opportunity to look at examples from the archives there and have also enjoyed buying antique dry plates for comparison with my own. Still learning, a long way to go, but lots of fun.



I would be interested in making glass plate negatives , as then I can enlarge, scan, or contact to my hearts content.. I need to get out of Toronto's small business rat race, by winning the lottery and dedicate serious time to this method of making negatives.


It's really not difficult to do the basics, all I can say is: jump in! I put it off longer than I should have, worrying about all the things that could go wrong. When I finally tried it, a few things did go wrong and it still came out usable. So my advice is to either take a course, or buy Denise's book (or both!) and jump right in.



Robert -Cutting Glass is the least of your worries I would think, any frame shop in the world cuts glass with precision every day..

Ha ha -- thanks, but I realized after writing that that it would be ambiguous. I have no trouble cutting glass at all: in straight lines. That parenthetical comment was in reference to my potential desire to shoot on "odd shapes".

Robert

[goamules]

I'm seriously considering venturing into 11X14 wet plate work. I seem to be competent with 8X10 so the idea of 11X14 plates is very enticing. The idea of freeing myself from dependence on film manufacturers is also very appealing.

A collodion-on-glass test from earlier this week (https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4486/38199283862_7104c20c1a_h.jpg).

I've never seen dynamic range like that with wetplate, great job. What collodion formula did you use? Is this a print from a glass negative?

[unityofsaints]

Oren,

We are currently making a few ultra-light weight horizontal only 11x14 cameras much in the tradition of Philips Explorer. It will have a weight of 6kg and it is designed with landscape photographers in mind. I use my Chamonix 1114 camera with reversible back this morning in Mono lake area and made four exposures. All of them were horizontal format. It would be nice if I used a lighter camera because it was quite a walk from the parking lot to the shore of the lake.

Hugo

Will these ever be manufactured again?

[bob carnie]

I posted a couple of years ago on this thread, I still have not made a full image print on my 11 x 14 enlarger.. since that last post I have moved to my second last work space , this one I believe I will operate for 10 -15 years then I plan to move to a small Ontario village and make my last stand (darkroom) . These images were taken over the weekend I am finding a huge resurgence in silver gelatin from enlarged negative and IMHO will be the reason silver paper will be made commercially in 6 years. By mixing digital skills and outputting to silver or inkjet negatives one can really manage the paper costs effectively. 208926208927208928


But now that I am doing this I still have not answered the question for myself which is IS A 24 X 30 IMAGE BETTER, SHARPER, TONAL SCALE SUPERIOR FROM AN ENLARGER OR FROM A DIGITAL CAPTURE.. today I have clients capturing on 150 mb Phase One systems and 50 mb Hasselblad systems... but I do not have a 11 x 14 camera and humbly I feel I am not capable of providing the best exposure and scene to compare against.. so I am on the lookout.. good lens , good body all that I can handle and a subject that I am interested in , It would have to be part of my ongoing Consumption Series me thinks, but not necessarily. FP4 film exposed properly , processed Jobo PMK and then put in my enlarger to make 2 x magnification prints, and then have one of my friends beside me capturing the same scene with the same lighting setup and make the same size print...... personally I do not know which one will be better but one day I will do this test and forever put this nagging question behind me.

[Tin Can]

Bob, I admire your honesty and goals

A small town is desirable going forward

I have no regrets leaving a big city


I posted a couple of years ago on this thread, I still have not made a full image print on my 11 x 14 enlarger.. since that last post I have moved to my second last work space , this one I believe I will operate for 10 -15 years then I plan to move to a small Ontario village and make my last stand (darkroom) . These images were taken over the weekend I am finding a huge resurgence in silver gelatin from enlarged negative and IMHO will be the reason silver paper will be made commercially in 6 years. By mixing digital skills and outputting to silver or inkjet negatives one can really manage the paper costs effectively. 208926208927208928


But now that I am doing this I still have not answered the question for myself which is IS A 24 X 30 IMAGE BETTER, SHARPER, TONAL SCALE SUPERIOR FROM AN ENLARGER OR FROM A DIGITAL CAPTURE.. today I have clients capturing on 150 mb Phase One systems and 50 mb Hasselblad systems... but I do not have a 11 x 14 camera and humbly I feel I am not capable of providing the best exposure and scene to compare against.. so I am on the lookout.. good lens , good body all that I can handle and a subject that I am interested in , It would have to be part of my ongoing Consumption Series me thinks, but not necessarily. FP4 film exposed properly , processed Jobo PMK and then put in my enlarger to make 2 x magnification prints, and then have one of my friends beside me capturing the same scene with the same lighting setup and make the same size print...... personally I do not know which one will be better but one day I will do this test and forever put this nagging question behind me.

[bob carnie]

Thanks Randy... I have always pinned for a small town, I grew up in Woodstock Ontario and then moved to Toronto for the greater part of my adult life... Toronto is great make no bones about it, the city is full of people that have come from small communities all over the world. but there is something about a small town, rural setting that has always been my dream.. being a commercial printer for others is a Urban Job, at least for the first 30 years., now I could move out of town and still clients would follow me.

[Drew Wiley]

I sold my house outside of a very very small town, a long ways away from any actual city - much nicer than my house here. It had a fantastic view, a view which is now largely carbonized by the most dramatic fire in State history. The property itself is just below the destruction zone. It's own immediately surrounding brush and forest already burned in catastrophic fires decades ago, and it's been largely cattle grazing land ever since. Those kinds of rural mountain properties are a LOT of work, especially with respect to mandatory fire prevention tasks; so I decided to sell that property slightly prior to my retirement years. My wife is quite a bit younger, and is still mid-career; so we're staying here on the coast and not planning to move anywhere else yet.
As far as capture modes, Bob, wouldn't that be awfully contingent on the very different manners of depth of field management in composition, and even portability logistics, between a ULF camera and something smaller subsequently enlarged? Materials cost like film itself would also be a factor; time involved, etc. Very different paths. If I were younger, and hadn't have had so very many overriding responsibilities when in fact young enough, making and using a really big camera would have appealed to me. But 8x10 proved to be the more realistic sweet spot. Now I'm acclimating to MF gear just in case the time ever arrives I can't handle the big stuff. I use it all parallel in the meantime, based on what's best suited for each particular project or weather circumstance.
Hopefully your lab business will smoothly transition over to the next generation, and you can oversee it a bit more remotely, leaving more time for your own long awaited personal work. There is a sliding scale of how much energy one has left too, in that particular hourglass. As a co-worker once told me slightly before he passed, "You not only grow older, but grow older faster." So use the opportunities while you still have the time and necessary energy.

[John Layton]

...amen to that!

[Vaughn]

I live in a small town (1350) sufficiently away from a larger small town (14,000) that has a university, hospital, groceries, hardware stores, and all that stuff five to 11 miles away, depending on my needs and mode of transportation (lately an electric cargo bike w/ pedal assist). Good place to be retired...not necessarily to be a commercial printer.

Still trying to figure a way to get the 11x14 on the bicycle with damaging it...the bike and the camera cost the same, funny enough...different types of transport! The 5x7, no problem.

Back to my fence work...good fences make good neighbors, interesting fences get you wondered about...
My front gate and part of front fence...I have added bocce balls to selected post tops recently.

[Drew Wiley]

Those are ENORMOUS towns compared to where I came from, Vaughn. Most of it instantly blew up when a logging truck swerved and hit the gas pump. Fences there were barbed wire, period. But here on the coast, I use all heart redwood, and build things solid, having had the advantage of dealer pricing. Good fences keep out of view obnoxious neighbors, but not their weekend loud music. I like your Nordic motif. Did sasquatch arrive here on Viking ships?

[Vaughn]

I didn't say it was a hick town...:cool:

One of the reasons I quit the Forest Service was so not to have to raise kids in Covelo...

[bob carnie]

I sold my house outside of a very very small town, a long ways away from any actual city - much nicer than my house here. It had a fantastic view, a view which is now largely carbonized by the most dramatic fire in State history. The property itself is just below the destruction zone. It's own immediately surrounding brush and forest already burned in catastrophic fires decades ago, and it's been largely cattle grazing land ever since. Those kinds of rural mountain properties are a LOT of work, especially with respect to mandatory fire prevention tasks; so I decided to sell that property slightly prior to my retirement years. My wife is quite a bit younger, and is still mid-career; so we're staying here on the coast and not planning to move anywhere else yet.
As far as capture modes, Bob, wouldn't that be awfully contingent on the very different manners of depth of field management in composition, and even portability logistics, between a ULF camera and something smaller subsequently enlarged? Materials cost like film itself would also be a factor; time involved, etc. Very different paths. If I were younger, and hadn't have had so very many overriding responsibilities when in fact young enough, making and using a really big camera would have appealed to me. But 8x10 proved to be the more realistic sweet spot. Now I'm acclimating to MF gear just in case the time ever arrives I can't handle the big stuff. I use it all parallel in the meantime, based on what's best suited for each particular project or weather circumstance.
Hopefully your lab business will smoothly transition over to the next generation, and you can oversee it a bit more remotely, leaving more time for your own long awaited personal work. There is a sliding scale of how much energy one has left too, in that particular hourglass. As a co-worker once told me slightly before he passed, "You not only grow older, but grow older faster." So use the opportunities while you still have the time and necessary energy.

Hi Drew

Actually now my personal work is generating about 20% of my income and I am actively mixing it with work for others.. There may be a day when I fully retire.. but I do not see this happening just I will take less work for others ..

[Drew Wiley]

That's wonderful, Bob. Good balance.

[bob carnie]

That's wonderful, Bob. Good balance.

Its taken quite a while Drew , but having the shows has helped me get a following in the local Toronto area where I sell most of my work.. I am trying to do about two large shows a year locally where I can introduce all the subsections of my Consumption Series .. about 20 subsections so this could go on for the next 10 years.

[Drew Wiley]

I only had a little over a decade when I could muster up the spare energy and time to do exhibitions. Have kept up shooting and printing just as much ever afterwards, but many family, property, and job responsibilities have rightfully taken precedent to routinely pursuing print sales. I've hung some large venues subsequently, and am equipped to do so again if the opportunity arises, but I am also somewhat indulging actually being retired, and finally taking things in less hectic stride. Many ongoing projects nonetheless, including quite a number of portfolios.

[Greg]

While back started a thread
https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?127968-11x14-experiences-please-share-yours&highlight=11x14+experiences
8 pages of good info to read

Still shooting 11x14. Now 99% of the time only use these 3 lenses:
200mm f/6.5 TAYLOR-HOBSON Cooke Series VIIB WIDE ANGLE ANASTIGMAT: really wide with a little room for movements. Bought it in a barrel mount for a very reasonable price and had S K Grimes mount it in a Copal shutter. A very compact lens.
360mm f/6.5 NIKKOR-W: Not small but throws a huge bright image with room for a good amount of movements. Asking prices are usually very reasonable considering the amount of glass.
600mm f/11.5 S KangRinpoche: Wanted a Fuji 600mm lens but asking prices for them was way up there. Lens is a copy of the 600mm Fuji and acquired it for half the price of a FUJI. Bought it from a Photo dealer in Korea. Was advertised as excellent +, but when I got the lens it was in new condition in its original box. So far I have been 100% satisfied with it.

Shooting HP5+ till I run out, then definitely switching to FP4+ which I use for whole plate and 8x10. Have always used Rodinal with great results. I am slowly starting to use PYROCAT-HD IN GLYCOL but will probably stick with Rodinal in the end since I have been using it since the 1970s.

Semi-seriously considering acquiring an Epson 12000XL scanner to scan my negatives and making digital negatives to contact print on Platinum/Palladium paper. But the cost of acquiring a 12000XL is too much for my pockets.

For me 11x14 is the largest format that I can easily handle. Once used a 14x17 and found the camera a bear to use alone and actually prefer 11x14 prints over 14x17.

Good luck with acquiring and using an 11x14....

[Hugo Zhang]

Greg,

Isn't 11x14 negative big enough for pt/pd printing? Why do you consider making digital negatives out of 11x14 negatives?

Just curious....

Thanks.
Hugo

[Greg]

Greg,

Isn't 11x14 negative big enough for pt/pd printing? Why do you consider making digital negatives out of 11x14 negatives?

Just curious....

Thanks.
Hugo

Hugo, for 2 reasons..

1. Costs. Have been able to get final prints on the first try many times. I use Dan Burkholder's system from his book The New Inkjet Negative Companion. Always printing a Step Tablet aside the image. Graduated from the Rochester Institute of Technology in the 1970s. Favorite class was Materials & Processes with Hollis Todd. We became good friends and I acquired his mindset on tonal reproduction. Hand plotting film curves I've always had a soft spot for doing. When printing Platinum/Palladium, I usually print 3 or 4 prints from different images at the same time. Using standardized digital negatives, they all have the same contrast range and same exposure, not so for me when I was printing directly from different film negatives.

2. Burning and dodging possible with digital negatives. Have always done a lot of abstract imagery which most of the time requires tonal manipulations.

Good to hear from you

Greg

[Fred L]

Vaughn, did you get a long john style cargo bike ? I'm looking at these (E-assist) when I retire. This is one I'm jonesing for...https://curbsidecycle.com/collections/all/products/urban-arrow-family

[Vaughn]

Big Easy by Surley. Made in Minnasota, I believe. Edit - company in Minnasota, bikes made in Taiwan

Took a 45 mile ride today...no camera, just a round-about way to get to a meeting in another town -- normally 8 miles of flat riding, today started with a 1600 foot climb) and a couple more not so high ones later on. Very pretty. Got home with ten miles or so of power. A distance test with major climbing...my legs are toast!

Bike did great -- up to 36mph coming downhill, but on a lane and a half of poorly paved winding road, sunlight dappled, 20 or 25mph felt saver! handles great.

From a previous single-track test of the bike (w/ 5x7) -- did great...an SOB to get up 4 feet over a fallen tree, though (and a photo from that trip...pt/pd print):

[Fred L]

Big Easy by Surley. Made in Minnasota, I believe.

Took a 45 mile ride today...no camera, just a round-about way to get to a meeting in another town -- normally 8 miles of flat riding, today started with a 1600 foot climb) and a couple more not so high ones later on. Very pretty. Got home with ten miles or so of power. A distance test with major climbing...my legs are toast!

Bike did great -- up to 36mph coming downhill, but on a lane and a half of poorly paved winding road, sunlight dappled, 20 or 25mph felt saver! handles great.

From a previous single-track test of the bike (w/ 5x7) -- did great...an SOB to get up 4 feet over a fallen tree, though (and a photo from that trip...pt/pd print):


nice set up. am I seeing another battery behind the crankshaft ?

[Vaughn]

yeah - two batteries. I can make three trips into town without worrying about recharging (15 to 25 miles trip). Winter is coming, I have fenders to put on and got some winter gloves -- wore them this morning to start off...mid 30's when I woke up, mid 40's by the time I hit the road.

[Fred L]

yeah - two batteries. I can make three trips into town without worrying about recharging (15 to 25 miles trip). Winter is coming, I have fenders to put on and got some winter gloves -- wore them this morning to start off...mid 30's when I woke up, mid 40's by the time I hit the road.

nice. that's kinda long ride for groceries ;) u going to run studded as well ? stay safe and be well

[Vaughn]

Some places south of the 49th don't get much ice in the winter (and the mileage is for round trips) :cool:. There is a small grocery store just two miles away...but banks and all that are further. I'll ride into Arcata today 8 miles) to work at the gallery. Down to 34F this morning, 40F now and might warm up 3 to 5 degrees before I need to leave,

[Tin Can]

I have studded bike tires, never mounted. I see prices have gone way up

https://www.biketiresdirect.com/search/studded-tires?adl=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwreT8BRDTARIsAJLI0KJZ1-_-JNhXZU3LFhb4Au7ikHGRy2xC796nfl4teQPWTk3GHVxlJ_saAvy1EALw_wcB



nice. that's kinda long ride for groceries ;) u going to run studded as well ? stay safe and be well

[EmoryJustice]

When I was getting into 8x10 large format several years ago, I did a one on one workshop with Tim Layton to learn the ropes. Wow does that guy know his stuff! On the last day he took out his 11x14 and I got to see first hand the process and then we went back to his darkroom where we developed the film and then made a platinum print and also a silvery chloride print. After looking at his amazing work, I knew that I could have to pursue 11x14 or another larger format. Long story short, about a year into 8x10, I got an 11x14 and I have never looked back since that time.



Thanks everyone for the advise, I've been in contact with Badger Graphic re the price of the Shen-Hao 11x14 and it seems it's much more costly than the Chamonix, so that puts that to rest...

I live in New Zealand, and no one to my knowledge has this gear close to where I live. I've used an 8x10" Deardorff before and it was fine if pretty wobbly. It was heavy and think the 11x14" Chamonix is about the same weight, in fact... Anyway, I know what I'm getting in to and people here have confirmed that I really need to budget for up to $5k USD for a one lens system with a good, matched cut film holder. I've been looking for a while and not seen anything on the used market – at least on eBay, I have no idea where else to look from NZ – so if I wait, something might come along. Eventually...

And yes, I've seen some of the Tim Layton videos on the Chamonix. He seems very impressed with it, and going by the videos I'm impressed at how rigid it seems. There are videos of other brands out there in 8x10" etc where the cameras seem really wobbly, but not the Chamonix.

As for being 'un-logical and foolish', that description certainly matches me. Perfectly good, actually great gear already and I'm looking at big, old fashioned cameras...