Cheap lenses for 5x7? 215mm Caltar?

[John Kasaian]

Well so far I've assembled a collection of 3 Agfa Anso 5x7 cameras (maybe 4) for my class and I'm trying to find lenses that won't break the bank.These would have to allow for movement and give a decent image. Modern shutters would be very nice too. G-Clarons are too expensive, though I can and probably will borrow the 240mm from the 'dorff but adding others is out of the ball park. I also have a 14" Artar that already lives aboard my 5x7. Tonight I won a 215mm f6.3 Ilex Caltar and since I'm basically a shallow, impatient type, I was wondering what I might expect on a 5x7 in the way of performance. Anyone use one of these? I'm betting that its a late Acuton--- which I understand is a copy of the Commercial Ektar---although I've never heard of a 215mm Commercial Ektar---and going through the archives I found that if so, it should have a 305mm image circle which sounds adequate. Anyone here have any experience with one of these babies on a 5x7?

[Jim Galli]

You're on the right track with the Acme #3 shuttered lenses. Kodak 8 1/2" Commercial Ektar is 215mm. Other underloved candidates are the 190mm Ilex, and Wolly Velostigmats in the 7 1/2 to 8 1/2" range.

[Nick Morris]

Hello John;

I don't know what they sell for these days, but the 203mm 7.7 Ektar in a Supermatic is a real honey of lens. I've only used it with 4x5, so I can't attest to it's 5x7 coverage. The Kodak materials I have state that it was intended for 5x7 use. I just bought an old grey Ansco 5x7 w/ 5x7 and 4x5 backs. I plan to try my 203mm Ektar w/ the 5x7. Perhaps some others have used the 203mm w/ 5x7. I be curious to know what they thought.

[Mark Sampson]

John, what I understand is that Ilex did a recalculation of the Tessar/Commercial Ektar design after Kodak discontinued them in the mid-60s. That resulted in the the Ilex-Caltar 215. The Comm Ektar is a 8-1/2", which is 215mm. I've only used the 14" version Ilex-Caltar- but was able to make a full-frame 12x enlargement from an 8x10 neg made with that lens, with no excuses needed. I'd guess that the 215 will be a fine performer.

[Aaron_5037]

Jim, Mark, What about the Ilex-Caltar 254mm (10")? Is it similiar to the Commercial Ektar design? I have one but seems to flare alot. Thanks!

[Mike Gudzinowicz]

John,

I've pasted in a list of lenses which have at least a 275 mm IC to permit adequate
movements, and I've filter out some of the most expensive lenses. You might want
to check out modern but older multicoated lenses which don't cover 8x10. The older
Ilex and Calumet lenses, for the most part, are very good and underappreciated.
Check E-Bay often.

Mike

FL f/stop model E/G Shutter IC(mm) Rise Fall Shift in. (mm)
165 mm f/6.8 Goerz Dagor 6/2 n.a. 313 2.3, 2.8; (5.8, 7.1)
165 mm f/6.8 Schneider Angulon 6/2 2 297 2.0, 2.4; (5.1, 6.1)
165 mm f/8 Goerz Wide Angle Dagor 6/2 n.a. 287 1.8, 2.2; (4.6, 5.6)
178 mm f/6.8 Goerz Dagor 6/2 n.a. 338 2.8, 3.4; (7.1, 8.6)
180 mm f/5.6 Fujinon W 6/6 1 307 2.2, 2.6; (5.6, 6.6)
180 mm f/6.8 Schneider Symmar 6/2 n.a. 302 2.1, 2.5; (5.3, 6.4)
180 mm f/5.6 Fujinon W 6/6 1 281 1.6, 2.0; (4.1, 5.1)
180 mm f/5.6 Rodenstock APO Sironar S 6/4 1 276 1.5, 1.9; (3.8, 4.8)
190 mm f/6.3 Kodak Wide Field Ektar 4/4 n.a. 348 3.1, 3.6; (7.9, 9.1)
210 mm f/6.8 Goerz Dagor 6/2 n.a. 399 4.1, 4.7; (10.4, 11.9)
210 mm f/6.8 Schneider Angulon 6/2 3 385 3.8, 4.4; (9.7, 11.2)
210 mm f/5.6 Fujinon W 6/5 1 352 3.1, 3.7; (7.9, 9.4)
210 mm f/6.8 Schneider Symmar 6/2 n.a. 352 3.1, 3.7; (7.9, 9.4)
210 mm f/6.3 Chugai Symmetrigon n.a. n.a. 311 2.3, 2.7; (5.8, 6.9)
210 mm f/6.3 Computar Symmetrigon 4/4 1 311 2.3, 2.7; (5.8, 6.9)
210 mm f/5.6 Fujinon CM-W 6/5 1 311 2.3, 2.7; (5.8, 6.9)
210 mm f/5.6 Calumet Caltar II 6/4 1 300 2.0, 2.5; (5.1, 6.4)
210 mm f/5.6 Fujinon W 6/5 1 300 2.0, 2.5; (5.1, 6.4)
210 mm f/5.6 Calumet Caltar HR 6/4 1 294 1.9, 2.3; (4.8, 5.8)
210 mm f/5.6 Calumet Caltar SII n.a. n.a. 294 1.9, 2.3; (4.8, 5.8)
210 mm f/6.8 Goerz Gold Dot Dagor 6/2 n.a. 294 1.9, 2.3; (4.8, 5.8)
210 mm f/6.8 Jenoptik Jena T 4/3 n.a. 294 1.9, 2.3; (4.8, 5.8)
210 mm f/5.6 Nikkor W 6/4 1 294 1.9, 2.3; (4.8, 5.8)
210 mm f/5.6 Rodenstock Sironar 6/4 1 294 1.9, 2.3; (4.8, 5.8)
210 mm f/5.6 Schneider Symmar 6/4 n.a. 294 1.9, 2.3; (4.8, 5.8)
210 mm f/5.6 Schneider Symmar S 6/4 1 294 1.9, 2.3; (4.8, 5.8)
210 mm f/5.6 Rodenstock Sironar N 6/4 1 289 1.8, 2.2; (4.6, 5.6)
210 mm f/5.6 Congo Alto-W 6/4 1 283 1.7, 2.1; (4.3, 5.3)
210 mm f/8 Docter Apo-Germinar W 8/8 1 283 1.7, 2.1; (4.3, 5.3)
210 mm f/9 Schneider Graphic Claron 6/2 n.a. 283 1.7, 2.1; (4.3, 5.3)
215 mm f/5.6 Calumet Caltar S n.a. n.a. 301 2.1, 2.5; (5.3, 6.4)
215 mm f/6.3 Ilex Acuton 6/4 3 301 2.1, 2.5; (5.3, 6.4)
241 mm f/6.8 Goerz Dagor 6/2 n.a. 456 5.3, 5.9; (13.5, 15.0)
240 mm f/6.8 Schneider Symmar 6/2 n.a. 403 4.2, 4.8; (10.7, 12.2)
240 mm f/9 Computar F9 6/4 3 375 3.6, 4.2; (9.1, 10.7)
240 mm f/5.6 Calumet Caltar II 6/4 3 349 3.1, 3.6; (7.9, 9.1)
240 mm f/8 Docter Apo-Germinar W 8/8 3 349 3.1, 3.6; (7.9, 9.1)
240 mm f/6.8 Goerz Golden Dagor n.a. n.a. 342 2.9, 3.5; (7.4, 8.9)
240 mm f/5.6 Calumet Caltar S n.a. n.a. 336 2.8, 3.3; (7.1, 8.4)
240 mm f/5.6 Calumet Caltar SII n.a. n.a. 336 2.8, 3.3; (7.1, 8.4)
240 mm f/9 Fujinon AS 6/4 0 336 2.8, 3.3; (7.1, 8.4)
240 mm f/6.8 Goerz Gold Dot Dagor n.a. n.a. 336 2.8, 3.3; (7.1, 8.4)
240 mm f/5.6 Nikkor W 6/4 3 336 2.8, 3.3; (7.1, 8.4)
240 mm f/5.6 Rodenstock Sironar N 6/4 3 336 2.8, 3.3; (7.1, 8.4)
240 mm f/5.6 Schneider Symmar 6/4 n.a. 336 2.8, 3.3; (7.1, 8.4)
240 mm f/5.6 Schneider Symmar S 6/4 3 336 2.8, 3.3; (7.1, 8.4)
240 mm f/9 Schneider Graphic Claron 6/2 n.a. 324 2.5, 3.0; (6.4, 7.6)
240 mm f/9 Fujinon A 6/4 0 300 2.0, 2.5; (5.1, 6.4)
240 mm f/9 Schneider G Claron 6/4 1 300 2.0, 2.5; (5.1, 6.4)
241 mm f/4.5 Wollensak Raptar Ser 2 4/3 n.a. 300 2.0, 2.5; (5.1, 6.4)
240 mm f/4.5 Schneider Xenar 4/3 n.a. 288 1.8, 2.2; (4.6, 5.6)
250 mm f/6.3 Kodak Wide Field Ektar 4/4 n.a. 460 5.4, 6.0; (13.7, 15.2)
250 mm f/6.8 Fujinon W 6/5 1 398 4.1, 4.7; (10.4, 11.9)
250 mm f/6.8 Fujinon WS 6/4 1 398 4.1, 4.7; (10.4, 11.9)
250 mm f/6.3 Fujinon CM-W 6/6 1 319 2.4, 2.9; (6.1, 7.4)
250 mm f/5.6 Fujinon NWS 6/6 n.a. 312 2.3, 2.8; (5.8, 7.1)
250 mm f/6.3 Fujinon W 6/4 1 312 2.3, 2.8; (5.8, 7.1)
250 mm f/5.6 Fujinon SF 3/3 3 300 2.0, 2.5; (5.1, 6.4)
250 mm f/5.6 Fujinon SFS 3/3 3 300 2.0, 2.5; (5.1, 6.4)
250 mm f/4.5 Jenoptik Jena T 4/3 n.a. 289 1.8, 2.2; (4.6, 5.6)
250 mm f/6.3 Congo Commercial 4/3 3 277 1.5, 1.9; (3.8, 4.8)
254 mm f/6.3 Kodak Commercial Ektar n.a. n.a. 317 2.4, 2.9; (6.1, 7.4)
254 mm f/4.5 Ilex New Paragon n.a. n.a. 287 1.8, 2.2; (4.6, 5.6)
254 mm f/6.3 Ilex Acutar 4/3 n.a. 282 1.6, 2.0; (4.1, 5.1)
254 mm f/3.5 Zeiss Tessar 4/3 n.a. 276 1.5, 1.9; (3.8, 4.8)
254 mm f/4.5 Zeiss Tessar 4/3 n.a. 276 1.5, 1.9; (3.8, 4.8)
254 mm f/6.3 Zeiss Tessar 4/3 n.a. 276 1.5, 1.9; (3.8, 4.8)

[John Kasaian]

Thank you all for your help!

Jim: I'll keep my eyes open for those lenses. Thbaks!

ngmorris: I'm very fond of the 203 f/7.7 Ektar, but by all accounts it isn't expected to prpovide enough movement on 5x7s for instructional purposes.

Mark: Very interesting---This is in one of the late Acme shutters but there is also an 215mm Ilex Caltar "S" in an even later Sieko shutter on eBAy (the price went too high for me) and I was wondering what the differences betwen them were. Confusing.

Aaron: I'll have to keep a look out for one of those too.

Mike: Wow! What a treasure trove of valuable information! What a resource!

Once again, Thank you all!

[Mike Gudzinowicz]

Note: The heading for 5x7 "Rise Fall Shift in. (mm)" should have been
"Rise Fall Shift in. (cm)"... inches and (centimeters).

[Mark Sampson]

Most of my knowledge of the Ilex lenses (such as it is) comes from an article in "View Camera" a few years back. I believe it was written by Lynn Jones, who worked at Ilex in those days, and who occasionally posts on photo.net. The one Ilex-Caltar I have used extensively is a fine performer, as I said above.

[Paul Fitzgerald]

Hi there, I assume everyone is on their best behavior.

John, I can wholeheartedly recommend the 210 mm f/6.3 Computar Symmetrigon, Lynn Jones was still ga-ga over that one in the same View Camera article and for good reason. It does cover 8x10 so full movements on 5x7, razor sharp and perfect color correction, appears to be SMC and a Copal #1 is easy to get serviced if and when needed

Ebay item # 7532682769

No, it's not me and I do not know the seller but I do know the lens. I just bought a new Copal 1 for mine. It's not for sale.

Have fun with the students.

[Ed Richards]

I can recommend the 250 mm f/6.3 Fujinon CM-W. It is terrifically sharp, bright to focus, and relatively small. KEH has them for a pretty reasonable price.