Sticky Fabric om Harrison Tents

[tgtaylor]

I've noticed that the silver fabric on the Harrison changing tent becomes "sticky" over time. I first noticed this on the pup tent which I hadn't used in awhile. There was an online post a while back suggesting that insect repellant can case this. I bought the pup used from a local Calumet several years back where it was a rental so maybe insect repellant got on it then but not while I was using it. I switched to using only thee 8x10 tent but noticed that it too was getting a little sticky on the silver fabric. Last week I set-up both to let them air out. That seems to help as they are not as sticky as before. I wonder if the stickiness is due to storing the tents in the storage sack where you usually fold them with the silver sides in contact with each other? Should they be stored set-up instead? My Thermorest air mattress specifically states to store the mattress inflated and I've kept the mattress inflated under the bed when returning from a trip. I've had the mattress for at least 10 years and never had a problem and the 8x10 Harrison for that long too.

Thomas

[Steve Sherman]

I just recently threw away a Harrison darkcloth that had a silver lining which became very sticky over time. I am especially interested in other comments on this topic as I have Harrison ULF changing tent that has been stored for several years in a closed position.
Tanks for posting this question.

[LabRat]

The biggest issue is storage where the laminated materials are rolled tight, and plasticizers in the material out-gas, and start attacking itself, while not allowing the material to evenly breathe... I have had this happen with rainjackets and some nice softboxes someone gave me, that when opened, everything was sticking to itself, after being tightly packed for about 10 years...

If only slightly sticky, clean as much of the sticky off as you can with strong detergent, alcohol, or lighter fluid, and give it a thorough wash/dry, then get a tin of mink oil leather protector from the shoe shine dept, and rub and polish it in... The mink oil will penetrate and replace some of the lost plasticizer, and the silicone in it will cap the surface... YMMV depending on how far the "disease" has developed, but will often halt it if not too far gone...

Try not to store these materials rolled up, but allow breathing space, and that goes for vinyl, plastics, or other synthetics too... And keep away from UV, or temp extremes...

But one of my nice softboxes was a real gone daddy, and repeated treatments and sunbaths etc did nothing but stick the silvered and white insides to itself and my sleeve, and smelled a little like New Jersey (same material), so it ended up going down the round hole to another life...

Call Harrison, and explain, 'cuz some mfgs will replace their products long after purchase, and don't forget to mention to them that you have been asking about this on on-line forums wondering what could cause this, and see if that helps get their attention... ;-)

Good Luck!!!

Steve K

[biedron]

On the Camera Essentials product support page https://www.cameraessentials.com/product-support they recommend storing the tent unrolled in a cardboard box.

I didn't know that when I got my first one (used). I kinda knew to store it unrolled, but I had the not-so-brilliant idea of storing it unrolled in a plastic leaf bag to keep the dust off. That was a mistake, since the tent wasn't sticky before, but since then it has become so, and seems to be getting worse with time. Tent still works perfectly well though.

Bob

[tgtaylor]

Thanks for that link biedron. I guess I never read the instructions when I bought the 8x10. I'm going to store both tents flat under the bed with the air mattress.

Thomas

[Roger Thoms]

I have a nice big mesh bag to store mine in, loosely folded and I keep it in a cool dark closet. Mine about 4 years old, so far so good.

Roger

[Jim Andrada]

I leave my Harrison tent fully set up under my wife's full size Grand piano. I knew they left all that unused space under there for something.

[AtlantaTerry]

I experienced this with a Nikon D70 DSLR that I had not used for a long time. And it was sitting in an open box near my desk, so for sure, it was not closed up in an air-tight enclosure.

It seems to me that I have also experienced something like a Harrison tent getting sticky (I don't think it was my Harrison but will check tomorrow). I wish I could remember what it was...

Steve K.: thank you for the mink oil suggestion, I will add it to my files.

[AtlantaTerry]

Just a wild idea, but what about using one of those products made to be used on automobile dashboards such as Armor All? Would it help to "rejuvenate" plastic materials that have gone sticky?

[LabRat]

I experienced this with a Nikon D70 DSLR that I had not used for a long time. And it was sitting in a cardboard box near my desk, so for sure, it was not closed up in an air-tight enclosure.

It seems to me that I have also experienced something like a Harrison tent getting sticky (I don't think it was my Harrison but will check tomorrow). I wish I could remember what it was...

Steve K.: thank you for the mink oil suggestion, I will add it to my files.

Different synthetics that are meant to be soft and flexible have a slight excess of plasticizer in them to keep them supple, and keeps them in a very slightly "melted" state, but when the plasticizer comes up to the surface of the material, it produces the "sticky" we know... If it dries out from loss of this, then hardening/cracking, but worst is gooey melting from excess... Armor-All and stuff for the car spreads silicone over to "cap " this loss, and adds a UV barrier, but does not replace plasticizer... This also happens a lot with other materials like silicone rubber grips on our cameras, tools etc... Clean-up and mink oil is your only shot, short of replacement... Soft vinyl bellows can be saved if caught in time, before the materials just melt or harden/crack...

YMMV

Steve K

ps; Terry, happy 1,000th!!! Long may you run.. sk

[BennehBoy]

What period of time are we talking about? My Harrison tent has been stored in the bag since I bought it 10 years ago and there is no stickiness. Maybe climate also plays a part, it's never particularly hot here in the UK.

[LabRat]

What period of time are we talking about? My Harrison tent has been stored in the bag since I bought it 10 years ago and there is no stickiness. Maybe climate also plays a part, it's never particularly hot here in the UK.

It's a big spin on the cosmic wheel, as there can be elements beyond our control, such as the batch of material it's been made of etc... The same material for these was used for the Photoflex softboxes I was given, that were purchased by my friend about the same time (in the late very 90's), stored side by side, and one was almost perfect (with barely a touch of sticky), while the other was sticking to itself quite a bit... Other things like my North Face rainjacket has the same materials, and was about 7 years old was rolled up tight in the bottom of one of my travelcases, and was sticking together, and some other articles I have made from the same stuff is fine...

You might be proactive and wash it down sometimes, and you can test a spot with the mink oil polish above, and see if it is not too greasy for you, but when spread and polished thin, it dries to a barely noticeable film in a day or two, so consider that... Think about how it can be stored where any of the material does not make contact with itself, but being in a soggy climate, consider what storage/use would not let it get damp or wet during use, and rolled up and stored, to avoid mold and mildew if still damp...

And don't leave it in hot or freezing cars, and if you don't want to loose it or get it damaged stupidly, don't loan it out to anyone!!! ;-)

Good Luck!!!

Steve K

[neil poulsen]

I bought 8x10 sized Harrison years ago for $60, and the intermediate lining was a little sticky. Not too bad, though.

But, I've noticed that the silver lining has started showing the same symptom. Again, not too bad, but noticeable.

I'll store it in a box and see if that helps. Probably should get a new one, though.

[Steve Sherman]

The biggest issue is storage where the laminated materials are rolled tight, and plasticizers in the material out-gas, and start attacking itself, while not allowing the material to evenly breathe... I have had this happen with rainjackets and some nice softboxes someone gave me, that when opened, everything was sticking to itself, after being tightly packed for about 10 years...

If only slightly sticky, clean as much of the sticky off as you can with strong detergent, alcohol, or lighter fluid, and give it a thorough wash/dry, then get a tin of mink oil leather protector from the shoe shine dept, and rub and polish it in... The mink oil will penetrate and replace some of the lost plasticizer, and the silicone in it will cap the surface... YMMV depending on how far the "disease" has developed, but will often halt it if not too far gone...

Try not to store these materials rolled up, but allow breathing space, and that goes for vinyl, plastics, or other synthetics too... And keep away from UV, or temp extremes...

But one of my nice softboxes was a real gone daddy, and repeated treatments and sunbaths etc did nothing but stick the silvered and white insides to itself and my sleeve, and smelled a little like New Jersey (same material), so it ended up going down the round hole to another life...

Call Harrison, and explain, 'cuz some mfgs will replace their products long after purchase, and don't forget to mention to them that you have been asking about this on on-line forums wondering what could cause this, and see if that helps get their attention... ;-)

Good Luck!!!

Steve K

Appreciate the info Steve, Not easy to find the Harrison medium size Darkcloth but I did find one @ Atlanta Camera. I will make sure and not store a tightly wrapped darkcloth on the backpack to ensure it lasting much longer than previous one. As an FYI, I have the ULF Harrison changing tent, at least 10 years old and have keep it loosely stored in the pouch that it came in, just checked it's condition and happy to report being stored in a normal below grade basement with no water issues the changing bag is as new. Appreciate the mink oil suggestion.

Cheers, SS

[Fred L]

There really is no reason for pu coatings on these tents (I have couple). Pulled one out and the black sleeves and area around it have that tell tale funky smell.

Sooo, having asked about similar issues with tent flies and floors, a Sierra Designs (they make expedition tents etc) tech suggested using, I believe, isopropyl alcohol and scrubbing away the sticky coating. Then use a product (name escapes me) to recoat.

For changing tents I would try to remove the pu coating but not bother recoating as it serves no purpose, afaik, for making the tent lightproof.

I wish you could still get Shadow Box tents as they're cotton/canvas (have had no issues with dust fwiw). Perhaps if enough people asked, Harrison could make an uncoated tent and dark cloth.

[Patrick13]

Oddly enough I just went looking for Harrison tent fixes, I got mine used several years ago and it's finally started sticking to itself.
I may try the alcohol strip to get rid of the silver gunk, thanks for the idea! It's like CPR: patient's already dead so no matter what I do I'll be ahead!

[tgtaylor]

The link posted above specifically warns against using cleaning compounds (for the exterior):

Cleaning Your Tent or Bag
Turn the tent inside out to clean the interior. Either sponge clean with water or a mild solution of dishwashing soap, or soak in a bucket of water. Set the tent up to completely air dry after washing.Machine washing or drying will damage the coating on the fabric – never machine wash or dry-clean your tent or bag. Don’t use cleaning products on the tent, as chemicals can damage the fabric coating.

Thomas

[Alan Gales]

[QUOTE=biedron;1412964]On the Camera Essentials product support page https://www.cameraessentials.com/product-support they recommend storing the tent unrolled in a cardboard box.

I read that somewhere too, so after I got my Jumbo tent, I bought a cardboard box from my local UPS store.

[LabRat]

The link posted above specifically warns against using cleaning compounds (for the exterior):

Cleaning Your Tent or Bag
Turn the tent inside out to clean the interior. Either sponge clean with water or a mild solution of dishwashing soap, or soak in a bucket of water. Set the tent up to completely air dry after washing.Machine washing or drying will damage the coating on the fabric – never machine wash or dry-clean your tent or bag. Don’t use cleaning products on the tent, as chemicals can damage the fabric coating.

Thomas

Yea, but they didn't advise about what to do about the sticky stuff...

When I tested different cleaners on the softbox, the white or silver didn't come off using barely diluted dishwashing liquid, and as this is a "go for broke" rescue effort, the sticky is hard to remove, and I suspect the coating on top is just a reflector to keep the inside of the tent cooler...

The suggestion to check sites that have camping tents etc made from this material for mfg suggestions about what to to with the sticky problem is good thinking...

Steve K

[Patrick13]

Even sticky and near dead it's better than an unmodified, stock KangRinpoche, where you can read about light leaks from the embroidery stitching that goes straight through both layers :confused: I wonder if they've improved that since then... :rolleyes:

[Jac@stafford.net]

Talcum powder and wipe it off with a microfiber towel.

[Drew Wiley]

DEET bug repellant is just about the worst thing imaginable to polyurethane coatings. But they eventually break down and get sticky anyway. I always use a thin black waste basket liner inside the tent, as a supplementary barrier to dust and contaminants.

[Larry Gebhardt]

I just pulled my Harrison Tent out of storage where it's been waiting for me to take another trip with the large format. It was nicely rolled up in its bag sitting on the shelf for several years :(. To my dismay the black fabric is now sticky and leaves a tar like residue on everything it touches. I sent a note to Camera Essentials, but they are out of the office for the next week.

Does anyone know if they can/will fix the tent, or maybe replace it at cost? If not, I wonder what's the best replacement. I did find my older PhotoFlex tent and it still seems intact and light tight. It's a bit cramped for the grafmatic and 5x7 holders, but will work on the upcoming trip.

[Robbie Bedell]

I had a Harrison tent a number of years ago that melted into a gooey mess. I called the company and was told I was welcome to buy a new one. They acted as if they couldn't care less. That was the last Harrison product I will ever purchase.

[Kiwi7475]

This is a well known issue with their products. I turned to their eBay Chinese equivalents a while back and haven’t experienced any symptoms yet. I’m actually quite happy with it.
My wallet is also happier, btw.

[Larry Gebhardt]

I had a Harrison tent a number of years ago that melted into a gooey mess. I called the company and was told I was welcome to buy a new one. They acted as if they couldn't care less. That was the last Harrison product I will ever purchase.

That's what I heard from the company as well. I did opt to buy another from the view camera store. I wanted the tent soon and I really liked my old one while it wasn't sticky. I'm hoping if I store it as recommended it will last the decades others have seen. I'm not entirely happy with the situation, but given my tent was secondhand I can't rule out mistreatment (like DEET) by the previous owner.

[Roger Thoms]

That's what I heard from the company as well. I did opt to buy another from the view camera store. I wanted the tent soon and I really liked my old one while it wasn't sticky. I'm hoping if I store it as recommended it will last the decades others have seen. I'm not entirely happy with the situation, but given my tent was secondhand I can't rule out mistreatment (like DEET) by the previous owner.

Mines ten years old, stored loosely in a large mesh bag except when traveling, so far so good. Also mine has never been exposed to DEET, sunscreen, or any kind of lotion, and since I don't wear short sleeve shirts not even my sweat.

Roger

Roger

[PRJ]

I have a Calumet which I think is just a Photoflex, or similar. No sticky anything after 15 years, but the silver on the outside flakes off. And of course the elastic ain't what it used to be, but neither am I.

[Daniel Stone]

Guys,

Just an FYI on camera essentials items: DEET(or any mild solvent, airborne or liquid) will break down the silver coating on their items.
Even the care card that is included with new tents states that the "storage bag is only for use during travel, store loosely in an open box/bag otherwise".

This is a well-known issue with these tents, however, it is NOT hard to keep them in great shape by doing the following:

1. Air them out regularly. If possible, leave them zipped open, and hang them vertically in a closet that gets used regularly.
2. DO NOT store them long-term(past a week or two max) in the "storage bag". This bag(made from 420D nylon) has a polyurethane backing applied to the back, and a DWR coating on the face, so it DOES NOT BREATHE.
3. DO NOT leave the tent rolled up tightly. The fabrics used in the construction of these tents out-gas over time, and those trapped gases can lead to premature breaking down of the fabric. Not to mention creasing the silver coating, which will promote even more rapid breaking down of the fabric.

I am working on a design for a mesh storage bag to help mitigate this issue(so it would be an accessory item), but if you want to go on-the-cheap, get yourself a mesh laundry bag at Wal-Mart and store the tent LOOSELY in that. Leave the poles in the C.E. storage bag, inside the mesh bag, as to not lose/damage them.

These tents NEED airflow, and dry conditions for storage. If your tent should get wet, let it dry COMPLETELY(as much as possible) before storing away, especially if while traveling and using the included storage bag.

From someone who actually cares, and wants to see your investment go as far as possible(not to mention a guy that sews), please re-read ^^^ :)

cheers,
Dan

[Larry Gebhardt]

Thanks Dan, I plan to store my new one as you say. I wish my old one (bought used) had come with those instructions, but I’m guessing it wasn’t known at the time it was made. When you get the bag done please let us know.

[Daniel Stone]

Thanks Dan, I plan to store my new one as you say. I wish my old one (bought used) had come with those instructions, but I’m guessing it wasn’t known at the time it was made. When you get the bag done please let us know.

Will post it here, but I do want to observe the "no business posting" sorta thing, as I know the mods can be quite picky about such postings.

-Dan

[pepeguitarra]

How long do you expect a tent like that to last? 50 years?, 25 years?, 15 years? I do not have high expectations with my tent, especially for something I am using every day. My instinct told me to keep the tent open and aired after each use. Then fold it and put it in the bag it came (if you are using it daily). For long time storage, I would not roll it, I will just keep it hanging in a dry place.

[Daniel Stone]

How long do you expect a tent like that to last? 50 years?, 25 years?, 15 years? I do not have high expectations with my tent, especially for something I am using every day. My instinct told me to keep the tent open and aired after each use. Then fold it and put it in the bag it came (if you are using it daily). For long time storage, I would not roll it, I will just keep it hanging in a dry place.

Same theory goes with tents. Sadly, we usually see how quickly people go through tents and other goods made with PU coated materials.

I have a tent that is easily 10-15 years old(I am the second owner), and I keep mine open and on the table in my shop space, pretty much all the time. I have the space, but if I didn't I would keep it stored as I described in my prior reply.

-Dan

[stawastawa]

One thing I do prior to storage is put a thin cotton sheet over the tent. I then loosely roll it up and put it in a box. This adds a layer of separation so none of the tent is folded up against itself. More space for air to get in/out and breath.

[pepeguitarra]

One thing I do prior to storage is put a thin cotton sheet over the tent. I then loosely roll it up and put it in a box. This adds a layer of separation so none of the tent is folded up against itself. More space for air to get in/out and breath. Great idea, thanks.

[Paul Ron]

the sticky coating is a polymer break down common to some water proof materials. ive had several backpacking tents that had the same problem. with camping tents, the manufacturers usually replace them under warantee as defective material. ive had this happen to a couple tents that were 5 or more years old regardless of how they were cared for. its the uv that causes the break down.

have you tried contacting the manufacture?

.

[Larry Gebhardt]

the sticky coating is a polymer break down common to some water proof materials. ive had several backpacking tents that had the same problem. with camping tents, the manufacturers usually replace them under warantee as defective material. ive had this happen to a couple tents that were 5 or more years old regardless of how they were cared for. its the uv that causes the break down.

have you tried contacting the manufacture?

.

Yes, they suggested I buy a new one. I can see them not replacing it given the age. I think the manufacturer is a very small operation, maybe one person.

[Daniel Stone]

Yes, they suggested I buy a new one. I can see them not replacing it given the age. I think the manufacturer is a very small operation, maybe one person.

When I first started up with building gear in August 2016, I purchased some material from a small cut & sew contractor up in the San Fernando Valley. They were the contractor that sewed many of the items for C.E. I only found out about this when I noticed a couple rolls of the silver material they use on the shelves, and the (new) owner of the shop told me whose material that was(and wasn't for sale). So they might be a small(er) operation now, but they were definitely having things sewn by outside shops.

I have no idea how large of a company C.E. is nowadays, but they do have a pretty good list of distributors worldwide.

-Dan

[AtlantaTerry]

The suggestion about storing Harrison tents in a box got me thinking about what kind of box would be appropriate.
It would need to be big enough to allow me to store my film changing tent flat and keep it as dust-free as possible. But at the same time, not be so large that it would take up too much space.
The answer: a pizza box!
Later today, I will head over to my local pizza shop to get one of their larger boxes and give the owner a couple dollars for his trouble.

[nbagno]

There really is no reason for pu coatings on these tents (I have couple). Pulled one out and the black sleeves and area around it have that tell tale funky smell.

Sooo, having asked about similar issues with tent flies and floors, a Sierra Designs (they make expedition tents etc) tech suggested using, I believe, isopropyl alcohol and scrubbing away the sticky coating. Then use a product (name escapes me) to recoat.

For changing tents I would try to remove the pu coating but not bother recoating as it serves no purpose, afaik, for making the tent lightproof.

I wish you could still get Shadow Box tents as they're cotton/canvas (have had no issues with dust fwiw). Perhaps if enough people asked, Harrison could make an uncoated tent and dark cloth.

The inside pockets of the shadow box uses a material which may be the same as the Harrison tents. My shadow box pockets are sticky just like my Harrison tent [emoji58]


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