Super Angulon 65mm f/8 on Crown Graphic – a couple of questions

[ottluuk]

I recently acquired a 4x5 Crown Graphic – partly as a portable complement to my Linhof monorail, partly in hope to use it as a wide angle camera.

I already own a 90/5.6 SA but would like a wider lens. I'm looking at the more affordable options in 65-75mm lenses and have some questions:

1. Looking at flange focal distances of some of these lenses and sticking a ruler into the camera, it seems to me that most 75mm lenses would sit at or near the hinges of the rails. It leads me to think a 65mm would be simpler to use – the lens would sit firmly on the inner rails and apart from dropping the bed out of view, no extra fiddling with the setup would be needed. Does this make sense?

2. Specifically concerning the Super Angulon 65/8... I am aware of the coverage limits. But what about focussing? Is it still feasible at 65mm and f/8? My camera has the original fresnel lens setup (as far as I can tell) and I'd like to keep it that way. I can focus my 121/8 SA on the Linhof (no fresnel) but that's not nearly as wide.

3. Is it possible to fold the camera with a 65/8 SA inside?

thanks in advance

[koraks]

I can only comment on the focusing issue. I found the SA 65/8 easy to focus in broad daylight. With a fresnel, it was doable in the shadows as well. Indoors, it didn't work well for me. I dumped it and went for a Nikkor 75/4.5 mostly due to the coverage limits of the 65/8. I don't regret it one bit. The Nikkor is a breeze to use; I never liked the SA 65/8 much at all.

[xkaes]

Many wide-angle lenses have flange focal lengths longer than their optical focal length. For example, Fuji's 65mm lenses have FFLs of 70-75mm. This will help you out.

http://www.subclub.org/fujinon/byfl.htm

[djdister]

I think your main challenge will be trying to keep the front end of the bed/rails out of the shot, even with dropping the front bed. And forget about doing a vertical shot with a 65mm Graphic or similar camera - rails galore...

Like in the bottom middle of this 65mm shot with a Horseman 45FA...
171084

[xkaes]

I fully agree, but with a little bit of cropping -- Heaven forbid -- you have a GREAT shot!

And WIDE-angle lenses are great for panoramas. That's one of the reasons they are called "WIDE ANGLE".

[djdister]

I fully agree, but with a little bit of cropping -- Heaven's forbid -- you have a GREAT shot!

And WIDE-angle lenses are great for panoramas. That's one of the reasons they are called "WIDE ANGLE".

Yes, its an easy crop, and a 6x12 rollfilm back would work just great.

[Dan Fromm]

4x5 Crown Graphic's minimum extension is 52.4 mm. 65/8 SA's claimed coverage is 155 mm. Flange-to-film distance is 70.5 mm. Go measure.

Dropped be should not be in frame.

[ottluuk]

I think your main challenge will be trying to keep the front end of the bed/rails out of the shot, even with dropping the front bed. And forget about doing a vertical shot with a 65mm Graphic or similar camera - rails galore...

Like in the bottom middle of this 65mm shot with a Horseman 45FA...
171084

The Crown Graphic has a fixed horizontal back so for a vertical frame you turn the whole camera on its side. So the bed either comes into the view or it doesn't, regardless of orientation.

[Corran]

My first 4x5 field camera was a Crown Graphic. I was able to use a 58mm XL on it and not have the bed in the frame once the bed was dropped. So you should be fine with a 65mm. Also, the 58mm XL's FFD is 70mm, while the 65mm f/8 is 70.5mm, according to Schneider. I had no problem with my 58mm XL having to be in that problem area where the hinge of the bed is, so the 65mm would most likely be fine as well.

I just gave a friend my 65mm f/8 to borrow and I don't have a Crown anymore, else I'd check, but I'm pretty sure I remember the above correctly.

[ottluuk]

Well, I ordered a 65/8 SA and will report back once I've received and tried it.

[ottluuk]

I've had the 65mm SA for a while now but due to downright dreary weather conditions I have managed only a couple of outings with the Crown. But for the benefit of others who might find this thread, I can now answer my own questions with some detail.

1. Lens position. This works exactly as I hoped: I can lock the front standard on the front end of the inner rails (clearing the hinges completely) and the focussing mechanism provides ample travel from infinity to near distances. The bed does not intrude the frame in the dropped position. Lens is on a flat board.

Since the front standard sits inside the camera body in this configuration, only about half a centimetre of rise is possible – perhaps a bit more if you remove the wire frame viewfinder from the front standard. The lens only covers 4x5 straight on at f/22 but you can use that little bit of rise with roll film backs or 9x12 cm sheet film.

2. Focussing at f/8 is not so great but is doable in decent light. I intend to mark the rails so I could set the camera roughly at the hyperfocal distance without squinting at the ground glass.

3. My sample of the 65/8 SA (Compur 00, 49mm filter thread – not sure if different variants were made) can be safely folded inside the Crown Graphic. Very practical.

The biggest annoyance so far is the 00 shutter with its tiny controls and no built-in facility to keep it open for focussing.

173736

[djdister]

How about some shots with the lens? A 65mm will allow for good interior shots - no need to shoot outside...

[Neal Chaves]

I see you have a TRF Crown Graphic. I had a 65mm f8 Fujinon on mine and cut a cam for RF focusing. I put the infinity stops on the rails behind the lens (they had to be lowered to push the lens in for storage in the case). I used a 20mm Russian 35mm view finder that gave a quite accurate view of a slightly cropped 4X5.