ULF Tripod and Tripod Head Discussion

[Michael Kadillak]

Since we were getting off topic from the previous discussion in ULF and the Lotus camera, felt it was appropriate to start a new thread.

As per your previous mention of your tripod Greg, I can attest I have a Linhof Heavy Duty Tripod and it is the heaviest piece of photographic equipment I have ever handled. It must have been designed for the studio and as a result it holds my Linhof 8x10 Color Karden triplex in the basement. The Ries A100 with the 250 adjustable head is a great option for ULF as it has a large metal base on the head of 6x6". I also use a Majestic tripod with a 1200 head that has a large base platform and the Majestic serves a unique purpose in the sense that it is not much heavier than the Ries and allows me to use its two rise features to gain a proper higher perspective when needed. It is amazing sometimes when even a few get of higher view can change the manner with which the compositional elements come together in a shot and with a light weight aluminum ladder behind it.

Not sure if Jim was talking about the Kessler tripod or a quick release component. I went to their website and was not sure what they offer to use as a quick release for LF cameras. I will let Jim chime in when he can and clarify his comment.

[Michael Jones]

When I to 20x24, I moved up to a Ries A system and the -2 head. The sheer mass sitting on the tripod (rather than the weight) was critical to my choice. Even though the camera only weight 25#, the usual A-250 head would not lock as firmly as I wanted in positons other than neutral. Just enough give or wiggle to change image while I was tightening it down. No such issue with the -2 head. There is sufficient friction and immediate "grab" when tightening down there is no extra movement.

Mounting was a pain until I went with a Clean Quick Release system. It requires a bit of modification to the tripod & camera base so as to use its multiple screws, but with a 4-3/4″ x 3-1/8″” plate, it holds and is literally a snap to set or remove. I recommend it to anyone with a big camera (overkill for 8x10).

https://cleanscamerasupport.com/product/quick-release-base/

I agree with Michael that the Majestic is a generally overlooked step child. It is old school heavy duty with a plate large enough for darn near anything. I used it for my 8x20 for the same reasons as Michael and even bought the mounting slug so I could transfer the head to other tripods.

[Michael Kadillak]

When I to 20x24, I moved up to a Ries A system and the -2 head. The sheer mass sitting on the tripod (rather than the weight) was critical to my choice. Even though the camera only weight 25#, the usual A-250 head would not lock as firmly as I wanted in positons other than neutral. Just enough give or wiggle to change image while I was tightening it down. No such issue with the -2 head. There is sufficient friction and immediate "grab" when tightening down there is no extra movement.

Mounting was a pain until I went with a Clean Quick Release system. It requires a bit of modification to the tripod & camera base so as to use its multiple screws, but with a 4-3/4″ x 3-1/8″” plate, it holds and is literally a snap to set or remove. I recommend it to anyone with a big camera (overkill for 8x10).

https://cleanscamerasupport.com/product/quick-release-base/

I agree with Michael that the Majestic is a generally overlooked step child. It is old school heavy duty with a plate large enough for darn near anything. I used it for my 8x20 for the same reasons as Michael and even bought the mounting slug so I could transfer the head to other tripods.

Amazing what is available in the market for camera attachment to tripod heads. I had no idea. My first reaction was $375 lighter in the wallet and a pound and a half of additional weight is not something that is absolutely critical to the process at least for me. Rather deploy that capital to sheet film. For me the make up screw is like a handshake from an old storied friend. I know when it is made up firmly, it ain't going anywhere even pointing down into a canyon.

[Michael Jones]

I agree it is extreme overkill for 99% of the equipment out there. But the weight is negligible; the A-100 and A-250II are like moving lead pipe anyway. 8 ounces on the bottom of a Ritter was not an issue to me ( I did not notice 8 more ounces on my former Toyo 810 either :-) ). Its the absolute security of 4 square feet of camera mated firmly to the tripod that sold me. That video of Filip fighting his 20x24 on to a tripod told me a secure quick release was in my future. With this one, one click and the two are one.

Mike

[John Jarosz]

I suppose the most important property of the tripod(s) for ULF is weight. Heavier can't hurt, except that it limits how far you can carry the whole mess to make an exposure.:D

That said, my setup is heavy but I have tried to minimize any excessive weight. Anyway, a lot of what follows was made by me.

For 8x20 and 8x10, I use an old Gitzo tipod with a Majestic head as the basis. I've built a strut that incorporates the mounting block of the Kodak 2D cameras. Both the 8x10 and 8x20 are Kodak 2D's. The strut has a Bogen hex plate bolted to 2 locations, one for the Majestic head and one for the Gitzo monopod. Mounted to the Majestic is a really old hex plate adapter that uses a screw clamp instead of the current spring clamp. I wo uld not trust the spring clamps with ULF (or even the 8x10), the screw clamp really allows me to rigidly connect to the hex plate. I position the tripod, then extend the monopod to the ground while the camera is actually aimed high on the subject. I use the geared Majestic control to force the strut down and compress the monopod. Doing this places a portion of the weight on the monopod. I can make minute up/down adjustments with the rising/falling front if I need to. Now this is not as effective against wind with as using two tripods, I just don't shoot in windy conditions with the 8x20 - it's too much of a kite. But using the monopod is a big help in minimizing transient vibrations from shutter trip and other mechanical causes of vibration. For panning I added a worm gear to the base of the Majestic.

I imagine everyone has their own personal approach to tripod use with these beasts.

[Michael Kadillak]

I agree it is extreme overkill for 99% of the equipment out there. But the weight is negligible; the A-100 and A-250II are like moving lead pipe anyway. 8 ounces on the bottom of a Ritter was not an issue to me ( I did not notice 8 more ounces on my former Toyo 810 either :-) ). Its the absolute security of 4 square feet of camera mated firmly to the tripod that sold me. That video of Filip fighting his 20x24 on to a tripod told me a secure quick release was in my future. With this one, one click and the two are one.

Mike

Point of clarification just in case I am missing something here. The link you included on the quick release plate had it listed as weighing 1# 8 ounces or 24 ounces.

[Michael Jones]

Michael:

The 1.5# is for the quick release & the 8 oz. is correct for the quick release plate itself:

https://cleanscamerasupport.com/product/touch-and-go-plate/

so a total of 2 additional pounds for the mounting system.

I've been thinking about adding a Manfrotto arm I have read about to stabilize the front standard when using a long lens, but honestly, I cannot find the part number...

Mike

[Jim Fitzgerald]

I was speaking about the quick release from Kessler. It works well for my 8x20 and 11x14 and I feel that it is a secure system on my Gitzo 1570M head. I went to my heavy tripod and the A 250-2 head for my 14x17 which is really a 20x24 camera. The camera will be more secure I feel attached to the head.

[Bruce Schultz]

Michael, What is a -2 tripod head?

Is this the Manfrotto support arm you mentioned? I have one and it works fairly well.
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/554349-REG/Manfrotto_359_359_Long_Lens_Support.html

[William Whitaker]

Bruce,
Pretty sure he meant the Ries A250-2 head which is a more robust version of the A250 head.

[Michael Jones]

Michael, What is a -2 tripod head?

Is this the Manfrotto support arm you mentioned? I have one and it works fairly well.
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/554349-REG/Manfrotto_359_359_Long_Lens_Support.html

Burce:

Will is correct: the Reis A-250-2 head. Sorry for any confusion.

And that is exactly the arm I am looking for! Thank you!

Mike

[dodphotography]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171014/d08841e8070c7f57b9369b3b6ae772f8.jpg

I'm really not sure about this tripod. The A250-2 head is amazing but the way the Ries legs unlock and such is a head scratcher for me. Obviously LF / ULF isn't fast but the set up of this thing is painful.


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[Vaughn]

Setting my Ries is as fast (if not faster) as any other big tripod I have ever seen/used. Perhaps practice will make it the same as you. What especially seems odd to you about the Reis pod's set-up?

One thing I would suggest is extending the lower legs a little more so you don't put the leg-tighteners into the ground.

[dodphotography]

Setting my Ries is as fast (if not faster) as any other big tripod I have ever seen/used. Perhaps practice will make it the same as you. What especially seems odd to you about the Reis pod's set-up?

I've used RRS and some Gitzo fancy 3 series someone gave me for free (nice friends I have) and there's no way the Ries is as fast. A quick wrist snap and my legs are extended.

I find it hard to get the tripod somewhat level with the legs being able to be set at any angle. I see that as a strength if I'm somewhere with some strange terrain.

I suppose I'm just not used to it. Just adjusting it while a camera is loaded makes me really sweat.


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[Tin Can]

Speaking of painful, I borrowed an older Gitzo Series 5 tripod. Thanks, Peter!

I cannot use the Gitso, my arthritic hands scream in defeat just attempting to loosen or tighten the leg clamps. Very glad I didn't buy one. His Arca ball head is wonderful. On smaller cameras.

I use Kessler Crane QR with KWIK STAND XL (http://www.kesslercrane.com/kwik-stands), 11X14 Chamonix on Majestic head and tripod. I need a big QR as direct mount is also a finger battle. I might drop the whole contraption.

Now I hear the Ries knobs 'bite'. I'll stick with big Linhof or a Majestic. I can operate those.

[dodphotography]

Speaking of painful, I borrowed an older Gitzo Series 5 tripod. Thanks, Peter!

I cannot use the Gitso, my arthritic hands scream in defeat just attempting to loosen or tighten the leg clamps. Very glad I didn't buy one. His Arca ball head is wonderful. On smaller cameras.

I use Kessler Crane QR with KWIK STAND XL (http://www.kesslercrane.com/kwik-stands), 11X14 Chamonix on Majestic head and tripod. I need a big QR as direct mount is also a finger battle. I might drop the whole contraption.

Now I hear the Ries knobs 'bite'. I'll stick with big Linhof or a Majestic. I can operate those.

I'm 32 with a good grip and moose hands and I really have to crank those brass knobs. Well made though for sure!


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[Vaughn]

Adjust the legs while the camera is on the pod? I only occasionally need to do that -- I guess working with the Reis (8x10 and 11x14) for 30 years has caused me to develop habits best suited for the Ries. I find leveling to be quick on even and uneven ground -- again probably due to practice. But I rarely level the pod with the camera on it. Remembering to lock the legs in place is my toughest challenge...I tend to leave them all loose until I have the pod leveled. Occasionally I will need to move the pod (with camera on it) a foot or two or three. With the legs locked, this has been pretty easy, terrain permitting.

I carry the pod with the legs already extended to the usual leg length I use. I find it easier to carry with the legs extended -- no knobs near my shoulders when I carry it over my shoulder and it carries better balanced. I also use it as a climbing assist, and de-weight it (by placing it on the ground) when stepping up or down, so that my legs/knees do not have to lift or lower the weight...the pack with the 8x10 is enough for my old knees. I have taken a few good falls with it -- so far so good for both of it. A tough pod! A carbon fiber or aluminum pod would have been toast.

I have not handled a new one, but mine does not have to be over-tightened or hard cranked to be steady and un-movable.

[Alan Gales]

I own 2 Ries tripods, the A100 and J100. Each have double tilt heads. I have no problem with tightening the brass knobs. My J100 head had the old chrome disc knob which I changed out for a brass knob. The disc knobs tore your hands up tightening them!

Set-up is fast enough for me. I shoot an 8x10 Wehman and absolutely love the leg locks. Like Vaughn, I normally level the tripod before attaching the camera. I have a bad back but I have moved my J100 tripod a short distance with camera attached and leveled it with no problem.

You have to get used to your equipment but even then what works for one person won't for the next.

[Luis-F-S]

I use a Ries A100 with the A200 single tilt head on my V11 with no issues, and I'm a whole lot older than 34!

I also have several majestic heads as well as a J100 (for 57) & J100-2 (for 8x10) legs and a Gitzo 5 series. Of all, I prefer the Ries!

[Michael Jones]

And that is exactly the arm I am looking for! Thank you!

Mike

So I want to the B&H page, decided this is what I need. But the best part is in the reviews:

Excellent support at a great price By Higherres

I work in ULF and mammoth plate wet collodion. My largest camera is a 22x27" and requires two tripods, plus two of these support arms to ensure as much stability as possible. It has helped tremendously to have these, and has made it much quicker and easier to set up my gigantic rig.
I highly recommend them.

and Higherres posted his setup. Photos attached.

The Gitzo, Reis, and Manfrotto arm combo are more common that one may think!

Mike

[William Whitaker]

My first 8x10 camera was acquired in 1995. With it I bought a Ries A-100 with the A250 head and never looked back. 22 years later I object to the weight of the Ries. But then, I object to the weight of the 8x10, too. But once the camera is assembled on the Ries, it is a pleasure to use. Thing is, for 8x10 I use a Sinar Norma and support it not with a Ries, but with a Gitzo 1548 Mk2 with the Sinar Pan/Tilt head. For that camera the Gitzo is completely adequate and is far easier to transport. The only downside is that the leg extension locks are the twist-lock collars which, if over-tightened, can be a real pain to loosen and may be the ones Randy referred to above. I try to remember to tighten only as much as necessary. (It doesn't take a lot.)

170920

My current Ries is an old model "A", precursor to the A-100, made by Paul Ries when the company was in Hollywood. I have a thing for vintage and this one suits me fine in spite of the lack of more modern refinements such as the "tri-lock mechanism" to secure the leg angle. This tripod replaced my earlier A-100 and is now the foundation for my 12x20 and 14x17 cameras with occasional duty supporting an Ansco 8x10. The head is the old Photoplane head. Again not as refined as the current line of heads, but quite sufficient for my needs including ULF.

170921 170922

Ron Wisner back in the day sold the Ries heads with a covering of bellows leather. I borrowed that idea and found some thin leather with which to cover the top of the Photoplane head. It provides a layer of protection between the head and whatever is attached to it. And it provides a friction surface against which to secure the camera to help prevent twisting or "unintended panning".

My 12x20 is a modified Folmer & Schwing. Modifications include converting the back to accept Korona-style film holders so I can use S&S holders. Also the original ground glass springs were replace with modern stainless steel springs purchased from Dick Phillips. The brass knobs indicate that this is an earlier version camera (according to piercevaubel.com), probably made c.1915 or shortly thereafter. So still keeping with the vintage thing.

I made a platform which I've written up previously in these pages. This time, though, I thought I'd add some photos in case anyone might like to copy the idea. It's very specific to the camera. The only camera for which I've made a platform is the 12x20 as that seems to be the one which best benefits from it.

The platform itself is made from 3/4" plywood. There are stiles that run the length of the board, left and right. The width between the stiles is chosen to match exactly the width of the base of the 12x20. That way the camera won't twist on the platform (unintended panning).

170923

(continued...)

[William Whitaker]

(continuation)


Similarly, on the bottom of the platform are two strips of wood that lie in a 1/4" groove the length of the platform. These strips are spaced exactly so that they lie on either side of the top of the Ries head. In this way the platform is kept from twisting atop the Ries head (again with that unintended panning).

170924

The picture above shows the underside of the platform. You can see where there are two brass threaded bushings. Theoretically that was to allow offsetting the camera assembly to the rear in case I used a heavy lens. In practice it is not necessary and the first threaded bushing moving away from the camera screw is the only one I've ever needed or used. The camera screw was swiped from an old tripod and has the lock-down nut.

To set up the camera, the tripod is planted and leveled. I usually set up with two legs away from me and one pointing to the rear. That way I can level the horizon on the ground glass by picking up only the one leg pointing back at me and moving it left or right a small amount. That translates to motion along the "roll axis" (effectively the optical axis) and very neatly allows me to level the horizon (all the more important on a 12x20 or similar semi-panoramic camera). If you have an A-250 Ries head you can simply employ the built-in side-to-side level adjustment. But for those of us stuck in 2-axis world, wagging the tripod's tail works very nicely.

With all knobs locked down the camera is placed on the platform between the stiles with the bed still folded.

170925

The camera is slid back so that the rear of the bed is flush with the back edge of the platform.

170926

(continued...)

[William Whitaker]

(continuation)


That insures that the camera screw is perfectly lined up with the threaded bushing in the bottom of the camera. We've all at one time or another stood there trying fit the camera screw into the hole on the bottom of the camera with beads of sweat running down our foreheads. You can't see what you're doing 'cause it might as well be on the far side of the moon and you're just imagining what sort of damage you're doing to your favorite camera you just paid too much for on Ebay. Yep, we all been there; done that.

This totally eliminates that problem. Camera sits atop the platform, automatically squared up and pointing in the right direction. You push up on the camera screw and it very satisfyingly hits home and all you have to do is tighten said screw and you're done. Well, almost.

Lower the front extension. (It's like a drawbridge on this camera.) Now you're done

170928

My Ries A is slightly larger than the modern A-100 I used to have. I have not weighed it, but it is substantial. I found a used Fiber-bilt case for it on Ebay. That works very well for transporting it as it protects the tripod and protects car window glass and friends from pointy spike tips. But it's a lot to carry. Just across the parking lot is enough for me. And the case closed up with tripod inside measures 50 inches long. So it's still an armful.

170929

I apply an occasional coat of Johnson's Paste Wax and that seems to keep it happy. For that matter, that's what I used on the platform. First I stained it with a stain from General that closely matches the Folmer. The I applied paste wax over it and buffed it. Protects the wood and allows the camera to be slid as needed for adjustment.

Very simple construction and materials. I used a table saw and a router table, although the whole thing could easily enough have been done on the table saw alone.

Mods: If this is better suited for the DIY forum, then please transplant it. But it seemed very germane to the conversation here.

[Hatrick]

I have had great success using Survey instrument tripods both wood and aluminum and where utmost stability is required I mount the camera directly to the top of the tripod.
170930

[dodphotography]

Love the idea of leather on the Ries head. My Chamonix 11x14 definitely slips a bit on the head despite me giving the screw the tightest lock down I can physically muster.


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[Keith Pitman]

Love the idea of leather on the Ries head. My Chamonix 11x14 definitely slips a bit on the head despite me giving the screw the tightest lock down I can physically muster.


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Cork works very well also. Find it at an auto parts store where they sell sheets for gaskets. Get the thinnest and glue it down with thin coatings of contact cement.

[dodphotography]

Cork works very well also. Find it at an auto parts store where they sell sheets for gaskets. Get the thinnest and glue it down with thin coatings of contact cement.

Thanks! That's my project this week.


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