Third party Jobo tanks on eBay.

[Lachlan 717]

Saw a listing for a Jobo-style tank on eBay today.

It's listed as a 2500 tank, and looks like it (see below).

The Seller also has 4x5 reels and tanks, but not Expert series.

There's a thread on Photrio (formally APUG) about Chinese knock-off Jobo products, but this is the first I've seen of tanks/drums.

Wonder what the quality's like? Photos are limited...

170755

[BennehBoy]

Found this one which has better photos -> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Poilot-P2550-Multitank5-135-120-sheet-Film-developing-Tank-for-JOBO-Processor-/232438714529

From the pics it looks identical in every way to a Jobo item.

[BennehBoy]

Looking at the label on the tank it seems to show that only 300ml of chemistry is required to develop 3 8x10 sheets with their PL810 reel. This is half the chemistry that the CL81 requires.... Not sure I believe it to be honest....

[Duolab123]

I bought a 1500 series knock off reel. Kinda a cross between a Jobo and AP reel. It had way too much play in the reel. The nice fellow refunded my money. I ended up throwing out the reel.
He sells the plastic panels that fit my Jobo 2509n reels, those worked fine. I was curious.
My opinion for rotary processing Genuine Jobo is worth every penny.
Best Regards Mike

[minh0204]

Those tanks are for the Chinese-made Orisis F1 automatic film processor (http://www.osirisfilm.com/?_l=en). I have one that is an EXACT copy of Jobo 2520. However the fit and finish of the tank is not great.

The machine seems very nice but probably will never sell outside of China, because of the mountain of patterns it will violate.

[David Aimone]

Well, in search of rotary processing on a roller base of 5x7 film, I took the plunge. I will report back if and how well it works when it arrives...

[wooserco]

Well, given that the link posted above comes back as invalid; I hope that it wasn't a huge sum of money!

[David Aimone]

I can dispute it on eBay if it doesn't arrive in a satisfactory manner, but I do have tracking numbers for the order...


Well, given that the link posted above comes back as invalid; I hope that it wasn't a huge sum of money!

[hporter]

I was just thinking about your purchase this morning, and marked his current 5x7 tank auction to be watched. Anxiously awaiting your receipt of your tank....

[David Aimone]

I'll let you know when it comes in. Two shipments/tracking numbers, with a wide range of delivery dates...


I was just thinking about your purchase this morning, and marked his current 5x7 tank auction to be watched. Anxiously awaiting your receipt of your tank....

[David Aimone]

So, the first package arrived last night, the other one looks like tomorrow. I think I'll divide my "review" into three parts: 1) first look at the tank (in my possession); 2) first look at the 5x7 reels (coming tomorrow), and 3) seeing if it works as a rotary processing tank as advertised for 5x7.

Part one is simple. The outer box looks like it went through hell to get here, but the inner product box looks fine and so do the parts in side (tank, lid, cap, spindle).
Generally, the product looks good, although all the parts are definitely a bit thinner of a gauge plastic than the original Jobo. When putting the lid on the tank and cap on the lid, you have to be a bit more careful to put it on straight, and to put them on all the way. There's a bit of wiggle room for not putting them on straight or completely, so that is important.

Once the lid is locked on, it seems to be firmly on just like the JOBO, though it's a bit easier to accidentally move the lock on ring of the lid, which will make it not so firmly on. So, it looks like it might work fine, just handle with a bit more care than the JOBO.

So, in the second and third parts, we'll see a) if the reels go together well and hold 5x7 film nicely; b) if the tank leaks at all during rotary processing; and c) how the film comes out.

I don't think I'll be using the 300ml recommended as a minimum for rotary processing. That amount of Pyrocat MC would get exhausted long before finishing the development of six 5x7" film sheets anyway. I'm thinking I need at least 100ml per sheet, maybe more.

174323174324174325174326

[David Aimone]

Just two videos showing a bit more wobble in the Poilot tank (both are empty)

JOBO:

https://youtu.be/IMRNhntKr0E

Also, the tanks (empty, no reels, spindles or caps) weigh 14.2 ounces (Jobo) vs. 12.1 ounces (Poilot)

Apparently I can't put two video links in one post, so another post coming....

[David Aimone]

https://youtu.be/2N6FNijNsWA

[Fred L]

thanks for the videos. so the the injection mold was not symmetrical I'm guessing. altho the wobble might help with agitation, not unlike the Simma roller base with eccentric wheels.

[David Aimone]

Ok, so the reel arrived. The box looked ominous (see photo), but somehow the parts are intact. So I put it together (easy). Not cast iron but modestly sturdy. Putting film in it was a little challenging, but I think one could get the hang of it easy enough. The first time I did it with my eyes open, the second time with eyes closed. The film was in correctly even with eyes closed. Promising.

So, the proof will be in the pudding. I will process 6 sheets of 5x7" Arista EDU 400 in 1:2:100 pyrocat-mc as I normally do with 4x5 film in rotary processing: 11 minutes at 72 degrees fahrenheit and see what happens, and report back.

174355
174356
174357

[David Aimone]

I decided before processing the real thing (important negatives), I'd use those six disposable 5x7 sheets to do a shortened run through. I used a couple of water changes, starting with 800ml, then 700 ml, no red cap on. Findings are as follows:

a) sheets stayed in place well.
b) tank easy to fill and empty
c) no leakage (I was the most worried about this since the top isn't on quite as securely as the one on my JOBO)
d) without the red cap, 800ml is pushing it, as it's almost full enough to come out the opening. 700 or less is fine, and I think that's enough to process six 5x7's (Sandy King estimates 90ml/5x7 so there's wiggle room).

As far as the 300ml they say is needed for 5x7 rotary processing? Beside the capability of the developer to handle it, I'm skeptical that it would cover the film well all the way. I'm thinking at least the JOBO stated minimum of 560ml, but who knows? I'm not going to test that. I've been using 800ml for 8 4x5" sheets, so 700ml for 6 5x7's is even a bit of a reduction for me, but Sandy King's suggestion is at least 540ml for 6 5x7's, so I hope I'm good.

When the tank and reel dry out, I reload the reel with the "real" thing and get back to you.

[hporter]

a) sheets stayed in place well.

David, thank you for reporting your initial thoughts on this reel. I was curious if the film might shift around in the reel when I first saw these on the auction site. From the results of your first test, it looks like the reel will work fine. I have a few 2550 tanks, so I think I will just order the reel for the time being.

I have really enjoyed my Catlabs CL-81, which I assume they based this model on. It works very well to quickly process a couple sheets of 8x10 film. It will be great to have a similar option for 5x7 film.

Harold

[David Aimone]

Developing six as I type, in the fixer. So far so good


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[David Aimone]

Developing went great; negatives look good. When they dry I'll scan and report if any uneven development, and my recommendations for these products, pros and cons...
174363

[Jac@stafford.net]

Just two videos showing a bit more wobble in the Poilot tank (both are empty)

Wobble is good. I modified my roller to add wobble to help the chemistry blend, move around a bit.

Thanks for the review, David.

[David Aimone]

The Good, the Not So Good, and the Ugly

I'm not giving up quite yet on this tank and reel, but the negatives show a problem. This problem may be heightened by the use of Pyrocat-MC in glycol, but it's a problem.

The good: The development went without a hitch, easy fill and empty, no leaking, no shifting of film.

The not so good: I really like use of the reel, loading, solid enough, and fits nicely onto the spindle and into the tank. The tank itself works as advertised, but the top doesn't fit snugly on the tank. It doesn't leak, but you have to double check to make sure it's on straight and then handle gingerly to make sure you don't accidentally loosen it. Not like the JOBO tank, when the top is on it's ON. That said, it did stay on for me fine through the entire process and I'm guessing it would pretty much every time if vigilant.

The ugly: Hanging up the negatives look lovely. Scanning, the negatives look lovely..........except..... for the two streaks of underdevelopment across the 5" dimension of the negative corresponding to where the two supports are spaced slightly apart halfway across the long side of the negative. So for example (and I'll post examples later), in a portrait mode image, the underdevelopment streaks would be horizontal across the middle of the portrait near the center.

174364

I may try another film/developer combination to see if this effect persists. Other than that, open to suggestions. This was promising, but maybe not the holy grail for rotary 5x7 processing....

By the way, 700ml developer, continuous rotary agitation for 11 minutes; Pyrocat-MC 1:2:100 at 72F

[David Aimone]

Ok, so I contacted the seller on eBay and sent him pictures of the scanned negatives and detailed my development process.

Here is one of the photos that I sent to him:

174481

His reply was that he would gladly refund my purchase, but thought a slower, more gentle rotation would work. So I tried it. It's slightly better, but still prominent. New scan:

174482

So, I think I'll contact him and return it. It's a shame, it would've been nice.

Here's a really annoying video of me gently turning it on a manual roller base (as opposed to my bi-directional motor base):

https://youtu.be/gF7EjDAqGUE

[hporter]

David,

Will a 5x7 sheet fit the long way into the grooves if you take the rear center support out? My CL-81 doesn't have that rear center clip that is causing the issue. I am curious if I buy the reel only, if I could "adjust" the reel to be a 3 sheet proposition by moving the ends towards one another. and loading them the long way. I would be fine with the reduced capacity. I am just not sure if the sheets would stick out of the ends - or if they would fit too short for the retainer clip to work?

Thanks again for reporting your experience with this item.

Harold

[David Aimone]

Well, in theory that would work. The 5x7 sheets could be loaded all the way through the long way (there's nothing to block it halfway around), but...

There is a second spindle that the reels fit on and then the center "jobo" type spindle goes through that. So, it's a slightly wider diameter and this is what the reel ends attach to. There is also a notch in that second spindle which lines up with a notch on the reel ends. On top of that, inside the second spindle at each end, there is a metal piece that goes about one inch into the inside of each end with a matching notch to the outer plastic spindle.

174483
174484
174485
174486

[David Aimone]

I contacted the seller and asked to return them and shared the images and video. Here's the answer I received:

Thank you for you test.
And sorry for this
So please send me you PayPal account.
I will transfer to you.
And the product you can still keep it.
The problem we must solve in the future. Then we will send the parts to you.
Thanks.

[hporter]

That is great he stood behind his product.

Now you can experiment. Maybe modify the rear clip to change the flow characteristics over it?

[Fred L]

I wonder if a 5x7 sized 2509 reel with retaining wings would be better ? Also wonder if the Poilot designers considered that design as well. Hopefully they'll figure out how to eliminate the streaking and send you a beta reel ;)

I'm presuming that it was simpler to let you keep it vs paying for return shipping. That's good will to be sure on their part which is very heartening.

[David Aimone]

eBay items refunded.

[williaty]

David, did you ever get better results with a different developer or agitation scheme?

[David Aimone]

Well, the only agitation scheme I'd use it for would be constant on the Beseler roller base, and I've only done constant with Pyrocat MC. I should try another developer.

I DID successfully do two sheets only, modifying how I loaded them to minimize the impact of the clips on the circulation and that worked fairly well. This was the result (https://flic.kr/p/28eAqL9).


David, did you ever get better results with a different developer or agitation scheme?

[williaty]

Well, the only agitation scheme I'd use it for would be constant on the Beseler roller base, and I've only done constant with Pyrocat MC. I should try another developer.

I DID successfully do two sheets only, modifying how I loaded them to minimize the impact of the clips on the circulation and that worked fairly well. This was the result (https://flic.kr/p/28eAqL9).

2 sheets total, or 2 per side (4 total). 2 total is a bummer, 2 per side is sort of a bummer but if they're more secure than processing them 4 at a time in the Jobo 2830 tank, maybe it's still worth it. I just keep fearing they'll shift in the 2830 since they're barely retained by the ribs on the tank.

[David Aimone]

I'm liking the B-W King 5x7 tank, but you really can't put it on a motor base for continuous agitation...


2 sheets total, or 2 per side (4 total). 2 total is a bummer, 2 per side is sort of a bummer but if they're more secure than processing them 4 at a time in the Jobo 2830 tank, maybe it's still worth it. I just keep fearing they'll shift in the 2830 since they're barely retained by the ribs on the tank.

[Greg]

Few years ago purchased a new in box JOBO 3062 tank from a dealer here in the USA. Last year saw a JOBO tank up on eBay from a private party that was described as being a "JOBO 3062" but without any printed lettering on it. Price was 1/2 of what I paid for my OEM tank. Took a chance and bought it. Side by side the tanks are totally identical except for the printed JOBO text on one. The drum lid that came with the unlabeled tank matches my JOBO lid except for the three attachment tabs. Both lids work flawlessly on either tank. If the unlabeled tank and lid were made by a 2nd or 3rd party, well I have to say that their quality control was equal to JOBO's.

[David Aimone]

The "Poilot" tanks on eBay are fine, they are a bit thinner, wobble a bit on the motor base, and though the top doesn't leak, it doesn't feel quite as solidly attached so I'm gentle with it.


Few years ago purchased a new in box JOBO 3062 tank from a dealer here in the USA. Last year saw a JOBO tank up on eBay from a private party that was described as being a "JOBO 3062" but without any printed lettering on it. Price was 1/2 of what I paid for my OEM tank. Took a chance and bought it. Side by side the tanks are totally identical except for the printed JOBO text on one. The drum lid that came with the unlabeled tank matches my JOBO lid except for the three attachment tabs. Both lids work flawlessly on either tank. If the unlabeled tank and lid were made by a 2nd or 3rd party, well I have to say that their quality control was equal to JOBO's.

[Greg]

The "Poilot" tanks on eBay are fine, they are a bit thinner, wobble a bit on the motor base, and though the top doesn't leak, it doesn't feel quite as solidly attached so I'm gentle with it.

Thanks for the info. Just measured the walls on both tanks with a micrometer and they are essentially the same thickness. Coming to think that both tanks are JOBOs, one just was never labeled. Also just noticed that the drum lids that came with each tank... both have "03 057" embossed in the plastic.

[Duolab123]

I'm a genuine Jobo fan. I have bought most everything used. I think that much of the Chinese made copies are sold in China. Who ever is doing it is making an effort, but is falling somewhat short.
Getting out a big processor with a lift is great when you have 10 rolls of 120. I still use SS tanks and reels for a couple of rolls of black and white.
I have a CPP2 w/lift, a Duolab and a motorized Jobo Colorbase, I use them all firm time to time.