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kaif
16-Sep-2017, 12:48
I have a 90mm lens currently mounted in a flat 0 size Wista lens board, and with this I sometimes run out of vertical shift. So I have been thinking about putting it into a recessed board.

The board I currently use has the lens hole in the centre, and from what I have seen available online, most recessed Wista boards seem to have the lens hole set a fair bit below centre.

Since the shift I tend to run out of is upward, I imagine that this kind of panel could somewhat defy the purpose, since I gain some extra movement but also have to compensate more for the lens sitting lower to begin with.

Do recessed Wista 0 size lens boards with a centred hole exist quite widely, and have I just not been lucky enough to find one - or are these something rare? And do I worry about something which is not a problem in real life?

xkaes
16-Sep-2017, 14:32
I'm sure you can find recessed, centered boards. They are typically lowered to allow space for the controls on the top of the shutter. That will depend on the depth of the recess, and the width of the shutter and recessed area. So the deeper the recess, the wider the shutter and the narrower the recess, the more likely you will have something that won't work. Check it all out first!

AtlantaTerry
16-Sep-2017, 15:12
I have a 90mm lens currently mounted in a flat 0 size Wista lens board, and with this I sometimes run out of vertical shift. So I have been thinking about putting it into a recessed board.

The board I currently use has the lens hole in the centre, and from what I have seen available online, most recessed Wista boards seem to have the lens hole set a fair bit below centre.

Since the shift I tend to run out of is upward, I imagine that this kind of panel could somewhat defy the purpose, since I gain some extra movement but also have to compensate more for the lens sitting lower to begin with.

Do recessed Wista 0 size lens boards with a centred hole exist quite widely, and have I just not been lucky enough to find one - or are these something rare? And do I worry about something which is not a problem in real life?

Are your Wista lens boards the same design as used for Chamonix (Linhof Technika)? If so, I believe I saw some Technika-style center hole recessed boards on eBay yesterday when I was looking for some flat / center hole Copal #3 boards for my Chamonix (which I found for US $25).

A question:
Have you tried tipping your camera backward then tipping the front and rear standards forward until their plumb is 0 degrees vertical?
That would have the same effect as giving your lens front rise.
Just be sure you don't include part of your camera in the lower area of the photograph. (Not that I've done that, of course...)

Doremus Scudder
17-Sep-2017, 03:13
What camera are you using? Wista cameras are designed to use an off-center boards to center the lens on the film. That said, if you can use your lens on a recessed board with a centered hole, you will, as you note, be able to get more effective front rise.

The problem with mounting your 90mm in a recessed board with center hole is that you may find that you cannot get at the aperture and shutter-speed controls easily. It may be that the cocking lever will simply be to big to allow the lens to be mounted that way. FWIW, I have a 90mm Nikkor SW f/8 lens mounted in a recessed Technika-style (Gaoersi, I think) with an off-center hole. The cocking lever on the Copal 0 just barely fits and I have to nudge it past a spot of light contact every time I cock the shutter. The rest of the controls I set with the end of the cable release; a finger won't fit at all.

Best,

Doremus

kaif
17-Sep-2017, 05:32
Thank you all for your responses. The camera in question is a simple Intrepid 4x5, so it is sort-of possible to tip the camera up and re-level front and back, but unfortunately I do reach the limits of the bellows flexibility quite quickly that way.

The lens in question is a good old Schneider Angulon 90mm. Now I know that people might say that with that lens, my shift scope is very limited anyway... but for the shots in question most of the top parts of the images are sky, and so I am quite content with the fall off in resolution.

I have used this lens in a different-type 25mm recessed lens board on a different camera - and yes, this does become fiddly! I can reach the cocking lever and iris setting of the Synchro-Compur in that lens board from the front though, and am at least mildly optimistic that it should be possible in a Wista board too. Boringly, it will likely involve taking off any lens shades or larger filters adapted to the lens... but I can live with that.

Yes, I believe the Chamonix Technika boards will be the same, so will look out for this!

Thank you again for all your suggestions!

Bob Salomon
17-Sep-2017, 05:42
Thank you all for your responses. The camera in question is a simple Intrepid 4x5, so it is sort-of possible to tip the camera up and re-level front and back, but unfortunately I do reach the limits of the bellows flexibility quite quickly that way.

The lens in question is a good old Schneider Angulon 90mm. Now I know that people might say that with that lens, my shift scope is very limited anyway... but for the shots in question most of the top parts of the images are sky, and so I am quite content with the fall off in resolution.

I have used this lens in a different-type 25mm recessed lens board on a different camera - and yes, this does become fiddly! I can reach the cocking lever and iris setting of the Synchro-Compur in that lens board from the front though, and am at least mildly optimistic that it should be possible in a Wista board too. Boringly, it will likely involve taking off any lens shades or larger filters adapted to the lens... but I can live with that.

Yes, I believe the Chamonix Technika boards will be the same, so will look out for this!

Thank you again for all your suggestions!
Your shift scope is not limited, it is non existent since this lens does not cover 45 it covers 9x12cm. Put your money into a lens that covers more then 45 so you can have reasonable movements.

kaif
17-Sep-2017, 08:55
Your shift scope is not limited, it is non existent since this lens does not cover 45 it covers 9x12cm. Put your money into a lens that covers more then 45 so you can have reasonable movements.

Trouble is, I simply LIKE this lens! Some people like pin hole, I like a Schneider Angulon (amongst other lenses), others won't settle below a more recent piece of $5k glass or a rare Dallmeyer... whatever makes you happy, I would have thought!

Now some of the great reasons for an Angulon 90 and an Intrepid camera for me are that I can take those almost anywhere, not just because they are small and light weight, but also because it's not a catastrophy if I slip in that stony riverbed or get caught by the spray from that unexpected giant wave on a coastline on the Isle of Skye, while I'm staring at the ground glass... They are, in the end, replaceable! (And I hope that I'll at least be able to salvage that lens panel! :-) )

Back to the lens panel itself, another short term option would of course be to get an undrilled flat lens board and drill a hole that sits higher - but that would only just solve my problem for the series I'm doing at the moment - and an undrilled Wista board is another thing I would first have to find...

xkaes
17-Sep-2017, 09:24
Now some of the great reasons for an Angulon 90 and an Intrepid camera for me are that I can take those almost anywhere, not just because they are small and light weight, but also because it's not a catastrophy if I slip in that stony riverbed or get caught by the spray from that unexpected giant wave on a coastline on the Isle of Skye, while I'm staring at the ground glass... They are, in the end, replaceable!

I can't speak to the Angulon 90mm, but if you are happy with it, and you can get it to fit, stick with it. If it ain't broke...

But, if it won't fit, I know of one option -- and there may be others as well -- the Rodenstock Geronar-WA 90mm f8. Rodenstock lists the image circle as 170mm in a Copal #1. Four elements in four groups. Very small and light.

kaif
17-Sep-2017, 09:27
...turns out an undrilled Wista panel was actually quite easy to find on a popular auction site!

Now what would be ideal would be an undrilled recessed panel, so I could offset the hole somewhat towards the top to create better access space and more movement... but I haven't seen that yet.

kaif
17-Sep-2017, 09:38
xkaes, thank you for the suggestion, it's not a lens I'm familiar with so will look it up!

Longer-term I had been toying with a Grandagon-N 90 6.8 to partner the Angulon, for when image quality matters more than light weight, but I've probably spent enough money on lenses recently anyway (I just got a Fujinon W 125 to add to the outfit) - so there is plenty of time now to contemplate options for what might be useful next, and I do imagine the Grandagon to be a tight fit in a recessed board, quite possibly too tight if centred!

xkaes
17-Sep-2017, 10:03
Now what would be ideal would be an undrilled recessed panel, so I could offset the hole somewhat towards the top to create better access space and more movement... but I haven't seen that yet.

You might want to check out this guy. He has a LOT of stuff you would not imagine:

http://stores.ebay.com/ecbuyonline2008?_trksid=p2047675.l2563

And one way to possibly address your issue/problem, would be to get a recessed board that is just deep enough to allow infinity focus -- no point in getting one deeper than you need -- then moving the hole up as high as you need, and turning the lens upside down -- so that you have enough room in the recess for the shutter adjustments, admittedly on the bottom.

Bob Salomon
17-Sep-2017, 10:33
xkaes, thank you for the suggestion, it's not a lens I'm familiar with so will look it up!

Longer-term I had been toying with a Grandagon-N 90 6.8 to partner the Angulon, for when image quality matters more than light weight, but I've probably spent enough money on lenses recently anyway (I just got a Fujinon W 125 to add to the outfit) - so there is plenty of time now to contemplate options for what might be useful next, and I do imagine the Grandagon to be a tight fit in a recessed board, quite possibly too tight if centred!

Exactly when, at the cost of time, film and chemistry, doesn't image quality matter?

xkaes
17-Sep-2017, 12:12
Exactly when, at the cost of time, film and chemistry, doesn't image quality matter?

That's completely up to the user/photographer/artist -- at least the last time I checked.

Believe it or not, some of us lunatics like the results from pin-holes, for example. I use everything I have, from super sharp on down -- 4x5" to 8x11mm -- to suit my fancy.

169906

Or as you have said, "You should try one sometime."

169910

kaif
17-Sep-2017, 13:15
Exactly when, at the cost of time, film and chemistry, doesn't image quality matter?

Well... just as an example: I recently did a little series which involved myself standing waist-deep in the river Clyde (which is tidal) in a rubber waders suit, carrying all camera equipment above head height to the tripod, while trying to navigate the stony and slippery river bed. Your physique, bank account and love of risk might of course vary, but I myself sure did go for the cheap and light-weight gear alternatives! And that's before I contemplate places I can only reach after three hours of hill walking, with a high chance of getting soaked in the Scottish rain...

169907

But each to their own, live and let live... or, erm, photograph and let photograph :-) !

Bob Salomon
17-Sep-2017, 13:19
Well... just as an example: I recently did a little series which involved myself standing waist-deep in the river Clyde (which is tidal) in a rubber waders suit, carrying all camera equipment above head height to the tripod, while trying to navigate the stony and slippery river bed. Your physique, bank account and love of risk might of course vary, but I myself sure did go for the cheap and light-weight gear alternatives! And that's before I contemplate places I can only reach after three hours of hill walking, with a high chance of getting soaked in the Scottish rain...

169907

But each to their own, live and let live... or, erm, photograph and let photograph :-) !

That is one reason my equipment is insured.

xkaes
17-Sep-2017, 13:45
Well... just as an example: I recently did a little series which involved myself standing waist-deep in the river Clyde (which is tidal) in a rubber waders suit, carrying all camera equipment above head height to the tripod, while trying to navigate the stony and slippery river bed.

I've done my fair share of photographic risk taking -- with my gear and my life. I've been in the middle of fast flowing creeks -- well past my knees -- with pretty expensive gear. But that was the ONLY way to get the picture of the waterfall. Fortunately, my Gitzo Reporter is aluminum and dries out fine. Just about all of the beautiful, gray finish has worn off over the years -- just "battle scars". I've been WAY too close to the edges of cliffs from the Grand Canyon to Canyonlands National Park. A wicked wind -- a common event there -- would have blow me and my gear over the edge.

Some some reason, I think my foolish, autonomic reaction would be to TRY to save my gear. But somehow, I've prevailed -- but lot a few lens caps!!!

kaif
17-Sep-2017, 14:51
That is one reason my equipment is insured.

Funny enough, my equipment is usually insured, and on the one occasion when I had to make a claim, the insurance did cover my damage without problem. I myself still feel more comfortable in a situation like this, if I know that the piece of equipment in my hand is not worth half a year's income or would take a year of hunting to replace - even if it's just to stop myself from making that split-second reflex reaction to save that pressious piece of gear, and in the process of it getting myself into serious trouble.

Having said this, I very much do believe that cameras and lenses are there to be used, and so if the only way to get a certain shot the way I want it would involve taking a bit of risk with my gear, I would very likely use it.

Wow, this has all gone a fair way off from lens panels... and so, back to the Wista boards! Thank you xkaes for the link, he really has an interesting collection of stuff!

I have in the meantime found some cheap un-drilled flat Wista boards online. An yes, another option would be to get a 'normal' recessed board if I can't find an undrilled one, and modify it to end up with the hole above centre.