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View Full Version : Linhof wide angle device - what's the scoop?



Jac@stafford.net
11-Sep-2017, 15:42
I have a few cameras including MF and 4x5 using 47mm Super-Angulons f/8 & f/5.6.
The 47mm XL is new to me and particularly promising.

There are focus adapters for Linhof 4x5, but I do not know what-fits-what, and how to tell the differences.
I'd like to try one on a Super Technika V not using the rangefinder.

Any help please?

Leigh
11-Sep-2017, 16:45
What's a "focus adapter" ?
Never heard of such.

- Leigh

Jac@stafford.net
11-Sep-2017, 17:05
What's a "focus adapter" ?
Never heard of such.

- Leigh

Leigh, I have probably used the wrong term. For the Linhof it is an auxiliary lens board which is seated close to the back. It is placed on the back tracks of the rack and has its own short bellows and a dial to focus. To use it with a Technika we must drop the front bed down as far as possible.

I hope these pictures do not violate terms.

169621

I do not know if it will work with a 47mm S-A XL. Another picture but for a 65mm S-A.

169622

It is not beyond me to consider modifying the lock-down limiter for the bed to drop it almost 90 down.

Tin Can
11-Sep-2017, 17:07
I heard of it. Expensive, rare and necessary for short lenses.

I skipped Technika class and went Horseman.

I am back. LOL

Bob Salomon
11-Sep-2017, 17:11
Leigh, I have probably used the wrong term. For the Linhof it is an auxiliary lens board which is seated close to the back. It is placed on the back tracks of the rack and has its own short bellows and a dial to focus.

I hope this picture does not violate terms here. This unfortunately is view from the film side not showing the focus knob.
Photo from keh.com

169620
No, it is not a lensboard. It is a wide angle focusing adapter that takes lenses, 65mm and shorter, on special Technica 23 lens boards. Both this device and the special lens boards have been out of production for several years. To use this device it is mounted onto the 45 Technica and the front standard is left inside the body housing. Focusing is done by the knurled knob on the top front of the adapter.
It worked with lenses down to the 55mm but I am not sure if it could focus the 45 or 47 at infinity.
Today Linhof uses these wide lenses in special, dedicated helical focusing mounts.

Jac@stafford.net
11-Sep-2017, 17:30
No, it is not a lensboard. It is a wide angle focusing adapter that takes lenses, 65mm and shorter, on special Technica 23 lens boards. Both this device and the special lens boards have been out of production for several years. To use this device it is mounted onto the 45 Technica and the front standard is left inside the body housing. Focusing is done by the knurled knob on the top front of the adapter.
It worked with lenses down to the 55mm but I am not sure if it could focus the 45 or 47 at infinity.
Today Linhof uses these wide lenses in special, dedicated helical focusing mounts.

Oh, Bob, lighten up. So it is not a lens board, but in effect it is, and thank you not for your frequent reminders that certain items are no longer in stock. The used market is rich without Linhof. Your frequent reminders just tell us that Linhof is dying.

So, can you answer the original question - which model will work an a Super Technika V? ...and learn up via your inexhaustible resources whether it will work with a 47mm SA XL. I have built 4x5 cameras with helix focusing. No mystery there.

Bob Salomon
11-Sep-2017, 18:13
Oh, Bob, lighten up. So it is not a lens board, but in effect it is, and thank you not for your frequent reminders that certain items are no longer in stock. The used market is rich without Linhof. Your frequent reminders just tell us that Linhof is dying.

So, can you answer the original question - which model will work an a Super Technika V? ...and learn up via your inexhaustible resources whether it will work with a 47mm SA XL. I have built 4x5 cameras with helix focusing. No mystery there.

No, it is not a lensboard and can not function as a lensboard. It is basically the front standard of a Technica 23.
There were two versions. One that fit the Technica III 45 cameras and the other fit the Technica IV, V and Master Technica. The original version fir the IV and later was tan. The later version was black. So was the version that only fit the III.

No, it does not work with lenses shorter then 55mm.

LabRat
11-Sep-2017, 21:27
Jac, I think you are better off making another dedicated camera for the 47MM...

Me using my very old Technika III with a SA 65MM is tough enough, as the standard sits deep inside the body shell, making it difficult to access the controls, but with a custom WA camera, all of the controls would be right on the deck in front of you, and something simple like screwing in a cable release does not require a plan...

You can probably make a helical out of an old 35MM or 6X_ lens or some threaded plumbing fitting, or make some device not unlike that Linhof assy... You know the rest... ;-)

Steve K

LabRat
11-Sep-2017, 22:04
I heard of it. Expensive, rare and necessary for short lenses.

I skipped Technika class and went Horseman.

I am back. LOL

Hi Randy!!!

Good to see you were not abducted by aliens... (Or were you!?!!!)

Hope you have gotten settled and happy again...

Keep on truckin'!!!

Steve K

gary mulder
12-Sep-2017, 09:52
One thing is certain you will not be able to use a centerfilter on the 47mm xl and the wide angle device. I had a SA xl 58mm on it which I had to modify to use a centerfilter.

Dan Fromm
12-Sep-2017, 10:14
Jac, its time for a stupid and perhaps insulting question. I take it that you want to use a 47/5.6 SAXL on 4x5. Per Schneider, the lens' flange-focal distance is 59.1 mm and it covers around 165 mm. I also take it that your Super Technika V is a 4x5er.

I sort of see the problem you're dealing with. Bed has to be dropped to be out of the frame, lens probably makes infinity inside the box, focusing will be a real pain.

If you can give up all movements but front rise, why not get a 4x5 Crown Graphic? Minimum extension 52.4 mm, the bed drops and the inner bed rails move and are linked to the outer rails so focusing a lens that makes infinity inside the box is easy.

Jac@stafford.net
12-Sep-2017, 10:50
Jac, I think you are better off making another dedicated camera for the 47MM...

You are right, Steve. I'm going to modify the body of one of the original 4x54s (http://www.digoliardi.net/super-wide-4x5-1.jpg) I've made. That one uses an earlier S-A 47mm f/5.6. All I have to do is drill a new lens board and fix the flange distance using shims. I already have a focusing helical (not the one pictured). No movements, but I don't use them often.

Jac@stafford.net
12-Sep-2017, 10:54
[...]If you can give up all movements but front rise, why not get a 4x5 Crown Graphic? Minimum extension 52.4 mm, the bed drops and the inner bed rails move and are linked to the outer rails so focusing a lens that makes infinity inside the box is easy.

I gave up the Linhof idea after Bob's post. Indeed, it's a stupid idea to use the Super Technika. I have a Graphic, but have yet to seriously consider it. I'll get it out for a good look today.

Jim Andrada
12-Sep-2017, 12:10
I have one of the Linhof WA units - it works but finding the right 2 x 3 lens board to fit it is a challenge. and twiddling the bellows adjuster with the whole thing inside the camera body while you stand behind the camera and look at the GG is not the easiest thing to do unless you have double jointed elbows and wrists. I sort of put it in the "nice try" category, and use my Crown Graphic with the coupled interior tracks.

David A. Goldfarb
12-Sep-2017, 12:24
I use a 47mm S-A XL on my Tech V with a Chinese-made lensboard and built-in helical. I'm sure there are much fancier helicals with better finish and smoother focusing mechanisms, but the helical I have works properly, seems properly aligned to the extent that I can focus with my own eyes and a loupe, and wasn't extraordinarily costly (around $150 in 2010). It even has a custom engraved focus scale, though it depends on manually focusing the standard to infinity using a loupe on the groundglass first, since there is no room for infinity stops on the inner rails of a Technika. It's not so easy to read the scale inside the box anyway, so I don't really use it.

169646

There is no need to modify the camera. Dropping the bed two stops works fine for horizontals. Depending on where the lens is, it might clip for verticals, but you can also just turn the camera 90 degrees.

The Wideangle Focusing Device is good for 55mm and 65mm lenses (or thereabouts). Lenses in the 72-75mm range can just use a recessed lensboard without the extra device.

Jac@stafford.net
12-Sep-2017, 13:51
I use a 47mm S-A XL on my Tech V with a Chinese-made lensboard and built-in helical. I'm sure there are much fancier helicals with better finish and smoother focusing mechanisms, but the helical I have works properly, seems properly aligned [...]

Now that is interesting, David! Thank you. The helical you have appears to be the one I am using. I also have a few proper Linhof 4x5 lens boards. Still, I think I will stay with my home made super-wide 4x5 cameras. Funny, but I made the cameras decades before I could afford the Linhof ST.

By the way, the lube in that helical is some kind of silicone which is terrible in cold weather, and it will not hurt to dilute it a bit with acetone, even WD-40. Squirt a tiny bit, exercise the helical, put it aside overnight. Worked for me. But of course you live in the tropics - no need. :)

Thanks again, David.

Oh, I collect camera scrap and parts on the cheap. I put a different one together for the 47mm S-A (http://www.digoliardi.net/veriwide-4x5/3-front-three-quarter-flapsopen.jpg). The back is a very unusual Graflex 4x5 back. I have to measure, but I think I might be able to change this mount to the XL.

Neal Chaves
12-Sep-2017, 14:18
I had one of those wide-angle focus devices when I used Linhof a number of years ago that I used with a 58mm Grandagon. Then after looking at the situation (Yogi Berrra said "It's amazing what you can see sometimes if you just look"), I discovered that the camera, a Master Technika, could RF focus with a 58 cam that I cut down from a 75mm blank. I made a deeply recessed lens board from a factory board. The lens was in a OO Compur so there was plenty of room. In use, with the bed dropped, it sat pretty far back on the retracted track but worked just fine and was great to use hand-held for architecture with a 20mm 35mm Russian finder. The 58 Grandagon just clipped the corners of a 4X5 negative.

Neal Chaves
12-Sep-2017, 14:23
I use a 47mm S-A XL on my Tech V with a Chinese-made lensboard and built-in helical. I'm sure there are much fancier helicals with better finish and smoother focusing mechanisms, but the helical I have works properly, seems properly aligned to the extent that I can focus with my own eyes and a loupe, and wasn't extraordinarily costly (around $150 in 2010). It even has a custom engraved focus scale, though it depends on manually focusing the standard to infinity using a loupe on the groundglass first, since there is no room for infinity stops on the inner rails of a Technika. It's not so easy to read the scale inside the box anyway, so I don't really use it.

Great solution. Excellent for 4X5 Crown Graphics as well. Thanks!

169646

There is no need to modify the camera. Dropping the bed two stops works fine for horizontals. Depending on where the lens is, it might clip for verticals, but you can also just turn the camera 90 degrees.

The Wideangle Focusing Device is good for 55mm and 65mm lenses (or thereabouts). Lenses in the 72-75mm range can just use a recessed lensboard without the extra device.

Jac@stafford.net
12-Sep-2017, 14:26
[...] I discovered that the camera, a Master Technika, could RF focus with a 58 cam that I cut down from a 75mm blank. [...]

Wow! I am not smart enough to even imagine how one would properly modify a focusing cam. Any more tips for us? Is it something as simple as following an other cam as a template? IOW, linear?

.

David A. Goldfarb
12-Sep-2017, 15:59
Oh, I collect camera scrap and parts on the cheap. I put a different one together for the 47mm S-A (http://www.digoliardi.net/veriwide-4x5/3-front-three-quarter-flapsopen.jpg). The back is a very unusual Graflex 4x5 back. I have to measure, but I think I might be able to change this mount to the XL.

Nice looking Veriwide adaptation! I was considering doing such a thing with spare Sinar parts, but this situation with the 47 S-A XL and the helical fell into place sooner, so the Sinar odds n ends are still in the drawer.

LabRat
12-Sep-2017, 17:08
Good that you are using a dedicated custom camera!!! Will make it MUCH easier to use...

But if you consider adding a completely drop bed feature on the Linhof in the future, what worked on my old style Tech III was on the top of the bed support struts is the tip that prevents the bed from falling completely, but with my model, it only required siight re-rounding the front of the tip (about a mm) with a file, where it would just slip through the rivet & pin assy if you pushed the strut inwards (against the outward spring pressure), and it slides out, but for normal bed opening, the outward spring pressure would still stop the bed from falling as there is still most all of the stop intact... The bit that is filed was the tiny little corner tip point very slightly rounded, top forward end of stop... I don't know if this will work with later models, but drop the bed all the way down, and see what is stopping it, and see if there is just a little tip there in the way... Fairly easy mod... (Remove RF cam before use, or get an old, short 90mm cam and move focusing track forward out of the way so the cam is free of it before dropping bed completely to avoid damage...)

If you try this, only remove one strut at a time, to maintain alignment of the bed while doing this...

Steve K

Jac@stafford.net
12-Sep-2017, 17:33
Nice looking Veriwide adaptation! I was considering doing such a thing with spare Sinar parts, but this situation with the 47 S-A XL and the helical fell into place sooner, so the Sinar odds n ends are still in the drawer.

I do have a Sinar Alpina that appears capable of using the 47mm S-A XL to make a 'handy cam', but I not like monorails.

Neal Chaves
12-Sep-2017, 18:10
Wow! I am not smart enough to even imagine how one would properly modify a focusing cam. Any more tips for us? Is it something as simple as following an other cam as a template? IOW, linear?

If you search my old posts, I have discussed cutting cams for Linhofs and TRF Graphics. My advice now, is to stay away from Linhof and save your money for lenses, film, travel, models, etc.

.

Cor
13-Sep-2017, 00:53
Just throw in this, although it's about a 65mm SA..I once had a 65 SA (well still have it actually) on a "Schneckengang (sp?)" or a helical focussing mount on a Linhof board. I used it on my Tech III by placing it on the inner rail, drop the bed to max, and extend this weird technical back about 1 cm backwards (I had a piece of plastic, 1cm square with me which I used as a spacer). I could than focus with the helical quite easily (have long thin fingers though)..it was a bit cumbersome to set up, but it worked..

The 65 SA now lives on a recessed lens board on my Linhof Color..

Best,

Cor

Corran
13-Sep-2017, 20:32
Jac,

I have a wide-angle focus device (thingy, board, whatever you want to call it). It works pretty well with my 58mm XL. However, because of where the focus adapter needs to be placed on the bed, the 47mm XL doesn't work. I have used the 47mm XL on my Linhof MT simply on a flat, offset board and found a good hyperfocal point inside the box and the bed dropped all the way. It's a pain but it does work...kind of.

I will note here as well that if I use a center filter on the 58mm XL, it restricts the extension due to impacting the focus knob.

Also, it's a pain in the butt to find the proper mini Linhof boards to fit the lens. A lot of the Copal 0 boards I found were not properly offset. They seem to have made a lot of variants for different lens types over the years.

The Linhof is definitely not a good ultra wide angle platform (wider than 72-90mm). I've also ran into issues with large 100mm GND filters even on normal wide angles due to impacting the focus rails.

The 47mm XL is definitely going to live on my new Mercury camera going forward. I hadn't used it in a long time due to so many problems with camera compatibility. It only really worked well on my Toyo GII but I'm not lugging that thing around.

Mark Sampson
14-Sep-2017, 07:54
One has to give Linhof credit for trying to make such a device, and for it being as successful as it is. The Technika design goes back to what, the early 1960s? And even in the late 1980s the widest lens, available new, that covered 4x5 was a 65mm. So if it doesn't work with a much shorter lens, oh well, nice try anyway. No surprise that photographers have found solutions that work better.
Kind of reminds me of my Visoflex II that turns a Leica rangefinder into an SLR- I call that 'an elegant kludge'. Beautifully made, and it works, sort of, for a few purposes, but has significant drawbacks too.

Jac@stafford.net
14-Sep-2017, 08:43
One has to give Linhof credit for trying to make such a device, and for it being as successful as it is. The Technika design goes back to what, the early 1960s?

If we concentrate on the origins of the Super Technika, it is more likely 1946 when the rangefinder became an option.

Bob Salomon
14-Sep-2017, 11:24
One has to give Linhof credit for trying to make such a device, and for it being as successful as it is. The Technika design goes back to what, the early 1960s? And even in the late 1980s the widest lens, available new, that covered 4x5 was a 65mm. So if it doesn't work with a much shorter lens, oh well, nice try anyway. No surprise that photographers have found solutions that work better.
Kind of reminds me of my Visoflex II that turns a Leica rangefinder into an SLR- I call that 'an elegant kludge'. Beautifully made, and it works, sort of, for a few purposes, but has significant drawbacks too.

The Technica goes back to prior to WW II. The war time Technica Medzin was the direct descendant of the post WW II models.

And your Visoflex was actually made by Novoflex. They also made the prism finders for Rollei and Hasselblad as well as the bellows for most European 35mm and 21/4 SLR cameras.

Drew Bedo
16-Sep-2017, 05:32
Least expensive, but useful.. . .

I was having a problem rounding up my things when shooting outdoors. Lens caps , loup etc. Lost one or two not-cheap-to-replace items in the tall grass through inattention when packing up.

Finally fixed that by gwetting a vbatch of Crown Royal bags off of The-Bay for <$1.00 each. If there was an empty bag left over whenever I thought it was time to close the bag, I knew that something was still out and had to be looked for.

I still use the CR bags, but the lenses now get packed into Photobackpacker boxers. In practice the principle is the same.

Honkytonky
14-Sep-2018, 01:56
An old thread, but still a big topic for many users of a Technika with an ultra-wide-angle lens.
There is always confusing information on this topic.

There were several versions. Just for the 4x5" versions of the Technika there were already at least four.
For Technika II I am not sure if there existed something like that.

For Technika III I'm sure. It had on the rear the connection for rectangular boards without recesses and with smooth edges:
http://www.picfront.org/d/9OtD
It DOES (!) take recessed boards, if you use the right type.

From Technika IV to today (the boards with recesses and sloping corners), the rear connection was always identical.
There were three versions.
The older version takes on the front only the flat smooth rectangular boards (81x74mm) of the old Technika 6.5 x 9 cm:
http://www.picfront.org/d/9OtE
http://www.picfront.org/d/9OtF
http://www.picfront.org/d/9OtG
It also DOES (!) take recessed boards, if you use the right type.

The newer and latest version also accepts the modern boards (also 81x74mm) of the 6.5 x 9 cm Technika but with sloping corners and recesses:
http://www.picfront.org/d/9OtH
http://www.picfront.org/d/9OtI
http://www.picfront.org/d/9OtJ
As the others it also DOES (!) take recessed boards, if you use the right type.

There was another version without the ability to attach boards to it.
It only had a bore for Compur #00 shutters.
The wide-angle lens was fixed directly to it with the retaining ring:
http://www.picfront.org/d/9OtK
http://www.picfront.org/d/9OtL

A very similar version existed for the Super Technika IV - Baby Technika - for the format 6.5 x 9 cm. But on the rear it had the connection for small boards (81x74mm).
(sorry, no picture)

For 5x7" also existed several versions.
This one is the last version for standard 4x5" Technika IV V Master boards (96x98mm):
http://www.picfront.org/d/9OtM
http://www.picfront.org/d/9OtN
http://www.picfront.org/d/9OtO
Of course, this 5x7" device accepts recessed boards.

There might be a version for the old 4x5" Technika flat boards (sorry, no picture).
In the last version of the 5x7" Super Technika V, the wide-angle focusing device was already integrated in the camera body.

So what? What do you need something like that for?

Anyone who ever wanted to use a super wide-angle lens on a Technika, will not ask this question.
Such lenses (these are no retrofocus designs!) have to be pushed very close to the film plane if they are to be focused on infinity. Almost right up into the camera body.

In this position, however, the bottom must be folded down so that it does not appear on the picture.
So you can not focus the lens with the built-in bottom distance adjustment, anymore.

To focus these lenses, the front standard is pushed almost to the parking position, down to the parking rail. Now, instead of the lens, the wide-angle focusing device is used. In front of it comes the super wide-angle lens. However, the lens has yet to be installed in a correspondingly smaller board, which connects it with the wide-angle focusing device.

Hmm... sounds complicating, but with the help of the large adjusting screw you can now focus very comfortably.
However, only on the ground glass. There is no possibility for coupling with the optical rangefinder of the camera.

These devices were very expensive, so at the end the design was changed and helicoids were used instead - until today.
This has the disadvantage that if one fiddles around the lens for focusing, often accidentally triggers the shutter or disadjusts the aperture or shutter speed.