How do you sell/finance your personal work?

[Daniel Grenier]

I'm curious. So here's a broad question on the financial aspect of personal LF work.

Outside the worlds of gallery/artist relationships, grants, website, or ebay, what other creative means have some of you taken to finance your personal projects and work?

I'd be glad to hear your successes and failures. Thanks.

[John Cook]

After decades of commercial photography commissioned by Harvard MBA’s who didn’t know “sh*t from Shinola” about my craft, I am sick to death of being told what to shoot, when to shoot, how to shoot and how much to charge.

Even lay people today have no idea how much photographic materials cost nor how much handwork is involved. A PhD friend told me just the other day how he was “ripped off” by a local portrait studio who had made a b&w copy negative and 11x14 fibre print of an old photograph of his circa 1900 farmhouse (now worth a cool half million). The bandit had charged him $40. Imagine that?

The minute I accept money from anyone, no matter how well-meaning, I open myself up to this abuse. And I’m not going to take it any more.

So I finance my retirement portfolio with my Visa card.

In another 20 years Medicaid will put me in a nursing home and the State will seize the house and all my assets to recover the cost. I’ll let the State and maxed-out Visa hash it out who gets what after I’m gone.

Am I sounding like a grumpy old man? ;0)

[Kirk Gittings]

Commercial work primarily, teaching workshops and at universities, commissions, grants, print sales, stock sales, book royalties, writing magazine articles etc. No tricks just hard work. Its all in the mix, the volume and the years of putting these little pieces together into a whole. Commercially, I am fortunate to not have work for a__holes. I have enough work and rep that I can be very picky. It is all a huge pain sometimes but I am very thankful and I wouldn't trade it for anything.

[Armin Seeholzer]

Hi Daniel

I worked 3 years as a commercial aerial photog for a swiss company and worked for a architectural mag and still do many weddings and portraits wich is my main income for my free work.
But my real job is not photography I'm a stage manager, but this makes it easy only do work wich I like to do and no young art director is telling me what I should shoot and how.
I'm really happy as it is. In the todays world working as a commercial photog gives you very soon a heart attack, because everything has to be finished bevore they even really know what they will shoot! It is not my pair of shoes!

[adrian tyler]

i get most of my funding from my work as a graphic designer/ art director, but i must admit that i misuse my position to cream off interesting commercial photo projects, but unfortunatly i usually end up loosing money on the interesting photo assignments. what i mean is that photography is expensive and building an personal body of personal work i a huge financial commitment, outwith the gallery world it'll be difficult to make it add up. i mean many many photographers had there best work produced and were still financially unstable, kertesz, evans, sander come to mind.

but i think i'd rather loose money investing in my personal projects than say in worldcom... some advice would be, cheaper b/w and devoloping/printing yourself, if you are in the unfortunate position like me that it's colour you use then scan the film and make inkjet work prints edit them for a long time, only produce when you are sure that you have a great body of work or project. it takes years, so marry someone sympathetic to the arts!

adrian

[Ben Calwell]

I finance my photo hobby right out of my wallet. I'm strictly an amateur. I think I've sold one print in 20-plus years of large format work.

[John Berry ( Roadkill )]

I look in my pocket, if I have money, I buy supplies. I don't sell my prints. It's my hobby (addiction). As a disabled vet I can't make an income from it anyway. Visa card took as good hit setting up the 8X10 kit. At least I won't have to upgrade the dorff every 3-5 years. I use photography as a stress reducer, not inducer. Galleries seem to want a series and I've never made more than 3 prints of anything I've ever done. I just got word that out of 1350 entries in a vetrans competition, I won 1st place. My first ever, but then again I've never entered anything for 35 yrs. I get an all expense paid trip to Denver to the national show and that's compensation enough for me. I'm sorry the brag is a little off topic, but this is the crowd that I want to share my excitement with.

[David A. Goldfarb]

I've got a pretty decent day job, don't need to own a car, not too interested in the newest gear. It's a significant expense, but not excessive, compared to other things people spend money on.

[Scott Davis]

Entirely self-financed. I do sell work, but with sufficient infrequency that I can't rely on sales to float the hobby. The day job pays well enough that I can keep myself in house, darkroom, and camera toys without having to depend on the hobby for an income. I am working on making the transition though, as I'm getting bored beyond belief with my day job (computer geek for the military-industrial complex). I hope to have my photo tour business up and running full-time within the next two years. We're LF-friendly, so give me a look-see on the web (apologies for the shameless self-promo).

[M Brian Mills]

I, like many others here, have a day job that allows me time to work on photography. I taught myself how to program software and how to use a camera. Writing software allows me time and money to photograph and create prints as I wish. I have been fortunate enough to sell a few prints a year through small shows, but most of my sales come from people who have purchased a print and their friends see it and want similar work. Word of mouth.

Lots and lots of work sits in portfolios hidden behind bookcases and in closets around the house. Small work goes to family and friends as gifts (not buying specific gifts saves me considerable amounts of money).

The credit card helps out a lot and I have a heirarchy to expenditures:

Photography supplies/gear

Books (mostly writings about wilderness)

Gasoline (to get me out of the city)

House payment

and if any money is left over...I buy food

[David Luttmann]

Hey Daniel.

I fund the pleasures with Wedding, Portrait, and home interior shots along with printing services for a bunch of other local pros. We've been lucky and the mortgage was paid out a few years back.....but now the kids schools fees and hobbies seem to be what our mortagge payments were. I guess you can't win;-)

Best of luck.

[Eric Leppanen]

I'm strictly an amateur, I love being able to shoot what I want when I want to, without a gallery rep or other folks egging me on to keep producing a revenue flow of work.

I view my photography equipment as part of my financial investments (a "commodity collectible" asset class, I believe it is called). They say you should always keep at least six months of wages saved at a local bank in case of a financial rainy day, etc., so I view my photo gear as part of this savings. If I need to cash it out it usually takes me 2-3 weeks to receive payment via Ebay sale(s), which is fairly quick liquidity. Since savings accounts yield low interest anyway, I get a much higher return using my money in the form of photo gear, rather than having it sit in a bank doing virtually nothing.

This is all possible, of course, because good quality used LF gear holds it value over time. This would never be possible with digital equipment.

[Christopher Perez]

I used to work as a B&W print tech in Hollywood, CA back in the day. We did special projects that paid extra for gallery showing from various photographers.

I quickly realized this was fine for me, but if I ever got married I'd be out of $$$'s in no time. So I returned to school and started working in engineering during the Ray-gun military build-up.

I continue to do small photo jobs from time to time. But 99% of what I do is for myself, paid out of pocket. I have a great day job and more camera toys than the gods should ever allow. Photography keeps me happy and entertained.

[Joseph O'Neil]

I used to do custom printing, B&W, locally. Developing too. Got tired of explaining to to people "look, when you shot Tech Pah, a film normally rated at 25 ASA, metered instead at 400 ASA, and then forget to tell me that, it's not my fault your negatives are all washed out and too thin."

I sell telescoeps & other optical supplies over the internet, mostly mail order. This helps finance some, but not all of my shooting. The rest comes out of my pocket. Very few sales, and the few "sales" i have had are usually outright donations to churches, libraries, archvies. Although that later one I may have ot re-think - even when you donate archivally processed B&W prints of a heritage building slated to be torn down to a local archives, you still have to fill out all this leagalese paperwork, release of liability, confirmation of coyright, etc, etc, etc. Yeah I know, they have to cover thier butts, but still, it turns you off the whole process. No good deed ever goes unpunished, and all that stuff.

The bottom line is, regardless of what kind of camera you have, large format, medium format, 35mm or the latest and greated offering in digitgal backed up by $100,000 is state of the art printing gear, the reality is, a "nekkid" girl with a web cam will problaly make more money in an hour than any of us will in a lifetime. :(

So go do your own thing. 5 minutes after you are dead, you'll be reconized as a great artist, and 5 minutes after your kids sell off all rights to your negatives and print images, your work will fetch a fortune.

:)
joe

[Daniel Grenier]

Just came up for air from the darkroom. ....been there all day.

Great replies folks. It is obvious that one's personal work is, by and large, financed by means other than by the very work itself. At least, for most good folks in this forum.

This the case with me too as my industrial photography "job" finances the personal work (which, BTW, is at a crawl due to that oh-so-time-consuming "job"). And that is exactly what I want to find a cure for (so to speak) as I plan to retire from that job soon (had enough!).

Still looking, then, for that creative way of self-financing that personal work! (what about a webcam and some "nekkid" ole fart, Joe? Would that work? ;-)

Back in the darkroom now.

Thanks all.

[QT Luong]

I sell stock and prints through my website. Not particularly creative, until you try to make your living out of it.
I have a relatively innovative "computer wallpaper subscription" service, but it accounts for only 1/6 of the revenue.

[Scott Fleming]

I'm simi retired. We have a 110 acre exotic deer ranch in Texas and now that I'm living the life of Reily (my normal workweek is down to under 50 hours) I spend all my free time on photogrphy. As you all mostly know I've been in the experimentation phase for about three years. I'm truly content with my Toyo 125VX but need more lenses. About a year ago I started assembling my portfolio and now have about 20 marketable images. Three or four of which I am quite proud.

The wife kept bitching about all the $ I was spending so I took up tractor work on the side doing odd jobs and 'farm' work for neighbors. I spend several thousand a year of my mad money on photography ... the rest on cigars. I've dropped about $3k just on prints and framing this past 12 months or so. About a third of that spent on prints ended up in the round file.

I'm about at the end of my rope on the side job as my old joints are really tired of pushing those peddles. So I'm contemplating making the rounds of art/craft shows to try and raise some cash for more lenses and to get me off the tractor. Need to upgrade my portfolio though and standardize my product line. Also gotta buy some of those nice fabric covered 'cubicle dividers' to take to the shows.

I fantasize about opening my own gallery/studio one day. I'm in a tourist area and three galleries have opened or are about to in the local town just this year. Wife will fight me to the bitter end on this and it WILL be the bitter end if it comes to that. Very little interests me in this FUed world these days other than photography. Hopefully the Lord will grant me 20 more years and I will actually get good at it.

[paulr]

my answer is a work in progress. i used to be happy working full time as a graphic designer and doing photo on the side. now i'm sick of being a hobyist with a dayjob, so i'm working as little as possible and devoting as many resources as possible to art. of course, this means that there are fewer resources ...

i plan to use some of the extra time doing what i've never enjoyed: hustling. for me this means maintaining relationships with curators and dealers and collectors, getting work out there more, and in general acting more like a professional artist (also known as "faking it 'til you make it." i also plan to pursue some of the money out there that's waiting ot be asked for: grants, artist's residencies, etc.

but i've definitely decided i have to stop acting like a slacker if the world is going to take me seriously. I met a collector at a friend's opening last month, and he asked me for my card. when i told him i didn't have one, he lectured me for the next half hour on how irresponsible that is. he was right! i now have a card. and stationery, and a new website in progresss, all of it with a consistent design that says "i'm not a hack."

this isn't a success story, but it's the beginnings of a plan.

[Jim Galli]

I've used Ebay to build the photographic system that I plan to enjoy the rest of my life.
for all practical purposes, mission almost complete. I've built a 16X24 foot studio and darkroom that is yet unfinished but shows much promise. I've got cameras and lenses out the kazoo. Need to get the mess cleaned up and organized and get that darkroom finished! I pay my hobby way by buying high and selling low but making it up in volume. Kidding hopefully. Typically I'll buy a giant outfit that some studio is selling, keep a couple of choice pieces for myself, and sell the rest individually hopefully for some small profit or at least break even. Yes, it's a lot of work and headache and I look forward to leveling off here shortly but it has provided a great means to an end for an ordinary guy that's just making wages. The rule at my house has always been that the hobby will pay it's own way. I currently own about 30 LF cameras from 4X5 to 12X20 and well over 100 lenses. Some day the smoke will clear and I'll get those numbers down to my lifetime keeper system. Someone will point out that I'm a techy that doesn't have a clue about what to make a photo of and never will. Not my worry. Just because you own a bunch of stuff doesn't have to relegate you to collector non producer status. I've still been able to be incredibly prolific as far as making pictures. I feel I haven't hardly scratched the surface yet.

[Raymond Bleesz]

Daniel,

How does one sell/finance one's work, the core of your question. For me, it's been a rough road to hoe since I commenced my photographic goal commencing in 1975/6. I say again "goal".

Not being able to break into the "teaching of photo at the collegiate level" although I was a a very good teacher at the high school level (History--photo as an ellective) and not being interested in commercial photo work which I did sporatically, I have had to rely on intermittant sales of my prints------as a ski photographer, sports fashion photogapher, local & state historical society documentation..

Get a "real Job" has always been on my ass--------I had one at one time, a real honest photo job as an in house photog for a real estate venture entrepeneur here in Denver which took me to Atlanta, Newport Beach, Colo Springs. I had "it" in the palm of my hands, on a fast train. I went skiing one day & got fired, so I became a ski photographer, selling powder shots & documentation etc for Loveland Ski area. This led me to do gratis work for the USA Handicap Ski Team & led up to the World Championships for the Disabled in Leysin, Swiss, 1982.

Still facing "get a real job" from my former wife, I got involved in my own retail clothing boutique business which allowed me to actually have wall space & some left over money for film/camera, etc. The boutique allowed me to display my own personal work which was & still is "traditional, straight, bw documentation" in the classical historical sense.

Jump ahead 20 years--------With a marriage of 20 years over, & relocating elsewhere in the Colorado mountains with a new wife, I am still a specialty habadasher with wall space & selling my own work ( I do my own commercial ad work for my boutique in the local paper)-----still in the academic classical historical sense.

I'm at that age now when I might be able to capitalize on my "get a real job" business in the next 5 to 10 years, a specailty boutique, cash in, retire and persue my life time goal, that being a full time photographer.

I guess the lesson learned is: survive, shoot & believe in yourself. ( I have also become aware over the years that I do not have to live with "burn out"---since photo is still my ellusive mistress & I have the value of believing that photography is a life value.) (if all of this makes sense)!!!! Being of Alsacian parents, I suppose a dose of sttuborness, helps!!!!!!!

May this help you & perhaps others ,strive forwards!!!!!!!!!!!

Raymond A. Bleesz
Histographer/fine art phtogapher
in the Greater Vail Valley, Colo.

[Bill_1856]

VISA and a Social Security check once a month.

[Wayne]

I've financed my gear piecemeal over 20 years. Spent several years trying to make a go of it professionally and found out a) I'm a lousy salesman because I hate selling myself, and b) Ilfochrome is too damned expensive for someone who is a lousy salesman. To answer your question, some of the deductions I took over the 3 years I called myself a "pro" were significant, the money came from my other business (which actually made money!), and that helped "creatively finance" some of what I now have. Turning pro is a great way to turn expenses you have anyway into deductions, as long as you have the proof of business effort to back them up.

[william_3670]

John Berry, congratulations sir, well done. Thankyou and welcome home.

[paulr]

"Turning pro is a great way to turn expenses you have anyway into deductions, as long as you have the proof of business effort to back them up."

having a tax accountant who's experienced with artists and art professionals can help. I was introduced to mine by a designer friend and he had a lot of helpful advice that's saved me a bunch of money (and possibly trouble).

[Larry Smith]

I used to do weddings to finance my photography. I did one for a friend back in the seventys for my cost $49. It was all 8x10 proofs in a wedding album and gave them the negs. He had a fit over the price. I never have shot another wedding since and will work a second job painting houses or mowing grass. I don't need the abuse to enjoy shooting 35mm, 2 1/4, or 4x5.

[Ralph Barker]

My mother (Ma Barker) taught all of us kids to rob banks. Reasonably quick and easy, as long as you don't get caught. ;-)

[Paul Coppin]

A bit of an inheritance allowed me to run amok on Ebay for a bit, acquiring a quite a nice collection of hardware that otherwise would not had been available to me at anything resembling affordable pricing. Nature has been cruel - I am an intellectually bi-polar gearhead with a strong sensibility for the graphic arts, left handed, tangential as hell. I play too much with the hardware and not enough with the process, so, mostly the day job pays for it all; occasionally I score on a shoot, but mostly its all for self-satisfaction.
Presently I don't have a wet lab (but do have the gear), although the bathroom does duty as required, and the digital dry lab is coming along nicely. Most recently, the cash has gone to building parallelism with the digital world, the last upgrade needing to be a better printer.
I will never likely finance my retirement with notoriety, fame and/or cash, but will probably leave somebody the makings of a heck of a studio...:)

[paulr]

"My mother (Ma Barker) taught all of us kids to rob banks. Reasonably quick and easy, as long as you don't get caught. ;-)"

you're winking, but i thought about this. did some research, though, and the prospects look grim. did you know that the average bank robber only gets $2000? part of the problem is that it is quick and easy, so it's tempting to do it again and again (that 2 grand only goes so far). pretty soon you have an M.O., and then it's just a matter of time before those humorless federal agents have you in a cage. not that a day job is much different.

[Craig Wactor]

I teach photography, and sell a couple prints, but mostly it comes out of my teaching salary.