Don Worth...film developer?

[Bobby Sandstrom]

Hello everyone:

I just came back from Carmel where I stopped in at the Photography West Gallery. I looked over the soon to be released book of works by Don Worth. I was completely blown away with the quality of work this man produced. His images had a glow like no others I've seen.

My question, and I realize there's more to making a great image than the tools you use, does anyone know what film developer he used?

Thanks for your help.

[Henry Friedman]

Your real question is: How can one make images like Don Worth's?, and you've answered it for yourself. It doen't matter what developer he used.

[Michael Veit]

That's why it's rarely worth asking about any photographer's technique -- the immediate assumption is that you want to copy his work. What's wrong with wanting to know how someone achieves some effect? If a newbie comes on here asking how to get straight verticals, does that mean he's subsequently going to use rise on every shot?

I'm really amazed by the ever narrowing range of topics one can hope to bring up here without getting snotty, unhelpful replies. Who needs it?

[Bobby Sandstrom]

Henry, I would like to take the time to personally thank you for telling me what I really wanted. Maybe you can help me figure something out. ( if you wouldn't mind) The images I saw were of plants and flowers. At this point in my life, I have absolutely no desire to shoot such things. So, how do you propose I make images like his? I'd really appreciate any helpful suggestions ( other than use the same developer of course... I already figured that one out myself).

[Bobby Sandstrom]

Oops, and I forgot to mention I've been diligently studying his use of light, contrast, tonal composition as well as the way he uses texture, line and form...

[Bobby Sandstrom]

Oh henry, one other aside... I was cooking a meal the other night for some guests and funny thing happened. I yelled, "Bam" when I threw in the spices. Later, when my guests arrived, one told me my cooking tasted remarkably similar to Emeril's?! Sonovagun! ( and no, she didn't hear me yell Bam)

[Eric Biggerstaff]

It is great that you saw some work by Don Worth. He is a great photographer and was, of course, Ansel Adams assistant inthe 50's. I will do some digging for you and try to find out a bit more information.

[Eric Biggerstaff]

Bobby,

By the way, your message kind of sounded like Don was no longer with us. He is and is still producing beautiful work, contact the gallery and see if they will provide you some contact information. If so, drop him a note and ask him. I have spoken to Don a few times and he is a very nice man.

Have a great one.

[John Berry ( Roadkill )]

If I could make prints like Brett, or Edward I'd be proud to plagerize(sp) the hell out of them.

[Merg Ross]

Bobby,

For his early 4x5 work Don used Verichrome Pan and Pan-X developed in ABC Pyro. He printed on Varigam and Velour Black developed in Dektol. Of the aforementioned the only survivors are ABC Pyro and Dektol.

For the record, Don is 81 and I believe still resides in Mill Valley, CA.

[steve simmons]

This is the type of question that is all to often asked. There is always the search for the golden formula. It is the same as asking how long should I develop my film in X or Y, or what is the best film, or what EI should I use, etc.

I am sure that over the years Mr. Worth has used a variety of developers. None of them were the magic formula.

If you want to do work the quality of Worth or other masters you have to do a lot of hard work. You have to do your own film speed tests and your own dev. time tests. You should stay with the same film, film developer and paper for a long enough time to learn how they work. Joining the film of the month club, or the developer of the month club won't help. Also, go to exhibits and see how much a good black and white print can glow.

Then devote yourself to the craft for many years. Mr. Worth has been working at this for 40+ years.

steve simmons

[Michael Veit]

Sorry, Steve, but I find that silly. Nothing wrong with asking what tools went into some kind of work -- even getting the answer won't tell you how to use them. That's where the hard work comes in.

I was just marveling at some of the multi-exposure work you've done in the "samples" section of your View Camera book. Amazing stuff. But knowing that several exposures were necessary at different times of day or under different lighting conditions didn't hand me any kind of "magic bullet" at all. I'd still need your kind of hard work and experience to get comparable results.

[Mark Sawyer]

I suspect that whatever developer he used on a particular negative, you wouldn't be hard-pressed to find ten thousand embarrassingly bad negatives made by other photographers, and probably a few by Mr. Worth, using the same developer.

(But I just know I could play guitar like John Hiatt, if I could only find out what strings he uses...)

[steve simmons]

Michael,

I just find a lot of questions in these groups about what is the best film, how long should I develop my film, what EI should I use, etc. when I believe that people need to do their own testing. I also find people asking these questions just before they go on a trip.

steve simmons

[Wayne]

I am going to do something I rarely do -agree with Steve. While he's right, its still a perfectly legit question, and his is only one of many legit answers. Well it isnt really an answer, but a legit comment. Still, most people have to find out for themselves that even after they copy all the techniques of the Masters, they still arent one. Who here hasnt tried it? Thats how we find out that technique is a great ingredient but it sure isnt a meal.

[Bobby Sandstrom]

I find it extremely frustrating to have to explain myself to people who put words in my mouth and assume they know my work ethic. I asked a simple question. If you don't know the answer, keep your thoughts to yourself. Otherwise you risk sounding like a fool.

Here's what I didn't ask.

1) How can I make images like Don Worth's?
2) Should I stay with the same film/developer/paper for a long time?
3) How can I join the film of the month club?
4) How can I join the developer of the month club?
5) Should I go to exhibits to see glowing prints?
6) Should I devote myself to my craft?

I recently performed the Tchaikovsky Piano Concerto here in Los Angeles. You might say I know a little bit about music. Steve, if I happen to prefer the sound and playability of a New York Steinway vs. a Hamburg Steinway, should I play the Hamburg piano until I like it? Until I can make it sound kinda like the New York? Or, once I discover I like the New York model, should I make a note of that and use that for my concert. I know both Piano's are awesome, both have helped countless great musicians produce beautiful music and that simply by buying one Mark, you're not going to play like Horowitz. However, that doesn't make them less different. Give me a friggin break here. You guys insult my intelligence. I asked a simple question here. You lead me to believe I'm to assume you married the first girl you met because you wouldn't think of looking around a little to try and find someone compatible with qualities that please you. Afterall, a woman's function is the same from one wife to another. You can tease those special qualities out of her right Steve? Take a look at your friends' wives. See what they do, and make your wife do the same thing.

I tried to pose my intial question in order to avoid any know it all answers. But, I guess I failed.

Eric, Merg, and Michael.. thanks for your help. And Merg, that's what I kinda expected he used and why I asked.

[steve simmons]

Bobby

If you back up a little and read my answers without any emotion you will see that i was responding to a bigger question than just yours. I was trying to make a point that asking such things as...... really is little value. You took the answer more personally than I intended it. If you were insulted I apologize.

steve simmons

[Bobby Sandstrom]

Steve I accept your apology. I believe a person that is committed and passionate about his craft, about his photography soon discovers the pitfalls of constantly changing, films developers and papers. How quickly one can become tangled and lost in all of the variables really never knowing where you stand. So, you learn control. You learn how the curve of the film relates to the curve of the paper. You learn how to control these curves through various means, and you start by narrowing down the variables, ie, the film, developer, and paper. And then you continue learning and trying new things for the rest of your photographic life. Because I've noticed a certain aesthetic with regards to prints I've seen made with Pyro, I've been toying with the idea of using it myself. However, because of all the information and misinformation floating around the web with regards to it's toxicity, and because I have small children nearby, I've avoided trying it. However, I've recently purchased an 8x10 camera and am now starting to put it to work. I just returned from a trip up to Carmel and having stopped in at the Photography West Gallery, I was shown Don's soon to be released book. For those who haven't seen it you're in for a real treat! His images glowed like no others I've seen before... from anyone! Anyway, because I'm now getting serious with my 8x10, I figured I'd standardize on a film/developer combination that would probably be different than what I'm using for my 4x5 stuff being as I plan to contact print. This opens up some new doors for obvious reasons. I had a feeling that Don's negs (from the book) might have been processed in pyro. And, if I discover they were (I put a call into him) then I will do the same. I must admit I hope they weren't as this would save me from making the decision to work with pyro. Experience is what you get when you don't get what you want. I'm a firm believer in discovery, in trying things yourself. You learn a lot that way. However, because this is a safety issue, I'm approching it in a little different way. Besides, I see nothing wrong with standing on the shoulders of giants when you can.

[Patrick Raymore]

Hi Bobby,

Don is indeed a wonderful, intense and somewhat reclusive photographer. At the time he made most of his plant photography he used a 8*10 camera, and plus-X developed in HC110. Most of the word was done with a 240mm Fujinon, with a few with a 300mm, and 480mm fujinon. A 600mm Apo tessar was used for his long landscapes. He regularly exposes his low values as high as Zone IV and pulls his development so his high tones go no further than Zone VII or VIII. I hope this was helpful.

[Kerik]

I am so glad to hear about this book! Don Worth is one of my faves and it's about time his work got some more attention.

[Gregory Gomez]

Hi Bobby!

While I am not a photo expert, I have studied the prints of many artists over the years. It may be a little difficult to duplicate the look and feel of Don Worth's prints using "modern" materials, but not impossible.

After looking at Don's images these past 20 years, I don't get the impression he used Pyro to develop his negatives. But I could be wrong. You might try contacting him directly. He just might tell you his working methods.

In the mean time, you might try Kodak HC-110 for your film developer and use a combination of either Ilford FP-4+ or Tri-X. I would also try printing on Ilford Galerie fiber-based, graded paper using Dektol/Selectol Soft or the Beer's formula. (Please refer to Ansel Adam's photo series that was published in the 1980s.)

If you can afford it, Photography West Gallery in Carmel has Don Worth images on sale right now for $700 each, a $500 savings off the regular price, which I think is a good deal. It would be in your best interest to own a couple of Don's original prints so you will have a great reference point first hand.

By all means copy his technique if you can. Why not? You won't go to hell, nor will you be jailed. In time, you will develop your own personal vision and way of doing things that will automatically give your work a personalized touch.

As for some of the reactions on this site regarding inquires into the artistic craft and vision of the master's that have gone before us, I am completely mystified. I see nothing wrong with your very legitimate questions. I only hope that you can achieve the results you are seeking.

Best regards,

Greg

[Bobby Sandstrom]

Thanks so much for your help Pat, Kerik and Greg. Kerik, his book is indeed very special. You won't be disappointed.

Thanks again guys.

[Merg Ross]

Greg-

I first exhibited with Don in group shows forty years ago and my comments about technique were relevant to that period. I have not seen the final selection of images for the book Carol has produced but for certain Don used Pyro early on.

Best regards,

Merg

[Brian C. Miller]

"Don Worth...film developer?"
Yes, I do imagine that he does develop his own film. However, I haven't noticed a developer on the shelf with his brand on it, like Newman's Own. }B>

As for using Pyro, most photographic chemicals are toxic if ingested, and I guess that you probably lock up your chemicals to keep them away from your children. Pyro is no different. However, Pyro is the only chemical I use that warns about burning skin.

But just because it burns skin doesn't mean that you should worry about using it in your home. I wear rubber cleaning gloves from the local hardware store because they go up my forearms. When I mix up PMK Pyro (liquid from Photographer's Formulary) I measure the chemicals, part A and part B, into seperate containers. When I am ready to use it, I dump the chemicals into the water, mix them, and proceed with developing my film.

You keep your kids out of the darkroom when you are developing, right? Then you shouldn't have any problems with Pyro. There is another Pyro developer which isn't as toxic. It is Pyrocat-HD (http://unblinkingeye.com/Articles/Pyrocat/pyrocat.html), and is also available from Photographer's Formulary.

[Hans Berkhout]

In one or two early issues of View Camera Mag. is an article (or was it a series of two-I forgot) on this topic. Favourite film/developer combinations of well known B&W L.F.photographers were described. None are the same which tells you something . I'm not sure if it also mentions their printing papers/developers.
Maybe Steve can give you the Vol/Issue#.

[Jay Staton]

I just watched Tiger Woods win his 10th major tournament, using Nike clubs, balls, shoes, and a black outfit. I'm going to switch! But, I'll never play like Tiger!! And its not because I don't look good in black.

[Christopher Nisperos]

Hi Bobby,

This thread has been interesting to read. Be assured: I'm not putting any words into your mouth. I understand that your question was out of curiousity. I believe that "what you REALLY mean is, 'what kind of developer did he use? '", right?

At the same time, since the subject of copying a technique was brought up in this thread —and again, I'm not suggesting that was your aim— , I'd like to take the opportunity to defend those photographers —especially beginners— who DO work in the vein of other great photographers, deliberately. While it is good advice to tell a beginner to work hard and test, the question of style is a seperate issue. Tired, canned, hollow diatribe about "finding your own way" is useless in this regard. It ignores the effects of influence, culture and taste. An artist can't work in a vacumn. To establish a style he needs input —from all art forms including photography. If he or she really like someone's work, bingo. Input, influence, the seeds of culture.

For centuries, here in Europe, apprentice/artists (painters, sculptors, musicians), have studied under masters — sometimes, working in a similar style for entire careers. Why, then, is it such a sin for photographers who are in search of their own style to do the same? If a viewer finds the results objectionable, they're not obliged to buy it or look at it. But to criticise someone —especially a beginner— for following a master, I find innane. On the contrary, we should encourage it. Who in their right mind wants to STOP a beginner from shooting as well Worth or Adams? That's nuts!

Like you, Don Worth was a classical musician (a composer, I believe). He jumped over to photography in the late 1950's. A couple of years ago, I spoke with him about this subject in preparing an article I was writing in conjunction with my exhibition, "Sexy Vegetables, an hommage to Edward Weston". He gave me permission to quote from one of his books:

"I often wonder what might have happened with the music of Mozart if he, at some point, had decided that he could no longer write as he did because of the fact that his "style" was too similar to that of the composer Haydn. I think that any consciously strong attempt to be unlike Haydn would have proven to be very detrimental to his music. And wouldn't it have been great if there had been ten other composers, as inspired as Mozart, writing in the same exact style? I do not believe that we would have ten times the quantity of music, in the style of Mozart, to enjoy today."

I like John Sexton's trees just as much as Ansel's aspens. Don't you?

As a musician, Bobby, I know that none of this is news to you. Just wanted to get my two cents in.

Best,