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altb44
29-Aug-2017, 06:51
I'm going to the UK soon and would like to look for some large format brass lenses for my 5 x 7. Haven't bought any lenses for this format before and I'm not sure what to look for. What makes, diameters etc. should I be on the watch for? I'll be making lens boards for them, if I get any, so I don't have to worry about getting the exact same diameter as my existing lens.

Steven Tribe
29-Aug-2017, 07:06
Not convinced that a personal visit to the UK would be that useful as far as getting hold of suitable lenses. The days of retail outlets for photographica have gone for ever ( since before 1939!) and there are very few camera fairs (Wolverhampton?) left.

The 13x18cm format was probably more popular than the 1/2 plate was in the UK, which means there is more choice in France and Germany. Ebay and other auctions (and here, of course!) will be your best friends for accumulation.

altb44
29-Aug-2017, 17:37
I'm going there anyway and this is by the way...and I have some spare time and a new to me camera :-)

altb44
29-Aug-2017, 18:17
ok, how do I choose a lens from ebay? I have no idea how to figure out if a lens is large format or large enough format for my camera.

any guidelines?

Two23
29-Aug-2017, 19:27
ok, how do I choose a lens from ebay? I have no idea how to figure out if a lens is large format or large enough format for my camera.

any guidelines?


Focal length is a good rough guide. There weren't all that many wide angle lenses way back in time. A 10 inch focal length or longer will most likely cover 5x7.


Kent in SD

altb44
29-Aug-2017, 21:18
Thanks!

renditiont
30-Aug-2017, 02:42
240mm to 300mm are decent focal length for 5x7

altb44
30-Aug-2017, 15:01
This may sound like a dumb question but how do you tell from an ebay listing what the focal length is? The usual thing is that they give the diameter of the lens, and sometimes, rarely, just how long it is.

Dan Fromm
30-Aug-2017, 17:22
Hmm. Are you looking at lenses made to be used as photographic objectives or at magic lantern lenses?

Two23
30-Aug-2017, 18:30
Many sellers on ebay have no clue what they have. Then, you have to look for clues in the photos. Often on the lens it will say, "Covers 5x8" or whatever. On lenses made after ~1920 the focal length usually is printed on the front of the lens around the edge of the glass. If you are talking about lenses from the early to mid 1800s, sometimes the lens will say something like "Extra Rapid No.3". You then have to look that specific lens up and find out what "No.3" covers. Finally, a Petzval's focal length is often about the same as it's physical length (excluding hood.)


Kent in SD

John Kasaian
30-Aug-2017, 21:08
Where to start?
Start by clicking on The LF Home Page on the blue banner at the top of this page and follow the links to 5x7 lens reviews---there are plenty of reviews covering both classic and modern glass to look at.

altb44
30-Aug-2017, 22:58
Another dumb question...can you use magic lantern lenses on a camera?

I may seem rather obsessed with antique lenses...well yes I am. I'm in the middle of an art project and I would like to use some late eighteenth century and early nineteenth century lenses on my camera for it. Have a Lens with a Unicum shutter and would like to see if I can get one or two more.

Pete Oakley
31-Aug-2017, 01:44
Yes you can use magic lantern lenses on LF cameras but be careful. Just because it looks to be a big lens does not always mean that it will cover 4x5 let alone 5x7. I have a largish ML lens that won't cover 4x5 and a smaller ML lens that will.
Pete.

Steven Tribe
31-Aug-2017, 02:22
Early magic lantern lenses are usually Petzvals, but later ones are often the Cooke triplet design. Neither cover anywhere near as much as RRs/aplanats and most anstigmatics do in relation to focal lengths and "bulk"! It could be thought that lenses made for projection are less well made and inspected by the makers, but I have never heard conplaints about imaging.

Unicum shutters are not the most reliable of early shutters. They have problems with the brittle synthetic blades and irises - at least, the ones I have do!

Dan Fromm
31-Aug-2017, 07:07
Another dumb question...can you use magic lantern lenses on a camera?

I may seem rather obsessed with antique lenses...well yes I am. I'm in the middle of an art project and I would like to use some late eighteenth century and early nineteenth century lenses on my camera for it. Have a Lens with a Unicum shutter and would like to see if I can get one or two more.

Yes, people use magic lantern lenses on cameras. Adaptation is a pain and they're no better, often worse, than contemporary lenses made for taking.

Eighteenth century? Photography was invented in the mid-1830s. No photographic objectives were made before then. Telescope, spectacle (eyeglass) and microscope lenses in the 18th century, yes. Lenses for cameras, no, because there were no cameras.

Unicum shutter? 1897. By that time modern lenses (anastigmats) were in production.

There's nothing particularly magic about old lenses. If you want the old-timey look, whatever that means to you, well, its due to a combination of poor exposure when the negatives were taken and faded old prints. Look into paper and processing, not lenses, if you want to get it.

altb44
31-Aug-2017, 17:10
Oops not thinking when I wrote that about the eighteenth century.


Well thanks for the comment about magic lantern lenses. I saw one for sale that is attached to a projector...I guess and I was wondering if it would be ok.

altb44
31-Aug-2017, 17:39
Hi Dan,

I'm aware that there is nothing magic about old lenses. I have a variety of lenses right up to the 2000's at least for my MF and 35mm cameras. I'm actually not going for an "old timey" look as you write, but rather something else and I want to explore what very old lenses can give. Isn't that enought?

It's an artistic decision.

Dan Fromm
31-Aug-2017, 18:06
OP, years ago one of my friends acquired a meterless Nikon F and asked me how to use it. I explained the need for an exposure meter, or at least knowledge of Sunny 16, and that she had to learn technique, i.e., what the camera's controls did. To which she replied that she was an artist and had no need for technique. She went out in the woods, twiddled her cameras' dials artistically and got the predicted terrible results. Eventually she learned to control the process and now realizes her artistic vision -- she's a better artist than I am -- very well.

You're not that much of a beginner but you're as deluded. Lenses' attributes, angle of view excepted, have very little to do with art. Old lenses old give the same results as new.

However, you say you know what you want to accomplish and you're using your resources, not mine. So go do what pleases you and be happy. Experiment with lenses. Have fun.

altb44
31-Aug-2017, 20:45
oh my. Since you don't know my background I won't argue.

enough said.

John Kasaian
31-Aug-2017, 21:09
altb44,
Old lenses are fun if you can find them cheap enough. I have a few, in fact I have an old 13" Cooke Anastigmat---I don't remember the series off hand--- mounted in a Betax shutter. It came aboard a 5x7 Agfa. Nice Bokeh. A worthy choice for a 5x7 IMHO.
No, it's not for sale.

A fellow who posts here mounts Meniscus lenses in barrels---I'm sure someone will chime in with his name---not "antique" but the Meniscus is a very early "antique" design. You might enjoy trying one out!

Another resource would be to find a copy of Kingslake's History of Photographic Lens which gives photographic examples of a few Historic lens formulas with character.

Still another resource is the Vade Mecum (sp??) a digital resource covering old lenses cataloging things like formats covered, etc...
I don't have one and wouldn't know where to find it, but several members on the forum have access. Perhaps they can tell you more.

Good luck!

LeeSimmons
31-Aug-2017, 21:26
altb44
I really enjoy my vintage lenses and they definitely deliver a different rendering than modern lenses. I prefer them in the era of sharp everything. Search auctions for 5x7 lens and that'll get a bunch of results. Think about how you plan to use the lens - in the field or in studio. Portrait or landscape. If flash is required and shutter speed control if exposures faster than a second. These questions help narrow what you are looking for.

I recently travelled to Europe with the thought of finding an old lens. I found a leica shop and a $900 Euro rolleicord. Needless to say no lens. But the hunt is fun and something to do and who knows maybe you'll get lucky. Have fun with it.

altb44
31-Aug-2017, 21:57
Thank you John and LeeSimmons.

altb44
31-Aug-2017, 22:00
Hey Steve,
very interesting. Some things to look for on my journeys. Who knows?
As for the shutter, I guess I'll just be careful with it, at least until I find something else? I only use it on T right now, as I'm doing paper negatives.

Mark Sawyer
1-Sep-2017, 00:48
Lenses' attributes, angle of view excepted, have very little to do with art. Old lenses old give the same results as new...

Yeah, 12-inch Apo-Sironar N, 12-inch Cooke Portrait IIa, 12-inch CC Harrison Portrait Petzval, 12-inch Kodak Portrait Lens, 12-inch B&L Tessar, 12-inch f/2.5 Aero Ektar, 12-inch Puyo-Pulligny Objectif d' Artiste, all about the same...

Two23
1-Sep-2017, 06:09
Lenses' attributes, angle of view excepted, have very little to do with art. Old lenses old give the same results as new.




I'm going to disagree to a degree. Old lenses (I'll define as pre-war, and usually even as pre-1890) are uncoated and that alone gives them a much softer look than modern lenses. I can usually tell if a lens used to take a photo was coated or not. The older lenses do have a softer look overall, and the way the sharpness of the center gives way to softer outer areas is another clue. Older lenses are generally much simpler construction (4 element) vs the modern lenses. My Nikon and Sigma lenses have something like 18 elements! To say there is no difference between an 1870 lens and a 2010 lens suggests there has been no progress in lens design/construction for those 140 years.

Below: Multnomah Falls. First shot: Chamonix 045n, c.1880 E&HT Anthony rapid rectilinear, FP4. Second shot: Nikon D800E, Nikon 24mm PC-E.


Kent in SD

Pete Oakley
2-Sep-2017, 01:44
Antique shops are worth checking out in the UK, but don't raise your hopes too much. There is a breed of idiot dealers in this country who will try to up the price when they hear your accent. In my opinion a fair price for an average magic lantern lens is £25 to £35 UKP ( always check for lens separation). If you have a sheet of A4 white paper with you it might be possible to check the coverage of the lens.
Pete

CCHarrison
2-Sep-2017, 06:17
The Lens Collectors Vade Mecum can be purchased here:

http://antiquecameras.net/lensvademecum.html

altb44
2-Sep-2017, 06:33
Good tip, thanks! Now if only I could conjure up my mother's Yorkshire accent!

Steven Tribe
2-Sep-2017, 08:40
There is still a degree of difference in the various "Yorkshire" accents - its a big county with lots of local patriotism (primitive xenophobia?) and restricted choice of marriage partners. The locals in some areas of Engĉand used to able to pinpoint a person's origin to a few villages or district of a town.