Stepping up: the second camera?

[kuparikettu]

Hi everyone!

I have now been a large format enthusiast for some four years and my experience has been that I like LF more and more. This year I have shot more 4x5" than during any previous year. I mostly shoot landscapes, this year also some with models in them.

The more I shoot, however, the more painfully aware I become of the shortcomings of my camera. This has lead me to ponder buying a better camera.

I own a Penta 45F, which is apparently a Korean clone of Wista 45. It is rather light, the material it is made of is not metal. This is a plus, since I definitely like to be able to carry it in my back bag. The biggest problem with my camera is (surprise, surprise) its build quality. Setting movements is always a bit fiddly, as different parts of the camera seem to have a bit too generous "tolerances". One has to be somewhat careful with this camera not to accidentally move some part of it before and while inserting the film holder.

My question is now, would I be best served by buying a used Wista 45 or some other camera, such as Chamonix 45? As I have never used any other large format cameras, I have been wondering if my earlier experience with a Wista clone would be best served by moving on to an authentic Wista. On the other hand, while I have enjoyed being able to carry my 135mm lens inside my camera, I'm not too fond of the difficulty of using wider lenses with my camera -- wider than 90mm would get a bit difficult. Also, a heavier camera is not something I'd see as fitting for my use.

So, what would you suggest? I have thus far used on my camera front and back tilts and I could see myself using the front rise and both front and back swings in some situation, even if I haven't encountered one yet.

[Peter De Smidt]

The Chamonix sounds like it would be a good fit.

[jp]

There are many choices; what's your budget?

If it is generous, the Canham cameras are pretty rugged, especially their metal ones.

There are plenty of used Linhof options too. They are rugged and precise but I am not familiar with the options for them.

There are probably exceptions, but I think the lighter weight cameras are going to be more fiddly because they are going to use smaller knobs, friction surfaces, etc..

If you can get to some workshop or meeting of lf people, handling different cameras is valuable.

[chassis]

Have a look at the Toyo 45AII, and 45A for that matter. Both are solidly built, packable and can use lenses from 58mm to 300mm. The 58mm requires a recessed lens board and a 300 requires the optional extension back. Without the recessed lens board and back extension, lenses from about 72mm to 240mm can be used. Lenses can not be stored on the camera, the lens+board needs to be removed to close the camera.

I packed mine on a 10 mile bike ride and photo excursion in New York City this week. I'm a satisfied user of this camera.

[Peter Collins]

I have a recent vintage Chamonix 45N-2, and I find it locks down very well. And simple. Just what I needed.

[kuparikettu]

Thanks for the first suggestions. My budget is somewhere around $500-1000 USD, although living in Finland everything I import costs me extra 24% VAT in addition to shipping. Considering that, cheap price is not a problem ;)

I guess Toyo 45A is one of the cheaper options -- Does a grafmatic fit it?
How exhausting does it get to carry it around?
Using wider lenses than 90mm?

[Mark Sawyer]

The best 4x5 is an 8x10! :rolleyes:

[Willie]

David Muench and many other top notch outdoor 4x5 shooters use Linhof and find it does a good job. Solid and will last for decades.

[DG 3313]

I have the Toyo 45A with the rear ext. and rotating back. I use a 75mm Grandagon on a flat board......to reduce weight, I carry fewer film holders and fewer lenses on long walks.....I don't consider myself a hiker.......The Toyo is rock solid and affordable.


Thanks for the first suggestions. My budget is somewhere around $500-1000 USD, although living in Finland everything I import costs me extra 24% VAT in addition to shipping. Considering that, cheap price is not a problem ;)

I guess Toyo 45A is one of the cheaper options -- Does a grafmatic fit it?
How exhausting does it get to carry it around?
Using wider lenses than 90mm?

[kuparikettu]

Ah yes, almost forgot: I'm rather attached to my Leitz Tilt-All tripod, so I guess that does at least rule out the 8x10" option ;)

I do own a gigantic Gitzo with geared center column as well, but that's certainly not something I'm going to carry around in addition to a large camera! :)

[kuparikettu]

Ah yes, almost forgot: I'm rather attached to my Leitz Tilt-All tripod, so I guess that does at least rule out the 8x10" option ;)

I do own a gigantic Gitzo with geared center column as well, but that's certainly not something I'm going to carry around in addition to a large camera! :)

[Doremus Scudder]

There are a couple of categories of cameras for you to consider in this thread.

Metal-body cameras like the Linhofs or the Wista 45D, Toyo 45A, etc. These do indeed have remarkable build quality and precise movements, but tend to be heavier due to the metal construction.

Then there are the wooden folders. More traditional designs like the Wista DXs and Shen Hao cameras are often very well built and not too fiddly (I use my Wista SW for architectural work all the time and have no complaints). Some of these, however are limited in bellows draw to around 300mm (I use a 300mm Nikkor M on my Wistas with a top-hat lensboard). So, if you need longer lenses, you have to go to the larger models in this category. The Chamonix and other newer designs are built around a slightly different concept where the front standard is attached to a mounting hole during set-up and front tilt and rise/fall are on the same control. This can be a bit fiddly for some. Also, the central focusing screw controlled from the rear of the camera can be an advantage for some; disadvantage for others.

Somehow, this always boils down to lightweight vs sturdiness/fiddliness/size. You'll have to decide for yourself. FWIW, my go-to field cameras for years have been Wista DXs (or the SX, which is the same camera but with interchangeable bellows). I like lightweight. On the other hand, what one likes is largely what one is used to.

Best,

Doremus

[Bob Salomon]

There are a couple of categories of cameras for you to consider in this thread.

Metal-body cameras like the Linhofs or the Wista 45D, Toyo 45A, etc. These do indeed have remarkable build quality and precise movements, but tend to be heavier due to the metal construction.

Then there are the wooden folders. More traditional designs like the Wista DXs and Shen Hao cameras are often very well built and not too fiddly (I use my Wista SW for architectural work all the time and have no complaints). Some of these, however are limited in bellows draw to around 300mm (I use a 300mm Nikkor M on my Wistas with a top-hat lensboard). So, if you need longer lenses, you have to go to the larger models in this category. The Chamonix and other newer designs are built around a slightly different concept where the front standard is attached to a mounting hole during set-up and front tilt and rise/fall are on the same control. This can be a bit fiddly for some. Also, the central focusing screw controlled from the rear of the camera can be an advantage for some; disadvantage for others.

Somehow, this always boils down to lightweight vs sturdiness/fiddliness/size. You'll have to decide for yourself. FWIW, my go-to field cameras for years have been Wista DXs (or the SX, which is the same camera but with interchangeable bellows). I like lightweight. On the other hand, what one likes is largely what one is used to.

Best,

Doremus

All Wista wooden and metal 45 cameras have exactly the same bellows draw. All except extension beds and bellows as well as extension lens boards.