PyroCat HD Quantity Question

[IanBarber]

Not sure if it makes and difference but this will be my workflow.


Develop 4x5 sheets in a Paterson tank using the Mod54 holder
Scanning (not darkroom printing) the negatives
Using pre-made Pyro HD (see below)


167031

Available Films On Hand


Ilford FP4+
FomaPan 100
Kodak TMAX 100


Dilution
I will probably use the 1+1+100 dilution as this appears to be the standard but as I shall be scanning, not sure if this is correct

Normal Scene Development times
For a starting point, I guess I will turn to the Massive Dev Chart for each of the above films

Semi-Stand Development Times
Probably go with 20 minutes with 4 inversions every 7 minutes

Question:
Is there a minimum amount of A+B required.

What I mean is... when I use HC110, I make sure I have a minimum of 6ml per 80 sq/ins of film (4x 5x4 sheets) or 1x (120 Roll)

[j.e.simmons]

Look over the site
Http://Pyrocat-hd.com
It answers a lot of your questions. Also look over Sandy King's discussion of divided development. It does work for scanning, but I don't think, from my limited experience, that the resulting negatives would work well for traditional printing.

[IanBarber]

Look over the site
Http://Pyrocat-hd.com
It answers a lot of your questions. Also look over Sandy King's discussion of divided development. It does work for scanning, but I don't think, from my limited experience, that the resulting negatives would work well for traditional printing.

I had stumbled across this page after I asked the question and found it to very good.

I am presuming then that I can use the pyro which I have bought in the above post as a 2 stop bath developer as per the article in the website you mentioned

[j.e.simmons]

I have not used their version, but I don't see why not. The two bath system uses much more developer, but is an easy system for scanning. Meter the shadows to get enough shadows and development takes care of the high lights.

[Alan9940]

Some time back I asked Sandy the question about minimum quantities of stock developer needed for 4x5 because I started working with extreme minimal agitation techniques and he said you could probably goes as high as 1:1:400-500 without any concern.

[Peter Gomena]

Pyrocat-HD is amazingly potent. I routinely tray process up to 8 sheets of 4x5" film in a liter of 1:1:100 working solution without a problem. My standard time for FP4+ at ISO 125 is around 8 minutes for normal contrast scenes.

[IanBarber]

Pyrocat-HD is amazingly potent. I routinely tray process up to 8 sheets of 4x5" film in a liter of 1:1:100 working solution without a problem. My standard time for FP4+ at ISO 125 is around 8 minutes for normal contrast scenes.

ive stumbled across many people saying FP4+ and PyroHD work hand in glove, do you agree Peter

[IanBarber]

Some time back I asked Sandy the question about minimum quantities of stock developer needed for 4x5 because I started working with extreme minimal agitation techniques and he said you could probably goes as high as 1:1:400-500 without any concern.


Cheers Alan

[Steve Sherman]

Look over the site
Http://Pyrocat-hd.com
It answers a lot of your questions. Also look over Sandy King's discussion of divided development. It does work for scanning, but I don't think, from my limited experience, that the resulting negatives would work well for traditional printing.

Typically negatives destined for scanning are processed to a very low contrast index and then adjusted in Photoshop. This makes for a negative with higher acutance. I employ a similar philosophy with my negative design in concert with Split Contrast Printing technique using Multi Contrast Silver Gelatin papers. During a ONE on ONE Pyro and Split Printing workshop I gave this past weekend the student with 30+ years of Large Format and Silver printing described my negatives as "disturbingly flat" looking negatives which produce full range prints with incredible Mid Tone contrast. So yes the negs will work for scanning and Silver printing. Alt Processes may require higher negative density for the longer scaled medium.

[IanBarber]

Typically negatives destined for scanning are processed to a very low contrast index and then adjusted in Photoshop. This makes for a negative with higher acutance. I employ a similar philosophy with my negative design in concert with Split Contrast Printing technique using Multi Contrast Silver Gelatin papers. During a ONE on ONE Pyro and Split Printing workshop I gave this past weekend the student with 30+ years of Large Format and Silver printing described my negatives as "disturbingly flat" looking negatives which produce full range prints with incredible Mid Tone contrast. So yes the negs will work for scanning and Silver printing. Alt Processes may require higher negative density for the longer scaled medium.

Thanks Steve, thats that one out of the way

[jp]

for FP4+, I do one minute of inversion, the once per minute for 11 minutes in my combiplan which should work similar to the paterson tanks. 1 L of solution, 1:1:100.
I have not tried smaller dilutions as 1:1:100 looks good to me and it's already quite affordable developer at that ratio.
Get the normal developing down perfect, then mess with the semi-stand/stand options. The negatives do look a little flat, but scan/print nice.

[IanBarber]

for FP4+, I do one minute of inversion, the once per minute for 11 minutes in my combiplan which should work similar to the paterson tanks. 1 L of solution, 1:1:100.
I have not tried smaller dilutions as 1:1:100 looks good to me and it's already quite affordable developer at that ratio.
Get the normal developing down perfect, then mess with the semi-stand/stand options. The negatives do look a little flat, but scan/print nice.


Thanks jp

Last night, I had a conversation with Steve Sherman and he kindly answered one or two questions I had about Pyro and minimal Agitation.

As us Brits say... "This Guy really knows his onions" and is extremely helpful

[AtlantaTerry]

I am comfortable with HC-110 and scanned negs, is Pyro better?

[IanBarber]

I am comfortable with HC-110 and scanned negs, is Pyro better?

A friend and I did a test the other day as he had just purchased some PyroHD

We went to a local church, he exposed one sheet of film and developed it in the PyroHD and I exposed one sheet of film and exposed it in HC110

167158

167159
This is a crop of the one developed in HC110

167160
This is a crop of the one developed in the Pyro

[esearing]

I am comfortable with HC-110 and scanned negs, is Pyro better?

Most people discussing Pyrocat HD are discussing the results with Sheet film .

AT normal dilutions Pyrocat gives you a little more flexibility on time/agitation scheme without building contrast as fast as HC-110, the differences in shadow details and midtone texture are subtle.

With minimal agitation and diluted pyrocat you can easily expand and contract FP4 and Delta 100, and textures differences are more obvious. With HC-110 I was often losing my shadow details when trying to compress highlights in high contrast situations. I still use HC-110 or DDX for HP5/Trix roll film . Pyrocat HD is not a magic bullet, but allows me to think about tone/zone placement and processing outcomes better than I was able to with HC-110.

I also have salvaged some under processed negatives using bleach then redevelopment in Pyrocat.

[seezee]

Some time back I asked Sandy the question about minimum quantities of stock developer needed for 4x5 because I started working with extreme minimal agitation techniques and he said you could probably goes as high as 1:1:400-500 without any concern.

I too use minimum agitation & was confused that I was able to get away with well below the minimum required chemistry. Then Sandy pointed out to me that his recommendations didn't apply to 'stand' or 'semi-stand' development. FWIW, I develop 6 sheets at a time in 1010ml of solution (1:1:200). This works fine for the x-ray film I'm using, but I haven't tried it with any panchromatic film yet.

[Alan9940]

I too use minimum agitation & was confused that I was able to get away with well below the minimum required chemistry. Then Sandy pointed out to me that his recommendations didn't apply to 'stand' or 'semi-stand' development. FWIW, I develop 6 sheets at a time in 1010ml of solution (1:1:200). This works fine for the x-ray film I'm using, but I haven't tried it with any panchromatic film yet.

FWIW, I develop 4 - 6 sheets of 4x5 Fomapan 100 in a B&W King tank at 6:4:1,050 @70F as follows: 5 mins water pre-soak, 2 mins initial agitation, then 6 x 3(20) where the tank sits for 6 mins, then 20 secs agitation, then sit another 6 mins, etc, for 3 cycles. I develop single sheets of 8x10 Fomapan 100 in homemade tube tanks I built using more working solution, of course, but same development technique. This style development generates a very nice negative revealing quite pronounced edge effects.