View Full Version : How to use roll drums for devoloping 8x10 and 4x5 negs
guys
I've just bought a Unirol roller and Beseler 8x10 tank. My thinking is this, but I really don't have a clue.
Load film in the dark (normal)
Pre wash 1 minute
Dev 6 minutes or whatever the film box says
Stop 1 minute
Fix 5 minutes
Pop the cap on the drum and rinse for 10 minutes by just letting tap water flood the tank
The Dev time depends on film type and developer ............ if for example the massive dev app says 6 minutes for devolop time. Is that the same amount of time if using a roller??
Thanks in advance
Neil
Hi Neil,
Nothing wrong with your suggested process. I don't use the Beseler tank (i use Jobo) but the concept is the same.
The consistency of your rotation/agitation speed will be a key factor. If your negs have too much contrast, then reduce the speed or dev time to fine-tune your process.
Make sure the film is kept off of the walls of the tank, on ribs etc to ensure the pre-wash gets to the film backing to remove the anti-halation dye-layer of the film.
Mike
Hi Neil,
Nothing wrong with your suggested process. I don't use the Beseler tank (i use Jobo) but the concept is the same.
The consistency of your rotation/agitation speed will be a key factor. If your negs have too much contrast, then reduce the speed or dev time to fine-tune your process.
Make sure the film is kept off of the walls of the tank, on ribs etc to ensure the pre-wash gets to the film backing to remove the anti-halation dye-layer of the film.
Mike
Thanks Mike.
Hopefully I'm worrying about nothing but I just noticed that one of the drums that I bought yesterday on eBay is a Beseler film drum and the other is a Beseler Print Drum...........Hopefully I haven't bought the wrong drum??
Neil
A couple of thoughts.
Drums are great for many reasons. They save space over trays. They reduce fumes. They save money -- less chemicals. Each negative/print gets FRESH chemicals. You can process with the lights ON!!! Most importantly, they FORCE you to be accurate on your time of processing.
That brings me to the second point. You need to make some tests. The manufacturers recommendations are a good starting point, but you will NEED to make some changes because how they tested things was not the same as how you are doing things.
Third, each drum is different, such as number, height and thickness of rubs, etc. Another reason for your tests. The biggest "problem" I have run across is the BASE nature of developers. It is VERY slippery. If you have four sheets of 4x5 film in a 8x10 drum, they can move around inside the drum while processing -- slide/shift or come loose -- and ruin your hard work. You can run tests for this. When adding/draining chemicals to the tubes, move them very slowly and carefully. Chances are there is a section of the interior of your tube without ribs. ALWAYS keep this on the BOTTOM when you are adding or draining chemicals. Otherwise, the chemicals can move the film around. PUT A MARK on the opposite side of the tube, so you'll know when the unribbed section is on the bottom.
Lastly, ignore everything I've said and discover it for yourself. You are on the right track.
I just noticed that one of the drums that I bought yesterday on eBay is a Beseler film drum and the other is a Beseler Print Drum...........Hopefully I haven't bought the wrong drum??The two drums I have, that I purchased many years ago, are "print" processing drums, but I have used them for 4X5 and 8X10 film processing and they worked fine.
dentkimterry
8-Jul-2017, 05:47
guys
I've just bought a Unirol roller and Beseler 8x10 tank. My thinking is this, but I really don't have a clue.
Load film in the dark (normal)
Pre wash 1 minute
Dev 6 minutes or whatever the film box says
Stop 1 minute
Fix 5 minutes
Pop the cap on the drum and rinse for 10 minutes by just letting tap water flood the tank
The Dev time depends on film type and developer ............ if for example the massive dev app says 6 minutes for devolop time. Is that the same amount of time if using a roller??
Thanks in advance
Neil
I use the listed development time minus 15% per ilford instructions.
I use Colourtronic drums which are not marked "film" or "print". They have small ribs, and I use them for film and prints.
But in both cases, when it comes to final washing, I do it my own way. For film, I put the sheets in a typical 4x5 tank and wash with flowing water (after a hypo remover -- sodium sulfite + sodium bisulfite). For prints, I put the sheets in a suitable tray and wash with flowing water. For BIG prints, I hang on a line with clothes pins and spray down both sides with a kitchen sink sprayer I installed in my darkroom sink. For murals, I hang them on an outside clothes line and wash them down with a garden hose sprayer.
Jim Noel
8-Jul-2017, 09:39
A couple of thoughts.
Drums are great for many reasons. They save space over trays. They reduce fumes. They save money -- less chemicals. Each negative/print gets FRESH chemicals. You can process with the lights ON!!! Most importantly, they FORCE you to be accurate on your time of processing.
That brings me to the second point. You need to make some tests. The manufacturers recommendations are a good starting point, but you will NEED to make some changes because how they tested things was not the same as how you are doing things.
Third, each drum is different, such as number, height and thickness of rubs, etc. Another reason for your tests. The biggest "problem" I have run across is the BASE nature of developers. It is VERY slippery. If you have four sheets of 4x5 film in a 8x10 drum, they can move around inside the drum while processing -- slide/shift or come loose -- and ruin your hard work. You can run tests for this. When adding/draining chemicals to the tubes, move them very slowly and carefully. Chances are there is a section of the interior of your tube without ribs. ALWAYS keep this on the BOTTOM when you are adding or draining chemicals. Otherwise, the chemicals can move the film around. PUT A MARK on the opposite side of the tube, so you'll know when the unribbed section is on the bottom.
Lastly, ignore everything I've said and discover it for yourself. You are on the right track.
The problem of the films sliding around was solved in at least 2 ways. Unicolor provided a rubber like wedge which slid over the "V" rib. Two sheets are loaded and pushed to the bottom, the wedge is pushed onto the "V" until it touches the loaded film and then the last two sheets are loaded. Chromega provided a wing like piece which slid down the center rib in the same manner.
Both work great. Rarely do I use 4x5 film today because I prefer larger sizes, but when I do , I use one of these tanks rather than hauling out the Jobo.
Jac@stafford.net
8-Jul-2017, 11:29
The problem of the films sliding around was solved in at least 2 ways. Unicolor provided a rubber like wedge which slid over the "V" rib. Two sheets are loaded and pushed to the bottom, the wedge is pushed onto the "V" until it touches the loaded film and then the last two sheets are loaded.
A well written article by James Phillips right here on large format info: http://www.largeformatphotography.info/unicolor/
The home made clips are a great idea.
I use print drums for 8x10, Cibacolor I believe. I line them with 8x10" cutouts of nylon screen mesh (for repairing window screens) so the back of the sheet gets some solution. Depending on the film's anti-halation, I use a long pre-wash with fairly warm water, and dilute my developer to make developing as long as possible (there's a limit because you can only put so much liquid in the drum). I only have an Ilford motorized base, 1 direction and rather high speed, I found it would not do for 8x10 negs so I roll by hand on the kitchen table. I don't know if they can be modded to roll slowly and reverse, but I do know a simple speed control will not work (it just stops).
Like others....I have used Beseler drums for B/W film development for many years. I use the 8x10 drum for 4x5 (2 sheets at a time) and 11x14 drum for 5x7 and 8x10 film (2 sheets at a time).
I am a low volume hobby user and this usually works pretty good. I often use D-76 mixed 1:1 on tmx-100 @ iso 60 for 10.5 minutes and tmx-400 @ iso 250 for 12.5 minutes.
Use fresh chemistry and level the tube before use. I agree with others....you need to get the development down for your shooting style, lens shutters, room temperatures, etc. IMHO, uneven development is the biggest problem with the Beseler drums and roller. I use 3 oz. of chemistry (one shot) for two 8x10 negs...this is a very cost effective way to develop film. If you have a hypo stain on the neg after you fix it and remove it from the tank........put it in a tray with some hypo clear and the worst stain wont last long.
guys
I've just bought a Unirol roller and Beseler 8x10 tank. My thinking is this, but I really don't have a clue.
Load film in the dark (normal)
Pre wash 1 minute
Dev 6 minutes or whatever the film box says
Stop 1 minute
Fix 5 minutes
Pop the cap on the drum and rinse for 10 minutes by just letting tap water flood the tank
The Dev time depends on film type and developer ............ if for example the massive dev app says 6 minutes for devolop time. Is that the same amount of time if using a roller??
Thanks in advance
Neil
The two drums I have, that I purchased many years ago, are "print" processing drums, but I have used them for 4X5 and 8X10 film processing and they worked fine.Fantastic to hear that.........thanks
I don't know if they can be modded to roll slowly and reverse, but I do know a simple speed control will not work (it just stops).
By this do you mean a simple rheostat switch?
Daniel Unkefer
9-Jul-2017, 06:37
I use a Unicolor Uniroller to roll my Jobo Multitank 5 and Multitank 6,and I process rolls and sheets in them. This works very well. The Unicolor Unidrum also works well for sheets.
David Lobato
9-Jul-2017, 07:20
The 11x14 Unicolor drums process two sheets of 8x10 film just fine. And obviously, one sheet of 11x14 film. It's much easier to remove the film sheets with the drums fully filled with water after the wash. It also lessens the chances of scratching the film.
By this do you mean a simple rheostat switch?
No, a motor speed control. Like commonly used on ceiling fans.
No, a motor speed control. Like commonly used on ceiling fans.
I have a standard cooling room fan with three speeds. I wanted finer control. I added in a simple, 110 volt, dimmer switch to the line. Now I turn the fan on -- to the HIGH setting -- and can adjust it to exactly what I want. I can't get any higher than the HIGH setting, of course, but I can set it much lower than the LOW setting (even though the fan's switch is set to HIGH).
I have a standard cooling room fan with three speeds. I wanted finer control. I added in a simple, 110 volt, dimmer switch to the line. Now I turn the fan on -- to the HIGH setting -- and can adjust it to exactly what I want. I can't get any higher than the HIGH setting, of course, but I can set it much lower than the LOW setting (even though the fan's switch is set to HIGH).
As I said, this will not work with the Ilford drum roller. It just stops.
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