fogged fiber paper and potassium bromide

[zsolt]

greetings!
run out of my fresh paper,and reallised that i have some really old fiber paper.i tested them yesterday and nearly all of them showed more or less paper fog,what i could fix with some potassium bromide,some needed more some less,but all could be fixed this way..
tried to print today,made a fresh developer (same amount everything)with the same amount of pot.bromide,the test strips came out good,till the 4th strip..where i could see some fog appear again
it appeared after the 4th small teststrip,no big print..so it didnt got exhausted..
at this time i would like to tell that this is no safelight fog,when i saw the fog, to skip this possibility i just developed and enlarged with the safe lights off..same effect..fog.
added some more potassium bromide,but this made my paper seemingly loose like 2-2.5 grade,on a paper thats contrast is since a long time not as it once was:(
could someone explain what i am experiencing here,and why?
maybe some same experiences?and how it got fixed?
i really would like to be able to use the papers
the first teststrips showed good useable contrast,and ZERO fog..
any help is apreciated!
Thanks!
Zsolt

[zsolt]

my darkroom is a small room on the 7th(top)floor in Barcelona,so it can get pretty warm in there,but it has never been a problem with fresh paper..i use Ansels factorial system,find the emergence time and apply the factor.
im just thinking that maybe the hot temperature caused the pot.bromide to exhaust,or stop to work..after the forth strip(?)
any ideas welcome,please share your thoughts,i would love to fix this paper fog issue,cause as i sad,the first test strip was beautiful..too contrasty,started to tweak the grades made 3 more strips,and i noticed the fog..
i know that there is something,cause i see it,but i dont know why..
i did everything i could(i think)to stop this depressing thing,and it worked for a while,and its still there..my whites look like mud:(
Please,if you can help me open up my whites for a longer time than 4 test strips!:)Any idea welcome!
Thanks folks!

[jp]

Worse case, you could fix it, wash it, dry it, and use it for some alt process experimenting

[zsolt]

i would be damned if i would do that,for the rest of my life..:)
not that im against alt process experimenting,its just that its plenty of good fiber paper and the test strips showed some great deep blacks and open whites,and after a brief time(4 teststrips)the pot.bromide gave up on me..
im Sure it can be fixed somehow,i just dont know enough..it fixed it beautifully,and than the fog came back..
Thanks jp anyhow!

[greginpa]

Acquire some Moersch Restrainer Neutral. 5ml in a liter works for me with age fogged paper. It comes in a 100ml bottle. Very easy solution for you. It's also cheap given what it does, only about 6 euro.

[plaubel]

And order some Lith developer from Moersch, too.
Some old and fogged papers will give sensational results with lithprinting...

Ritchie

[zsolt]

Acquire some Moersch Restrainer Neutral. 5ml in a liter works for me with age fogged paper. It comes in a 100ml bottle. Very easy solution for you. It's also cheap given what it does, only about 6 euro.

may i ask you Greginpa,did you try pot.bromide before you tried the Moersch restrainer?and also the advantage that the Moersch has against the pure pot.bromide...could you explain it?i like to understand things..not just buy another product even if its just 6 euro..(if i understand and makes sense,than i buy for sure;) )
asking cause i did try it with pot.bromide,and without a doubt it did the job well,but as i sad before it stoed after the 4th teststrip..:(and i would like to understand why..
i hope you can help me understand
Thanks!

[zsolt]

And order some Lith developer from Moersch, too.
Some old and fogged papers will give sensational results with lithprinting...

Ritchie

ashamed a bit,but to tell you the truth Ritchie,i allready looked into that,and found some of the Moersch Lith developer you mentioned is on shelf in a shop in Barcelona,im just still crossing fingers here,so to say..

[greginpa]

Zsolt, I've tried KBR and TAF-1 (a product from Photographer's Formulary) and now I'm using the Moersch stuff. All of them work. I just found my development times getting longer than I like with KBr and Taf-1. I also like the ease of use. I get a bit impatient in the darkroom sometimes. Seconding the lith thing. I've lithed 1930s paper that was impossible to use due to intense fog and gotten beautiful results with a wide range of tones and pure whites.

[Doremus Scudder]

I have no idea why your KBr stopped working. I'd try adding more in small increments to see if that worked. If not, start over and try using benzotriazole to see if that works better as a restrainer.

Finally, if you can't get rid of all the fog at the developer stage, you might want to try bleaching a print in a weak solution of potassium ferricyanide and potassium bromide (or you can use a weak Farmer's reducer; pot ferri and sodium thiosulfate, but it doesn't last long) to clear the whites. I've saved some fogged paper this way with good results.

FWIW, adding more restrainer will slow down the developer and require longer exposure times, but shouldn't affect the contrast of the paper.

Best,

Doremus

[zsolt]

Zsolt, I've tried KBR and TAF-1 (a product from Photographer's Formulary) and now I'm using the Moersch stuff. All of them work. I just found my development times getting longer than I like with KBr and Taf-1. I also like the ease of use. I get a bit impatient in the darkroom sometimes. Seconding the lith thing. I've lithed 1930s paper that was impossible to use due to intense fog and gotten beautiful results with a wide range of tones and pure whites.

Ok,Gentleman,i admit..i bought today a rollei lith developer,and going to use it on the really gray fogged paper,and to be honest,really looking forward to it!selected already approx 30 4x5 negatives with lith in mind.
i looked into the Moersch stuff,and as far as i could find on the net its 4% benzo with DIETHYLENE GLYCOL 15-20%
so tomorrow..lith,here i come:)
Thanks for the suggestions Greginpa!

[zsolt]

I have no idea why your KBr stopped working. I'd try adding more in small increments to see if that worked. If not, start over and try using benzotriazole to see if that works better as a restrainer.

Finally, if you can't get rid of all the fog at the developer stage, you might want to try bleaching a print in a weak solution of potassium ferricyanide and potassium bromide (or you can use a weak Farmer's reducer; pot ferri and sodium thiosulfate, but it doesn't last long) to clear the whites. I've saved some fogged paper this way with good results.

FWIW, adding more restrainer will slow down the developer and require longer exposure times, but shouldn't affect the contrast of the paper.

Best,

Doremus

Hello Doremus!Thanks for the ideas!
to me it was a mistery too..BUT today tried it again,and it worked like a charm,today the paper had a better mood i guess.
had to give 160ml more to the developer,and the exposure changed from 20 sec to 75sec,but it all worked out well
made 2 prints:)im really glad!!
no idea what could have happened yesterday
measured everything to stock solution..mistery..
btw..tried bleaching with ferri,but (as i experienced before too)bleaching is not for me..(not yet..)
i still have to try the bleach that Ansel mentions in his book "The Print" as he says i quote "it has a very little tendency to cause stains"
Thanks Doremus!
AlltheBest!
Zsolt