A few questions on how to develop 8x10 film in trays

[ndwgolf]

I'm away to develop my 8x10 film in a small darkroom using 4 trays......I have a few questions.
1/. What timer can you use in the dark to get the developing, stop and fixer times right
2/. is it better to use 1/9 rather that 1/19 dilution to shorten the developing time?
3/. If the answer to 1 is a iPhone app........which one?

Thanks

Neil

[jp]

I use a normal gralab 300. It's not ideal, but it works. It's on a table behind me and facing away from the tray area so it's glow is not seen by the film
Then I put one hand gently over it so I can feel the second hand sweep past zero so I know when to agitate.
Stop and fix times are not critical so long as they are sufficient and equal or greater than the specified minimums.
An ideal timer would have a gentle sound at the intervals you want for agitation so you don't have to operate by feel or squint at a glowy timer.

I have water for a stop bath (recommended for my developer/fixer combination), and presoak the film in the stop bath tray for a minute in the water before it goes to the developer.

2. I like higher dilution; too short a development time makes for uneven results. Too little solutions makes for uneven results as splashes and waves off the edge of the tray can create additional density along the perimeter of the film.

[Pere Casals]

I'm away to develop my 8x10 film in a small darkroom using 4 trays......I have a few questions.
1/. What timer can you use in the dark to get the developing, stop and fixer times right
2/. is it better to use 1/9 rather that 1/19 dilution to shorten the developing time?
3/. If the answer to 1 is a iPhone app........which one?

Thanks

Neil




1/

Timmer: Smartphone apps, Darkroom Timer and the like, one that has indications by sound if your tray is not light tight. A paper safe is very convenient as can you do most lights open:


165399

Sometimes I close ligts, I open the safe an I check sheet in well covered by liquid.

Once you have the sheet in the stop bath (of after some 15s) you can open lights, development is stopped, and you can fix also lights open, this is nice because you can know fixer freshness. Fixing time should be 2x the time it tahes to clear the yellow halide.


2/ You may dilute more or less for some reasons, for trays you can use different dilutions...

High dilution with low agitation allows for highlight control, if developer is not very concentrated it exhausts faster in highlights areas (if not agitated), so developement is slowed. See "Darkroom Cookbook" book.

If you process N-3 (for example) then you have short development time, with less room for imprecission, very shots development times are not recommended, so with dilution you have longuer development times.

A higher dilution allows for "one shot" in trays without wasting chem. I use often Xtol, for a 8x10 sheet you need 100ml of stock developer, this would result in some 3mm of developer depth in the tray, risking some areas not covered, with 1:1 Xtol dilution you have some 6mm. I waste a bit of developer, I use 130ml of stock, once diluted 1:1 I've 260ml, and this delivers a liquid depth of some 9mm, more than enough.


3/

One straight idea, use IPhone sound recorder and record your voice to record voice instructions in advance, using a timer like if you were doing the real development: Say prepare to drop the sheet in 15 seconds, 5, drop now... Agitate.... ....prepare to dump dev in 15 sec, 5 sec, dump now... And just playback that... I was doing that until using a paper safe. I repeat, after some 15s you have the sheet in the stop just open lights.


I don't presoak, some personals tests suggested me no difference. Ilford tells in their datasheets better no presoak: "A pre-rinse is not recommended as it can lead to uneven processing." in some posts ilford technicians say pre-soak removes some chem in the emulsion that's good for development, like surfactants. Also a lot of people say they like presoaking...

I found not convenient presoaking sheets with tray developent, for tanks and rotary presoaking is straighter.

Regards

Regards

[Alan9940]

I don't develop 8x10 sheet film in trays any longer, but back when I did I used a Gralab timer (like jp.) My timer, however, was on a shelf directly in front of me and about 2 - 2 1/2 feet above the development tray. Did 4x5 the same way. I never had any issues with "glow" from the timer and it wasn't that difficult to see in the dark. Back then, I always used HC-110(B) so I guess you'd say that I used 1:9 in your example.

[Jac@stafford.net]

I'm away to develop my 8x10 film in a small darkroom using 4 trays......I have a few questions

If you can find a rocking Honeywell Nikor Developing tray you need only one. It uses a minimum amount of chemistry which you use one-shot, and it takes up the same space as an 8x10 tray.

Come to remember - I still have three NIB.
.

[xkaes]

Since you mention that you are in a small darkroom, one approach would be to dump trays and use tubes. You save a lot of space and you can work with the lights on all the time. You can put a timer wherever you want, you'll save money on chemicals, and every sheet gets fresh chemicals.

[Pere Casals]

Since you mention that you are in a small darkroom, one approach would be to dump trays and use tubes. You save a lot of space and you can work with the lights on all the time. You can put a timer wherever you want, you'll save money on chemicals, and every sheet gets fresh chemicals.

With trays you don't need to waste chem. With Xtol 1:2 you wate nothing one shot, with 1:1 you waste little or nothing one shot.

With tubes you lose agitation control, that I feel very useful for contrasty scenes and for beyond N-2. Still tubes can be great, sure.

[Jac@stafford.net]

Just curious if anyone knows of the rocking Honeywell Nikor Developing tray.
Methinks me olde age is shewing.
.

[DG 3313]

When I use trays for sheet film.....in a very dark room....I listen to my favorite songs recorded on a digital recorder w/ head phones (and a handy voice over of yours truly) calling out the lapsed time.

This helps with agitation, development time and the silence.

[Vaughn]

I do not think anyone mentioned it yet, but I would recommend one tray size larger than the size of the film. That would be 11x14, but you could get away with 10x12. It has to do with there being slightly more agitation happening at the sides of the tray. You can get away with doing this just for the developing tray.

I use Ilford's Universal PQ Developer from 1:9 to 1:19, depending on the scene and my needs. I would not recommend 1:9 unless you have need of more contrast. It will be fairly active and will kick your highlights in the bum. At 1:19, you will have an easier time controlling the development, which helps with consistency.

Actually, I use dilutions in between often. I print directly from my negatives in both platinum and carbon transfer. The print materials I make tend to have a specific contrast level (grade?) so it is great to have the flexibility to match the negative to the print material. I will occasionally make two negatives of the same scene, and process them differently for both alt processes...generally, 1:9 for carbons and downwards to 1:19 for platinum.

Those big black GraLab timers work great. But I don't think my heart could take the jolting sound of its buzzer anymore.

[LabRat]

Just curious if anyone knows of the rocking Honeywell Nikor Developing tray.
Methinks me olde age is shewing.
.

I think that the old Heath "Color Canoe" trays were the same make, Jac... They can still be found with that name where old darkroom supplies are sold or posted...

They could be floated and rocked on a water tempering bath, and worked well...

Steve K

[Doremus Scudder]

In my "bare-bones" darkroom in Vienna, I use a combination of digital oven timer and metronome to time my tray developing. I set the countdown function on the timer for the total developing time plus 5 seconds (to give me time to get started submerging sheets in the tray) and place it next to the developer tray (I wrap it in plastic wrap to protect it). I set the metronome to 60 beats per minute. The metronome gets started ticking (softly) before I turn off the lights to unload the film. After the pre-soak, I collect the film into one hand, fan them out like a hand of cards and then, with the free hand, start the oven timer (it beeps). I then have five seconds to start my developing. I keep track of seconds on the metronome for my agitation. Example: with six sheets I like to shuffle once through the stack every 30 seconds, so it's a simple matter to count to 5 over and over again. My oven timer beeps once at 5 minutes before the end of developing time and then when developing time is up.

Best,

Doremus

[Pere Casals]

I would recommend one tray size larger than the size of the film. That would be 11x14, but you could get away with 10x12. ...

Problem is that a larger tray will need more developer to cover well the sheet without problems, if using "one shot" this leads to waste developer for common dilutions. If one reuses developer then I see no problem with larger trays.

[xkaes]

Problem is that a larger tray will need more developer to cover well the sheet without problems, if using "one shot" this leads to waste developer for common dilutions. If one reuses developer then I see no problem with larger trays.
Using larger trays solves one problem and worsens another. It means more space wasted in the darkroom and it means more chemicals used. If it is just used once, then it is truly a waste. If it is used more than once, you need to somehow guess at its depletion for each subsequent use. Dilute it all you want, but the deletion rate will just increase -- again, at an unknown rate. With a tube, an 8x10 needs only about 1.5 ounces. Compare that to what is needed for an oversized tray.

[ndwgolf]

I'm ordering 8x10 trays and doing one sheet at a time :)

[LabRat]

I'm ordering 8x10 trays and doing one sheet at a time :)

If you are doing one sheet at a time, you can just use one tray by inserting the sheet into the tray with the developer, then pouring out the dev in the dark into a graduate when complete, then pouring stop, then fix from other grads and emptying them back into their grads, then washing in the same tray...

For single sheet processing, get a Cesco smooth bottom tray, as the sheet will tend to cling to the bottom of the tray during pouring out during chem changes, but be careful the film does not flop out of the tray by pouring out slowly... This does not require very much chem (and don't use too much as it becomes hard to pour)...

Steve K

[xkaes]

pouring out the dev in the dark into a graduate

Steve K

And to think I had to watch a Laurel & Hardy movie to see slapstick!

[LabRat]

And to think I had to watch a Laurel & Hardy movie to see slapstick!

Easy!!! Large mouthed grad/pouring corner of tray/small amount of chem... Easier than sex in the dark... ;-)

Steve K

[Willie]

If using 8x10 trays for 8x10 film you might find extra development on the edges of the frame.
One way to prevent it is to "Brush Develop" the film.

Pre-soak the negative and then put it into the developer, emulsion side up. Take a HAKE or Richardson Magic Brush and go gently side to side and then top to bottom. Then side to side and bottom to top. Slow and easy and you will dind no edge density problems as well as no scratching problems. You work in the dark listening to music(with recorded times on the music so you can hear them) so you are comfortable.

Easy to do and very clean negatives without surge marks or variable density in skies from development agitation screwups.

[Jac@stafford.net]

If using 8x10 trays for 8x10 film you might find extra development on the edges of the frame.
One way to prevent it is to "Brush Develop" the film. [...]

Cool! I'm pretty sure that's the method Kodak uses in their research labs.

[ndwgolf]

Can you not just put the neg in the 8x10 tray, shake the tray every now and then and then turn the neg over, shake some more then turn the neg over and just keep doing that for the 6 or 7 minutes until its ready for the stop bath??

[Jac@stafford.net]

No!

[Willie]

Can you not just put the neg in the 8x10 tray, shake the tray every now and then and then turn the neg over, shake some more then turn the neg over and just keep doing that for the 6 or 7 minutes until its ready for the stop bath??

Sure you can and you will have loads of extra density on all the edges. A larger tray or brush development or rotation of some sort. Trying a larger tray with brush development I get cleaner negatives than with the JOBO on 8x10 negatives. Downside for many would be One At A Time in the dark. I learned how to do this from my Uncle who learned brush development from Jorge Gasteazoro and normal tray development from Paula Chamlee.

A larger tray with one shot developer works well. Got onto Sandy King's Pyrocat HD and it is very inexpensive to mix and use. Much lower cost mixing my own rather than buying pre-packaged developers.

Hardest part of developing 8x10 in the dark was my tendency to try and hurry. My Uncle Dan got me away from that as I watched him shoot and process and come out with clean negatives every time. Finally figured out it was a lot faster to get a good result than have to go back and re-shoot because I screwed up the negative in processing.

[Pere Casals]

Can you not just put the neg in the 8x10 tray, shake the tray every now and then and then turn the neg over, shake some more then turn the neg over and just keep doing that for the 6 or 7 minutes until its ready for the stop bath??

I place the emulsion side up, to prevent damage by frictions to the bottom.