355mm G Claron f11 variant.

[Lachlan 717]

Came across a Schneider G Claron 355mm f11 lens.

I had no idea this lens existed, let alone anything about it.

Searching proved fruitless.

Anyone know anything about it?

Note::, this is not marked as a WA variant.

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[Dan Fromm]

It looks like it is in a #1. Schneider says it should be in a #3. They don't say it, but a #1 doesn't open as wide as a #3.

[Lachlan 717]

Thanks, Dan.

Definitely in a Copal #1.

First I've seen of this specification.

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[Luis-F-S]

Just a guess that they offered some f/11 lenses so it would fit into the smaller Copal 1 shutter instead of the larger Copal 3.

[Dan Fromm]

Most likely same glass, barrels different at the inner ends. #1 tube length is 20 mm, #3 is 32.

[Lachlan 717]

Interesting to know the difference in coverage.

But, at the STUPIDLY EXPENSIVE asking price, I'll never know!

[David Lobato]

Just a guess that they offered some f/11 lenses so it would fit into the smaller Copal 1 shutter instead of the larger Copal 3.

Also, it could be the same optics, but mounted in a Copal 1 shutter for the smaller size and weight, and lower cost.

[Paul Ewins]

That is interesting. I have a slightly earlier 355 G Claron - 13 35x xxx serial vs 13 67x xxx serial on this example - and the barrel is a stepped design so they have come up with a new barrel design for this version rather than make an adapter.

[Michael Kadillak]

That is interesting. I have a slightly earlier 355 G Claron - 13 35x xxx serial vs 13 67x xxx serial on this example - and the barrel is a stepped design so they have come up with a new barrel design for this version rather than make an adapter.

Why then are there not more examples of this out there in the consuming world? Did Schneider do a run and then pull the pin? Just surprised in all of the years I have followed the G Claron design this is a new one to me and likely many others as well.

[Lachlan 717]

Weren't there some counterfeit lenses around about 8 years ago? From memory, some of the Schneider APO range?

They had really bad fonts, I think.

Although, this font looks legit.

[Oren Grad]

Also, it could be the same optics, but mounted in a Copal 1 shutter for the smaller size and weight, and lower cost.

The glass elements of the 355/9 G-Claron are too large to fit in the cells shown.

[Dan Fromm]

I dunno, Oren, Schneider says the 355/9 G-Claron's front cell's OD is 80 mm, Benoit Suaudeau's site gives the Copal #1's OD as 73 mm.

Look at the eBay listing, http://www.ebay.com/itm/Schneider-Kreuznach-G-Claron-355mm-f11-Copal-NO-1-with-Original-box-3785-/172629527443 Don't be obnoxious about the listing. I put it away on archive.org at http://www.ebay.com/itm/Schneider-Kreuznach-G-Claron-355mm-f11-Copal-NO-1-with-Original-box-3785-/172629527443 and the images as archived are useless.

There are no shots of the lens straight on but I find it hard to reject the idea that the front cell's OD > shutter's OD.

[Oren Grad]

From the side views, it's hard to believe that front cell has a 10% larger OD than the shutter. And from many pictures of the f/9 version, it doesn't look to be the same front cell, just mounted in a smaller shutter instead - the housing appears to be a tighter fit to the glass. But could it be the existing glass shoehorned into a smaller shell for this mount? I thought not last night, but in fairness can't prove it just from eyeballing available pictures.

I wonder, with Michael, about why we haven't seen this before, but it's not as if I have access to the factory logs - who knows whether they did a one-off or a special run for somebody? So for now, consider me still puzzled.

[Phil Hudson]

Interesting....in my mind the late type black Copal 1 shutter with black face on cocking lever doesn't match the age of the lens as suggested by the serial number.

In my experience of watching and owning these things that style of blue box also puts it after the suggested 1980 manufacture date in my mind.....but I haven't owned many lenses from new so others might know better.

[Paul Ewins]

Unfortunately the published production lists stop at serial 12 86X XXX (March 1976) so there isn't anything to be found there - except that between October 1970 and November 1971 there were 4,600 150/11 G Clarons produced. Has anyone ever seen one of those? As they were being produced alongside the regular 150/9 G Clarons, but in much larger batches, I expect they were going into some sort of industrial machinery.

[Lachlan 717]

New one for me, Paul.

[Oren Grad]

Thanks, Paul.

I asked the seller about the filter size of the lens. He replied "about 68mm" - presumably 67mm, the closest standard size. The filter size for the 355/9 in #3 shutter is 77mm.

[Andy Eads]

This is supposition on my part about this specific example but...there was a class of reproduction cameras used in print shops that were vertical and compact. They used lenses of short focal lengths at apertures of f/10 and f/11. I owned a Nikkor 240mm f/10 WA that was rated at 0.00% distortion. It was incredibly sharp at all reproduction ratios. It did not have a shutter and it was expensive to fit one. Rodenstock and a few others that don't come to mind also had lenses of this sort. These lenses would not have been marketed to commercial photographers but to builders of compact copy cameras. That's my theory and I'm sticking to it till someone more knowledgeable puts me in my place. - Andy

[Lachlan 717]

There is another one listed on eBay at the moment.

Different SN and cheaper.

[Oren Grad]

There is another one listed on eBay at the moment.

Different SN and cheaper.

Nice catch! This one as well is in all-black Copal 1, with S/N 13,673,477, which is very close to the one you showed back in 2017. Evidence in favor of a one-off special run for a particular customer, perhaps?

On the Schneider S/N list floating around the web, this S/N dates to around 1980.

[Lachlan 717]

If I had one, given the lack of information on them, I’d market it as a NASA lens and bung the price sky high!

[lassethomas]

Unfortunately the published production lists stop at serial 12 86X XXX (March 1976) so there isn't anything to be found there - except that between October 1970 and November 1971 there were 4,600 150/11 G Clarons produced. Has anyone ever seen one of those? As they were being produced alongside the regular 150/9 G Clarons, but in much larger batches, I expect they were going into some sort of industrial machinery.

Yes, at last some info on that f11 150mm lens.
Happy this thread was revived. Well yes I have one of those f11 lenses.
Asked about it before in another thread
https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?151294-Schneider-Kreuznach-G-Claron-150mm-f11&p=1557067&viewfull=1#post1557067

Always said I would mount it and have a try.
Guess I have to now.
And if you think the f9 150mm lens is small and light, you almost need a microscope to see the f11 version.

[anoikodomeo]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/225333210890

I found someone else on eBay selling my G-Claron 355/11 lens.
It's amazing. Looking at the serial number and shape characteristics,
it is definitely my lens. This lens does not exist in Japan.
I am Korean and currently live in Seoul, South Korea.
I bought this lens in Japan, and he is stealing the photo for sale at the time.

Never buy this lens on eBay!!
This lens will never be shipped.

I have constantly notified this seller to delete the sale.
he never has an answer

Thankfully, he even arbitrarily set the price for my lenses.
I don't understand how this happens.

I've seen the G-Claron 355/11 lens a few times.
Serial number 13673*** exists in the zone.
I don't know what purpose Schneider made it for,
but it's compact and great as a photographic lens.

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[Lachlan 717]

Thanks, Anoikodomeo.

Do you have any capacity to test your lens’ coverage?

I suspect it will be less than the f9 as it’s in a Copal 1.

[anoikodomeo]

I don't have the ability to measure coverage.
However, although it is speculation, the coverage of this lens seems to be wide.
If I get a chance, I'll learn how to measure coverage and let you know.

[lassethomas]

I found 355/11 from a Japanese seller on eBay.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/225333210890

surprising. That lens on eBay is my G-Claron 355/11 lens.
I am Korean and I live in Seoul, South Korea.
The pictures posted on eBay are obviously my lens pictures.
I bought that lens in Japan, and these are the pictures that were posted when I bought the lens.

Don't buy the 355/11 lens on eBay.
Lenses will not be delivered to you.

I asked the Japanese seller to delete the sales post few days ago.
But he still has no answer.

He arbitrarily set the price for my lenses.

I've seen the G-Claron 355/11 lens a few times.
Serial number 13673*** exists in the zone.
I don't know what purpose Schneider made it for,
but it's compact and great as a photographic lens.

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Well, buying from a seller with a 91,8 % rating would be a gamble to say the least. One of the worst ratings I’ve seen.

[Andrea Gazzoni]

I found 355/11 from a Japanese seller on eBay.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/225333210890

surprising. That lens on eBay is my G-Claron 355/11 lens.
I am Korean and I live in Seoul, South Korea.
The pictures posted on eBay are obviously my lens pictures.
I bought that lens in Japan, and these are the pictures that were posted when I bought the lens.

Don't buy the 355/11 lens on eBay.
Lenses will not be delivered to you.

I asked the Japanese seller to delete the sales post few days ago.
But he still has no answer.


you can report it to Ebay.
just scroll down to about middle page on the right you'll find the "Report this item" link

[Lachlan 717]

I’ve asked him/her why they’re selling something that isn’t t theirs…

[anoikodomeo]

I’ve asked him/her why they’re selling something that isn’t t theirs…

I've asked him/her some questions since a few days ago, but no answers. Perhaps he/she won't answer.
I have reported this issue to eBay. I just hope this issue doesn't cause any victims.

[Jeff Keller]

Perhaps it was created to get some of the sales that the Fujinon A 360 f10 was targeting?

jeff

[Jim Noel]

I have 2 G-Clarons one in a Copal 1, and the other in a Copal 3. I plan to sell the Copal3 which belonged to my lately deceased friend and I'm trying to get money for his survivor.

[Lachlan 717]

Thanks, Jim.

Any way to compare their specs, especially image circle?

[anoikodomeo]

I couldn't measure the 355/11 image circle I had,
A repair shop in Osaka, Japan, advertises the image circle of the 355mm f11 as the same 444mm as the f9 version.
I can't entirely agree with this repair shop's opinion, but the image circle is wide.

This is a picture of the G-Claron lens I have.
It might be helpful to compare the size and shape of the lenses.
The filter diameter of the 355/11 is 67mm, the same as the 305.

It is my personal opinion and it has not been confirmed, but I think that the 355mm f11 version may be a limited edition for East Asian orders.
Or, it is highly likely that it was made to order for a special purpose.

The 355/11 lenses came with a shutter fitted from the factory.
The regularity of serial numbers for lenses and shutters is the same. It's just my guess anyway.

Again, don't buy the 355mm on eBay. It's a fake sale.
I reported this fake listing, but they don't seem to be taking any action.

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[anoikodomeo]

I measured the image circle of 355/11 today.

It measures approximately 440-450mm at infinity.

The 355/9 lens image circle is 444mm.

The image circles of both lenses seem to be the same or similar.

[Lachlan 717]

Interesting. Was that based on “acceptably sharp” or something else?

Given the f9’s MASSIVE I/C, wondering whether the f11 has a smaller one. Guess we’d need a side-by-side comparison.

[Joshua Dunn]

Not trying to hijack the this thread, however I have a 355 G-Claron f/9. I believe it is an older variant S/N 11 081 143 and is quite compact. What is unusual about this lens is the barrel threads are larger than a Copal 1 and smaller than a Copal 3. So I have a 355 G-Claron that I cannot readily screw into a shutter. Does anyone know anything about this version?

-Joshua

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[anoikodomeo]

I don't have a 355/9, but I own a 305mm.
The 305mm has an image circle wide enough to cover 11x14.
The Schneider catalog specifies the image circle of 305mm as 381mm.
From my measurements, the 355/11 has a larger image circle than the 305/9.
The 305mm measures 380-390mm and the 355/11 measures 440-450mm.
Of course, I can't guarantee that the measurements are very accurate,
but I think the 355/11 certainly seems to have a similar image circle to the 355/9.
This result is the result of focusing at infinity.
If anyone has owned both the 355/9 and 355/11 lenses,
I'd appreciate it if you could share your comparison results.

[Lachlan 717]

What is unusual about this lens is the barrel threads are larger than a Copal 1 and smaller than a Copal 3. So I have a 355 G-Claron that I cannot readily screw into a shutter. Does anyone know anything about this version?

-Joshua

Possibly Copur #2 or Compound #3 shutter.

[Paul Ewins]

Not trying to hijack the this thread, however I have a 355 G-Claron f/9. I believe it is an older variant S/N 11 081 143 and is quite compact. What is unusual about this lens is the barrel threads are larger than a Copal 1 and smaller than a Copal 3. So I have a 355 G-Claron that I cannot readily screw into a shutter. Does anyone know anything about this version?

-Joshua

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Your lens is recorded in the production lists as a prototype ("muster"), one of a batch of three produced on 28 January 1969. Interestingly there is also a batch of three prototype 355/9 S-Clarons produced on the next day. I've no idea what an S-Claron was meant to be.

[Joshua Dunn]

Paul,

That's actually pretty cool! Can I ask where you found that information? I would be interested in seeing some technical data on the lens if it exists. The lens has a lot of haze in it. I was considering getting it overhauled. Your input makes me want to do that more.

-Joshua

[Paul Ewins]

The information is from a series of books by Hartmut Thiele called "Grosses Fabrikationbuch Schneider-Kreuznach" which is basically a printed spreadsheet with all of the lenses produced between March 1918 (serial number 21602) and March 1976 (serial number 12 862 325). They are sorted in serial number order which is more or less date order. You get the basic information: name, focal length, aperture, batch size and serial number range and then there are a few columns of extra remarks that may be useful. In this case there is only the word "Muster" (sample/pattern/prototype) in the "customer" column to identify it. Thiele's books are self published and the Schneider ones don't appear to be available anywhere. He has also published similar books on Zeiss, Voigtlander, Rodenstock, Steinheil amongst others.

I don't have much more to add other than there was a previous batch of three prototypes in March 1968 and the first full production batch (200 units) looks to be in June 1971.

[Joshua Dunn]

Thanks Paul. It's kinda cool to have such a rare lens!

-Joshua

[anoikodomeo]

Interesting. Was that based on “acceptably sharp” or something else?

Given the f9’s MASSIVE I/C, wondering whether the f11 has a smaller one. Guess we’d need a side-by-side comparison.

Luckily I bought a 355/9 a few days ago.
I compared the image circles of the 355/11 and 9, and they are exactly the same.
The weight with shutter is 1,465g for the 355/9 and 980g for the 355/11.
The 355/9 is a good lens. But the 355/11 also has many advantages.


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