View Full Version : Recommended dilution for rotary processing

Ron Marshall
15-Jun-2005, 20:16
I just bought a Jobo 3010 and I am trying to standardize for N, N-1, N+1, etc.

I am using HC110 Dil. B, 6.5 minutes at 20 deg to develop FP4+. I think dil. B it is too high a conc. since my negs are too grainy, and it gives me an ASA of about 250. Contrast is pretty good though.

I would appreciate hearing what dilutions others use, and also alternative developers that they have had success with for rotary processing.

ronald moravec
15-Jun-2005, 20:38
More dilution to slow things down will make more grain. Try D76 undiluted. The problem with the 3010 drum is you can`t get enough diluted developer in. At 1:1 you only get 4 1/2 oz of undiluted developer in the drum when you fill it with 9 oz. 4.5 oz is too little for 10 sheets.

I now use the Jobo and 3010 for 4x5 color neg only now. I use film hangars or a 4x5 Nikor tank.

Some use rodinal, but I don`t know how it behaves with continuous agitation. PMK oxidises too fast. Rolo Polo is compounded for continuous.

Xtol is also possible. But that is another Kodak product that will soon go away. At least you can make D76 easily.

BTW, HC110 will go away when Kodak quits selling black and white film which is right around the corner. They will just drop the bomb some day.

Start looking at HP5 or FP4 and Ilford`s ID11. FP4 is around 7.0 min continuous in ID11. You will love it. I use it at EI100 for 8 min at 68 with hangars or Nikor tank . 7 is my best guess for continuous or go with 8 and a presoak, but I don`t recommend that. Neither does Ilford.

Paul Butzi
15-Jun-2005, 20:58
Development times/temps for n-2 thru n+2 for TMX and TMY in a variety of developers at: www.butzi.net/articles/tuning1.htm (http://www.butzi.net/articles/tuning1.htm).

That doesn't help you with times for fp4+ but does give some indication of times/temps for other films in a Jobo 3010 drum. That web page also outlines a somewhat more efficient way of getting N-2, n-1, n, n+1, n+2 than what most people use. Three trial runs is enough to give you all the data needed.

I disagree that it's a problem with more dilute developers. I don't know where Ronald got the idea that you can only put 9 oz of developer in the drum, but Jobo advised me that it was fine to put one liter of developer in the drum. I've been doing that for years with no problems at all.

I've used D-76, Rodinal, Tmax-RS, XTOL, Microdol-X (among others) successfully to develop film in the 3010.

Oren Grad
15-Jun-2005, 21:01
I use D-76 diluted 1+1 for 4x5 or 5x7 film developed in a Jobo 3006 Expert drum, and undiluted D-76 for all sheet film sizes 8x10 and larger, developed in the 3005 Expert drum or one of the large print drums (the latter for ULF sizes). I just vary the time if I want to change the contrast.

If I were using a 3010 drum for 4x5 I'd probably stick with undiluted D-76, to keep the solution volume and hence the overall weight down, since the 3010 is pretty heavy just by itself.

15-Jun-2005, 22:01
For what it's worth, I use D76 straight or 1:1 in a Jobo 3010. To minimize variations in time, I'd like to avoid shorter times, say anything shorter than 6 minutes, so more often than not go with 1:1. I use TXP mostly, sometimes HP5+, or any film I can get for cheap. I am not particularly fussy, though I like a consistent process to minimize mistakes, and also so that I have an established baseline.

ronald moravec
15-Jun-2005, 22:02
The info came from a small text book, hardbound, on the jobo system. Putting one liter in the drum causes great strain on the mechanism becuse of the weight. I`m sticking to the recommended quantities.

Paul Butzi
15-Jun-2005, 23:03
at www.jobo-usa.com/products/3000.htm (http://www.jobo-usa.com/products/3000.htm) Jobo list the minimum and maximum capacities of the expert series drum.

The 3010 is listed as having a minimum of 210ml and a maximum of 1000 ml (one liter).

Joseph O'Neil
16-Jun-2005, 07:11
Here's my formula, for what it is worth.

I jsue a Jobo 2500 drum for 4x5. Two rells. Although I can load up for 12 sheets on two reels, I seem to get better resluts with only 8 sheets - 4 per reel.

I use an old Unidrum motorozed roller base for my Jobo drum.

I shoot mostly Tri-X and HP5. Spot metering. I set my meter to 200 ASA. for both films.

All temps for 68-70F

Water pre-soak - tap water - 5 minutes.

700mm ml of distilled water, and 10ml of pure HC-110 syrup right out of the bottle. I throughly mix it up while I am pre-soaking.

dump pre-soak, pour in my developer, start timer. As a base time I let it go for 10 minutes, but here is where i play with it sometimes I'll go 11 minutes, even 12 - depends on my notes at the itme, what i am shooting for, etc,e tc. As the saying goes, your milage will vary. Also, I sometiems use Forte Pan 400 sheet film - it is very nice, but it needs a base time of 12 minutes,a nd sometimes I let it go 13 or even 14 minute s- agian, depends on what you are going for.

1 minute tap water rinse. Inever use ascid stop, just plain tap water.

3-4 minute fix. I use a non-hardening fixer. I let the fix & water mix goin onteh rotary drum as wqell.

Wash - I change the water eveyr minute (dump, fill, dump) and use hte roatary base for hte first 2-03 washes, then pull out the film and wash it more conventially.

There you go, works good for me. I love HC-110, but I find it too strong as well in Dil B, just overkills everything, IMO. But weakened down seems to work best for me, regardless of what film I am using.

The only real critical factor I have found is my local tap water does not seem to "get along" with any developer - T-Max, HC-110, Rodinal, etc, etc. I can use tap water for all else, but I always use distilled water for the devleoper mix. Always one shot too. This seems to have elminiated a pile of problems I have had in the past.

good luck

Richard Littlewood
16-Jun-2005, 09:30
D-76 diluted 1+1 is good in a Jobo, I've found FP-4 gives very good printable negs (condenser) with a time of around 8 mins, 68f, film at 80 asa. I've just started to use D-76 at 1+2 dilution in a Jobo, and maybe it's me , but the negs do seem sharper with a sharper grain. I'm going to stick with this dilution for that reason, but that means more solution in the drum - 2553 drum, 900ml of w/s. This gives that little motor something to do alright. FP-4 at 1+2 works out around 10 mins.
I dont know if this is technically correct, but I reckon some developers really suit the Jobo and I'm convinced D-76 improves in various ways over the agitation/stand method.

Stan. Laurenson-Batten
16-Jun-2005, 14:44
I use the Jobo 3010 5X4 and 3005 for 10X8 and the Cpp2 processor.

For 5X4 I use Delta 100 film rated at 100, developed in Aqulux 2, for ten mins at 20 deg. c dilution of 1:9 rotation set at 'P' and get a very good enlarger prints with good tonal values.

For 10X8 I use T-Max 100 rated at 200, developed in T-Max RS developer working strength solution, 300ml to 500ml at 20 deg. c. for ten mins., rotation set at 4. I get crisp negatives that enlarge or contact print well.

Stan. Laurenson-Batten
16-Jun-2005, 14:58
The minimum solution for Jobo drums has been increased from 210 to 330. This volume is for
colour development.
For B&W it is prudent to increase the minimum chemical volume to about 500ml.

Source notificaton by Jobo 2005.

Henry Ambrose
16-Jun-2005, 15:59
I use Xtol 1:3 for FP4 (rated at 100) 4x5 in Jobo 2500 drums with wonderful results smooth and sharp, not grainy. N for me is 9-10 minutes so varying development either way is no big deal. Be sure to use at least 100ml of stock developer per 80 square inches of film. In my opinion, using more developer than the bare minimum suggested guarantees absolutely consistent results. Trying to squeeze to much work out of your chemicals is a bad idea. Your pictures are worth the extra nickel!

Paul Ewins
16-Jun-2005, 16:47
I've been using ID11 @ 1:1 for FP4 and HP5 and haven't had any problems at all. I'm using a 3010 drum on a CPP. I chose 1:1 because this made for a reasonably economical one shot process. For 10 sheets of 4x5 I need a minimum of 250ml of ID11, so at 1:1 that's 500ml of working solution which matches Jobo's minimum chemistry volume for 10 sheets of B&W film.

If you look at the online instructions, http://www.jobo-usa.com/instructions/instructions_misc_expert_drums.htm, you'll see that there are different minimum volumes for E6 and B&W.

I prewarm the drum, but don't pre-soak; i.e. run it for 5 minutes in the tempering bath without any liquid inside. Between the developer and fix I do three quick washes (fill and dump in around 30 - 40 sec) and then after fixing I run one or two washes on the processor before taking the drum off and running it under the tap. I'll fill and dump another three times, letting it sit for a couple of minutes between fills. All the washes are straight tap water (which is fairly good here), the washes on the machine use water at process temperature while under the tap it is cold water.

During summer I'll run as high as 26 C, using ice packs to cool the water, the rest of the time it is at the standard 20 C (68 F?)

hope that helps,


Ron Marshall
18-Jun-2005, 11:53
Thanks for all of the responses, I have established my times for N-3 to N+2.

I switched to D76 1:1 and it gives me finer grain and an ASA of 125.

I used the approach suggested by Paul Butzi (thanks for the resources on your site).

The 5 min. development gave a gamma of 0.47, 10 min. 0.81, 15 min. 1.0.

For scanning I assumed that it would be better to have slightly lower contrast, (I can always increase it later in PS if I need to) so I picked a gamma of 6.2 for N development. Is this a good choice for scanning?