PDA

View Full Version : Kodak's Other Big Announcement Today



Ted Harris
15-Jun-2005, 17:12
With all the discussion today about the disappearance of Kodak paper many of us may have missed an equally important announcement about the future of the “Great Yellow Box.” See the following:

“Creo, a subsidiary of Kodak since June 15, 2005, has key strengths in imaging, software, and digital printing plate technology. The leading provider of graphic communications solutions worldwide, the Kodak Graphic Communications Group (GCG) offers image capture systems; professional color, copydot, and high-speed document scanning systems; inkjet printing and proofing systems; workflow and color management software; thermal imaging devices for film, plates, and proofs; high-quality proofing media, printing plates, and recording film; on-demand color and black-and-white printing systems; data storage products; and professional services. The GCG unites the rich technological heritage of five companies: Kodak Polychrome Graphics, NexPress, Kodak Versamark, Encad, and Creo.”

Kodak’s acquisition of Creo has been in the works since January and had to jump a lot of hurdles in this country, Canada and South Africa. They got final US approval from the Justice Department early this month and the final approval from South Africa yesterday. So, while divesting themselves of the paper division, the acquisition of Creo -- manufacturers of the Leaf digital backs and the high-end EverSmart scanners, puts them squarely back in a leadership position in the commercial/professional digital and graphic arts world.
Interesting, perhaps they are not so stupid.

Paul_5410
15-Jun-2005, 17:33
Another cornerstone in Kodak's Digital Empire. I'm going into shock that Kodak, of all folks, is abandoning the basic needs of b&w photographers. They could start scaling down operations to meet a more limited market, the leadership is following the "pop" culture of digital.

George Eastman would just have to kick some booty if he were about these days!

Let's face it paper and ink are cheaper to produce and in great demand of every desktop computer system. . .

Paul

lee\c
15-Jun-2005, 18:02
Creo is a big name in the graphic arts industry. It will be interesting to see if Kodak ruins Creo too. Their market is in the metal plate imaging with their laser imagesetters. The big buzz word is Direct to Plate or Computer to Plate. By passes the negative stage and stripping stage.

leec

Brian Ellis
15-Jun-2005, 18:23
"They could start scaling down operations to meet a more limited market."

Companies the size of Kodak can't just "scale down" to meet a more limited market. Kodak has more than 60,000 employees, it has millions of stockholders (directly and indirectly through pension plans), it probably has billions in invested capital, a huge distribution network, a big r&d department, etc. etc. To support that kind of an "infrastructure" a company can't sit back and serve "a more limited market" while its core business dwindles down to a cottage industry. Companies like Kodak have to go where the big markets and the big money are. Obviously that's not b&w paper. The only thing I don't get is why they didn't discontinue chemicals too.

paulr
15-Jun-2005, 18:39
"Companies the size of Kodak can't just "scale down" to meet a more limited market."

All very true. And it wouldn't be their style. The future of traditional materials won't be with companies like Kodak, and we always had reason to predict this. It's going to come increasingly from a cottage industry of companies like chicago albumen works, bostick and sullivan, and a bunch of others i haven't heard of yet or that don't exist yet. this can be a very good thing ... a lot easier for a niche group to influence the decisions of a niche company.

Peter Roberts
15-Jun-2005, 19:05
Ha ha! This is the end.

tim atherton
15-Jun-2005, 19:11
"Creo is a big name in the graphic arts industry. It will be interesting to see if Kodak ruins Creo too. Their market is in the metal plate imaging with their laser imagesetters. The big buzz word is Direct to Plate or Computer to Plate. By passes the negative stage and stripping stage. "

Unfortunately Kodak has a history of doing this and over the years have bought up a number of such "cutting edge" companies or products to try and keep pace with the market and changes in the industry. In almost every instance they have demonstrated a singular lack of understanding of said markets, run the companeis/products to destruction and then abandoned/sold them off at fire sale prices in some kind of restructuring.

Doesn't bode well for users of CREO products in the long run, but I bet the owners/directors have made a pretty penny

Jay M. Packer
15-Jun-2005, 19:45
Mr. Pace:

Could you elaborate a little on what has ended, and therefore what (if anything) remains? Your considerable experience and expertise in the graphic art and photographic fields entitles you to some public reflections on the historic significance of today's developments. I look forward to hearing your thoughts. Thank you.

-- J. Packer

Paul_5410
15-Jun-2005, 19:50
Hello Brian,

. . .you are very correct about a corporation the size of Kodak. However, of the numerous plants the company operates a b&w division should be possible? In this situtation I feel they are chasing the dollar and abandoning their roots with little or no regard for a market they created.

On the good news side, I am seeing more b&w sheet film producers slowly surfacing. Some of these may be buying the production equipment from the big guys as they leave it behind.

Oh well I just got a box of J&C Photo 8X10 Classic 200 with a high silver base content I am looking forward to shooting it! Paul

Phong
15-Jun-2005, 20:04
I agree with Brian. For better or for worse, technology moves on, and if anything, Kodak has lingered a bit too long on film products. They need to position themselves firmly as a leader in the imaging industry. As for their roots, well, IBM got rid of their typewriters didn't they ?

It's really very bad timing for me, as I just ordered a bunch of AZO, thinking that I might try it, after seeing some gorgeous prints from Paula Chamlee and Michael Smith recently. Maybe I should cancel the order. And I am starting my 2nd annual workshop at NESOP next week on large format photography and B&W printing too. Oh well.

Donald Qualls
15-Jun-2005, 20:07
I have to disagree with a comment a way back up the thread that "George Eastman would be kicking some booty" over the current course of Kodak.

I think, rather, he'd be leading the charge. He didn't build up the Kodak brand by making Daguerreotype plates while everyone else was selling dry gelatin plates; he did it by inventing flexible film and consumer photography. Today, he wouldn't be spending money trying to keep B&W going, he'd be forging ahead in digital -- though I doubt he'd do it by buying other companies; rather, he'd grow the expertise within the company.

Whether he'd precipitately abandon B&W is another issue -- the "old" Kodak we all knew as youngsters still made film packs into the 1970s, and didn't discontinue 122 "postcard" film until almost 1980; 620 lasted until around 1990, almost forty years after the last Kodak 620 format camera rolled off the line. But neither did the "old" Kodak try to keep those formats going once sales dropped enough it no longer paid to cut that width, or print that backing paper, or fabricate those spools. C-22 wasn't supported for too many years after C-41 came along, even though there surely were those who said their favorite Kodacolor-X was superior to this newfangled Kodacolor II.

This isn't a new way of doing business for Kodak -- but like everything else related to digital technology, it happens a bit faster than those of us who grew up before computers were on every desk are used to. So, Kodak is jumping off the B&W train -- and they're giving us warning by dropping paper (slower selling and less profitable than film, most likely) first. We can still get lots of B&W papers, and if all else fails, Kodak does still make their monochrome RA-4 material (not archival, but at least it's B&W). And in large format, we still have the option to print on salted paper, or albumen, or POP, or cyanotype, or platinum, even when Azo and Polycontrast IV and whatever else are gone -- even if the Ilford and Oriental papers follow Kodak down the drain and we never manage to get that green cast out of the Fomabrom...

Paul Butzi
15-Jun-2005, 21:07
One thing that distresses me so far is the lack of info on spec sheets compared to Kodak products, especially with respect to poly contrast papers. Kodak broke down dichro settings for different 'popular' heads.

One of the problems is that there are rather a lot of variables involved, and it's difficult for the manufacturer to account for all of them. If you want accurate, speed matched filtration settings, you need to do your own calibration using your enlarger, your development process (developer, developer dilution, time, temp). Any minor change will throw the speed matching out of whack.

I used to redo calibration curves for the papers I used when I changed the bulb in my enlarger. Changing from an old bulb to a new bulb was a noticeable difference in both contrast and speed matching.

As always, two good resources are the method I developed (read it at www.butzi.net/articles/vcce.htm (http://www.butzi.net/articles/vcce.htm) and the method in Ralph Lambrecht's book, the title of which I have, alas, forgotten. "Way Beyond Monochrome"? It's around here somewhere but I can't find it.

Oren Grad
15-Jun-2005, 21:38
One thing that distresses me so far is the lack of info on spec sheets compared to Kodak products, especially with respect to poly contrast papers. Kodak broke down dichro settings for different 'popular' heads.

Ilford does provide this information, but it's only on the insert included in each box of paper, not in the technical data booklets posted on their website.

Agfa provides separate suggested settings for Kodak and Durst-type filtration systems; the information is included both in their technical data booklet and in the package insert.

e
16-Jun-2005, 09:47
Regarding Azo, I just spoke to Michael Smith and Azo should be available for a couple of years yet (at current usage) as the warehoused stock is high now. Michael also said he was working on bringing a replacement for Azo to market soon. So not to worry. Emile/www.deleon-ulf.com

Bruce E. Rathbun
16-Jun-2005, 15:51
As an avid Azo user I felt the pain of the plant closing last month. Maybe Michael A. Smith can bring on a new replacement for Azo. What I fail to understand is how Kodak will agree to produce a replacement for Azo when all Kodak paper is being discontinued. This does not sound like the bottom line thinking that Kodak has been known for over the past few years. Sad would be the departure of Azo for the fine art world. Are the contact printers destined for more the old school hand coated processes?

-Bruce

Phong
16-Jun-2005, 15:58
> What I fail to understand is how Kodak will agree ...

I assume the new vendor won't be Kodak. We'll see.

tim atherton
16-Jun-2005, 16:04
and story on NPR

Morning Edition, June 16, 2005 · Photographers across the country have complained of getting harassed by law enforcement officials citing security concerns since the September 11 terrorist attacks.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4705698

tim atherton
16-Jun-2005, 16:05
darn - wrong thread...