Prontor shutter slow speeds too fast

[bizarrius]

Ok so i was playing around with my newly acquired camera and lens and i realized that the slow speeds are off. anything under 1/10 sounds like 1/25 (1/1 1/2 1/5)
being given that nobody in cyprus knows how to fix anything like this (even though my fixing skills are fine and i can open if i have a guide on what i should do to fix it) what do you suggest i do?
is there a cable release mechanical timer that i can buy and let it handle my slow speeds through bulb? (i will need it for longer exposures anyway like 2 3 4 seconds etc.
should i send the lens somewhere to be fixed? (i wont before i buy another lens to take pictures with, i'm addicted) if so, where can i send it to? i am in europe so a european cla wont be bad.
should i try to fix it on my own? anywhere on the internet showing me what to lubricate when i open the lens? what i feel is that when im above 1 2 and 5, it doesn't pull something like it does when i go above other speeds (you know that small bzzz you hear when you change speeds)

thanks in advance.

[IanG]

You can rig up a shutter speed tester quite easily, do a search online. I wouldn't go by sound as the Protor SVS shutter used for the 203mm f7.7 Ektar sounds quite different to a Compur or Copal shutter. Shutters go slower with age (like most of us here) not faster :D

Ian

[bizarrius]

but but. this doesn't sound like a 1 second exposure at all! what do you suggest i do to check? :) if the lens is fine i will sleep well tonight :)

[bizarrius]

ok its confirmed my slow speeds are funky. i just developed a few sheets and everything that was on 1/2 1/1 1/5 is underexposed :)

any ideas where or how to fix the lens? thanks

[Bob Salomon]

ok its confirmed my slow speeds are funky. i just developed a few sheets and everything that was on 1/2 1/1 1/5 is underexposed :)

any ideas where or how to fix the lens? thanks

Your lens is fine, your shutter needs repair. There are a few camera repair shops on Cyprus. Why not use one?

https://www.google.com/search?q=canmera%20repair%20in%20cyprus&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

[bizarrius]

none of these guys wants to fix anything thats has to do with mechanical equipment. I've sent a mail to camera clinic because i know he knows how to but he doesn't do the job any more maybe he can help me.

[bizarrius]

he asks 100 euro for a service if nothing else is needed. i can buy the prontor svs shutter for 25 euros on ebay plus 7 euros shipping to cyprus. thats what i need right?
why would i bother with it? also, can't i just use the lens and deal with slow speeds on B? i'd rather spend the money on a 135mm lens and keep this as is

[IanG]

You need to be careful there were quite a few variations of the Prontor SVS shutters, I think this was the only LF lens to use one. I have 2 or 3 spares and the release arms etc are designed for linking to cameras, or even missing and the cocking mechanism & release is on the back (Zeiss Ikon Contina etc).

Personally I'd find a Compur #0 but again some have no cable release or preview lever so you need to get the right one and you would need to calibrate a new aperture scale, but you'd have a far more usable lens. That's from experience of having one 203mm Ektar in a Prontor SVS and a second in a Compur #1.

Ian

[bizarrius]

so if i buy a compur shutter the elements will fit? is it that easy?
anyway the lens is usable 100% if i know which speeds aren't correct. i can compensate my speeds and use bulb until i fix the lens. maybe i'll find a good shutter and change it at some point. the lens is for portraits anyway so i might not use the slower speeds that much (especially when i get a 135mm for landscapes)

thank you for your time.

[IanG]

Yes your 203mm f7.7 Ektar is Mount 370, originally they were sold in a Kodak modified Epsilon shutter, then the Prontor SVS and finally the last ones made were in the last version of the Synchro Compur but are quite rare, all those shutters are #0 compatible. These British made Ektars differ from the US ones which weren't #0 compatible.

Ian

[Cor]

Should work (but please get conformation from other people as well). The most important thing is that when swapping shutters that the overall length of the shutter/lens combination DOES NOT change (there is a bit more to it, oa the distance from the inside glass elements to the aperture). The lens threads of a Prontor, Compur or Copal O should be identical AFIK (probably there are exceptions). If Dan Fromm does not respond try to PM him, he is very knowledgeable (as Ian is too..;-)..)

Good luck,

Cor


so if i buy a compur shutter the elements will fit? is it that easy?
anyway the lens is usable 100% if i know which speeds aren't correct. i can compensate my speeds and use bulb until i fix the lens. maybe i'll find a good shutter and change it at some point. the lens is for portraits anyway so i might not use the slower speeds that much (especially when i get a 135mm for landscapes)

thank you for your time.

[IanG]

Should work (but please get conformation from other people as well). The most important thing is that when swapping shutters that the overall length of the shutter/lens combination DOES NOT change (there is a bit more to it, oa the distance from the inside glass elements to the aperture). The lens threads of a Prontor, Compur or Copal O should be identical AFIK (probably there are exceptions). If Dan Fromm does not respond try to PM him, he is very knowledgeable (as Ian is too..;-)..)

Good luck,

Cor

There are quite a few #0 compatible shutters, Copal, Compur (rimset), Prontor SVS & Press Prontpr are the commonest, but there's Proto, Ibsor, Seiko, Epsilon, Trikon, AGI, all the same threads and tube length. I have them all :D - there may be one or two others like Tempur, Pullen etc. The only variation is one of the Polaroid shutters which has a shorter tube length. That's excluding the specialist shutters I mentioned earlier which are an integral part of some cameras.

Ian

[Dan Fromm]

Cor, most of what I know about shutters' dimensions comes from: http://www.suaudeau.eu/memo/pratique/Les_obturateurs_centraux.html

OP, any #0 that has a cable release socket and a T speed or a blade arrestor/open to focus lever should do for you and y'r 203/7.7 Ektar now in Prontor SVS. If you can measure shutter speeds, do what many of us do while taking our time sending a shutter to the shop. Make a calibration table, carry it with the lens and use it.

Note that press (self-cocking) shutters have the diaphragm closer to the end of the rear tube than do cock-and-shoot shutters. This can be a problem with lenses whose rear cell goes deep into the shutter. Your lens' cells should go into, e.g., a #0 Copal, with no problem. I'd avoid #0 Prontor Press shutters as used in, e.g., microscope cameras because these are dial set (shutter speeds set by a dial on the face of the shutter) and y'r lens' front cell will hit the dial. I have a 203/7.7 Kodak Anastigmat (uncoated early version of your lens), just checked.

OP, there's a law of nature to the effect that all used shutters' speeds are off. Until proven otherwise, a used shutter needs to be overhauled. Simply getting another old shutter probably won't solve your problem. Think about sending y'r shutter abroad to be overhauled. This page http://www.collection-appareils.fr/general/html/reparateurs.php has a list of camera repairmen in France. I don't know how well it is maintained. Also ask on the French LF forum www.galerie-photo.info. If I were in Europe I'd check to see whether Gerard Metrot (people on galerie-photo can give you his e-mail) is still active.

[bizarrius]

so i opened up the lens, lubbed the speeds and it didn't fix anything, then i fiddled about with the cap and i have the 1 second speed working but not 1/2 and 1/5. everything else is on spot also. something is fishy with this shutter. :)
im guessing the cap wont guide the speed governor correctly?

[bizarrius]

Hello and sorry for so many messages.

I found an Anastigmat 89mm on a syncho compur r shutter that is really cheap but everything is working properly. now i know the lens is bad but i can take the shutter if it fits my ektar.
Does it fit ? what do i look in that chart to know that it fits? should i go for it? i might switch elements and use the bad 89mm lens for fun too. but i want my ektar to have a proper shutter. i love how it performs.

[IanG]

The only 89mm Anastigmat I know is the 89mm f6.3 WA which came in a Compur #0 shutter so the right size but the early ones in a Synchro-Compur have a self timer rather than a preview lever. I've just seen one for £299/$375 which is way more than they are worth as they were notoriously poor quality, a friend had one and warned me not to buy one. They usually sell for less than £60.

Having no aperture preview isn't so important but it's quicker if you have one, later ray 89m WA lenses were in the more modern Compur (last type) with a good preview lever,

Ian

[bizarrius]

Ian i can't thank you enough for your time and knowledge. :) i owe you alot.

the lens is this: 163332
its only 49 pounds and i've sent a mail asking if everything is working properly and it does. all speeds are fine etc.
i know the lens is bad. i am just looking on how to make my kodak 203mm a completely usable lens.
i don't mind the preview lever as my prontor doesn't have one either. i just lock Bulb to focus. :)

btw update on my shutter. i've disassembled the speed governor and nothing was fixed so when i screwed it back on i noticed that it went clunkier with more screwing. so i unscrewed the governor half a turn and now it works just fine. all speeds are spot on. even 1/2 1/5 and 1/10. this is really weird. i don't know how much will it last like this but i am only hoping :)

[IanG]

Yes that's the lens I assumed you meant :D The shutter's fine it's the right size but you will need to make an aperture scale.

Ian

[bizarrius]

aperture scale won't be something since i already have one on my prontor ill just set to each aperture i want measure diameter and copy :)
i went to the fields today and took some shots and my speeds were working fine. lets hope it will last. but i will change the shutter at some point. i wanna be confident with my gear. sheet film aint cheap and i can only order from abroad so it also takes some time until i get to it.