Semi-Stand development and uneven spots

[Scott Davis]

I just did my first batch of film using semi-stand development techniques. First, it is AMAZING. Your negatives look like they are etched glass, not film. I'm definitely going to keep pursuing this technique. For those curious, I'm shooting 4x5 Ilford FP4+ @ ISO 64, then developing in PMK Pyro 1:1:175 for 1 hour, with 15 sec agitation every 15 mins.

This question, then, is for those who have more experience with this. I found on a number of my negatives that I had some uneven underdeveloped spots near the corners of my film. Not every sheet was affected though. I developed ten sheets in a Yankee Agitank. When I first looked at the film, I saw the spots, and so I looked for a pattern to see if it was relative to the position in the rack. It did not appear to be the case, as on one side of the center post, the outermost few negatives had these spots, but on the other side, they did not.

I doubt it is a film issue, as I believe all the sheets in the batch came from the same box. I know that this development technique sometimes has issues with uneven development, most likely to raise their head in sky areas or other continuous tone areas, but this isn't the case here (at least as far as sky areas are concerned). I'll post scans as soon as my negs are dry so you can see exactly what I'm talking about.

In any case, any insights would be appreciated.

[Andrew O'Neill]

I use semi-stand quite often. Film is always in vertical orientation. I develop in tubes. Films always get agitation for first minute then let stand for 15 minutes. I pull the film out of the tubes and slip them back in upside down after every 15 minutes. I ALWAYS expose extras because there is no sure fire way in preventing uneven development or mottling. I use the same film as you as well as HP5+ both in 4x5 and 8x10. Developer is Pyrocat-HD 10ml + 10ml + 500ml water for 1 hour (for N, longer for N+). I rarely use stand if there are large areas of even tone such as sky. Cutting back to 5 minute stand still results in extreme sharpness. That is what I do for all my negatives now. 5 minutes stand is enough. What I really like about stand development is extremely fine details are enhanced. The effect is quite similar to unsharp masking.
Just remember to shoot extras and you'll be okay.
When you get a moment why don't you post those negs so we can have a look?

[j.e.simmons]

I've been using the technique for about a year now. I use tubes in a bucket of developer and find sometimes that I have uneven development at the ends of the negatives. It did not happed with all negatives. I eliminated the problem when I began agitating very vigorously.

I think there can be a problem with uneven agitation using the semi-stand methods. I would suspect your problem comes from something to do with agitation - perhaps developer swirling during agitation, developer not circulating properly, etc. Can you increase the speed and intensity of the agitation?

Good luck. I agree it's a great technique, but it's not as easy or foolproof as it appears.
John

[Scott Davis]

call me crazy, but I thought the whole point of the semi-stand technique was extended development time in an extremely dilute developer with minimal agitation for the purpose of maximizing local edge effects. Wouldn't increasing the agitation defeat the purpose of the technique? I'm going off the methodology as expounded by Steve Sherman in View Camera magazine. I know my one variation from this is using multiple sheets in a daylight tank - he does one sheet of 7x17 at a time in a big cylinder, and uses a Jobo tube cleaning sponge to do his agitation.

[brook]

There is a loooong thread on this at michaelandpaula.com in the developing film section of the Azo fourm, lots from Steve Sherman, Sandy king and others. Tons of info.
I think you may find less development artifacts with a catachol developer like Pyrocat HD. Pyrogallol developers like PMK are likly to give you trouble.

[j.e.simmons]

Scott, I'm speaking of increasing the intensity of agitation during the short time agitation occurs. Originally, I was simply jiggling the tank containing the developer for 10-seconds every three minutes (or sometimes 5 minutes). The developer obviously was agitated more on the ends of the film. I fixed the problem by vigorously lifting and reinserting the film in the developer - I did it for the same 10-second period of time. The result was to get the same agitation across the film.

Sandy King tells me he develops in closed tubes (mine are open ended). He agitates by completely turning his tubes over and alternating which end is at the top. That sounds like fairly vigorous agitation to me.

This may or may not have anything to do with your problem, but I suspect you're getting uneven agitation. More vigororus agitation solved it for me.

I use Pyrocat HD 5:3:300 - I'd fear my technique would not work well with a developer prone to oxidation as I understand PMK is. I'd recomment the thread at Michael and Paula's if you haven't read it. I'd give you a link, but their site doesn't have permalinks.

[Scott Davis]

Here is an example of what I was getting...

http://www.theflyingcamera.com/photos/UnevenDevSample.jpg

The red arrows indicate the problem areas.

In looking at the film rack that holds the negatives in the tank, I think that it may be the guardrails that hold the negatives in place that are blocking the flow. I'll try more vigorous agitation on my next batch, and also a change in the direction of my agitation. If neither of those solutions work, I'll try Pyrocat HD.

[sanking]

"Sandy King tells me he develops in closed tubes (mine are open ended). He agitates by completely turning his tubes over and alternating which end is at the top. That sounds like fairly vigorous agitation to me. "

I use both closed tubes and open ended tubes for semi-stand agitation, depending on size of film. For 4X5 and 5X7 I use open end tubes that are placed in a 11X14" print drum filled to a point above the top of tubes with developer. Agitation is achieved by removing the tubes and turning them on end. Large sheet film is developed in closed end tubes which are turned on end at each agitation cycle.

My normal development procedure is extreme minimal agitation, in which the total time of development is divided into four equal periods, with agitation for 1.5 minutes at the beginning of the first period, and for 10-15 seconds at the beginning of the second, third and final period. This is preceded by a pre-soak of five minutes.

[Steve Sherman]

Scott,

Looking at the scan I am thinking whatever method you are using to hold the film is causing unwanted pressure at the corners of various sheets of film and not allowing developer to produce uniform density.

Agitation, I learned a long time ago that every photographer has his / her own method of agitating film. Being consistent with your agitation technique is far more important that the exact method of agitation, althought I subscript to the gentler kinder approach.

Ken's method of using full strength developer and then pouring out in favor of pure water is risky at best. The benefit of that method is more contrast compression than it is to increase adjancecy effects which is caused by exhausted developer at tonality boundaries and reduced agitation.

Terrific technique, do not give up

[Scott Davis]

I'm not going to try that developer/water swap technique. It sounds far too disruptive to the surface of the film. I played around in the darkroom with the film from that session, and I had my first real success with printing a split-contrast print off that negative... I was able to get cloud detail in a shot from the Springfield, Massachussetts train station and hold detail in the ironwork and foreground at the same time. I'm still inclined to do a little selective bleaching on the ironwork as it went darker than I'd like. Probably just need to improve my technique. Steve - thanks for the intro to this technique. I'm really glad I got to see your presentation at the Large Format Conference.

[sanking]

"Ken's method of using full strength developer and then pouring out in favor of pure water is risky at best. The benefit of that method is more contrast compression than it is to increase adjancecy effects which is caused by exhausted developer at tonality boundaries and reduced agitation. "

I agree with Steve. Although some people have reported very good results with full strength solutions of Pyrocat-HD, say 1:1:100, and some have even reported good results with very strong dilutions, such as 5:3:100, I am personally convinced that the best approach is to use a very dilute solution, say 1:1:150 - 1:1:200 with extended development times. This procedure tends to minimize the chance of uneven development, based on my own experience.

[John Cook]

Ken, historically speaking I first became aware of stand development in 1970.

I was doing some "pro bono" work for the West Springfield MA Police Department, offering help with their mug shots. They still had an old mahogany 4x5 mug shot camera with a sliding back to do a front and profile view on a single sheet of b&w film. The Nikor stainless tank factory was located there and had built them a beautiful stainless "soda fountain" custom sink/developing line.

But no one had ever mentioned how long to develop films or how to agitate. The men used to load the arrest shots from the previous night shift into Kodak hangers, pop them into the developer and then go to lunch. It wasn't until mid afternoon before someone might remember to fix and wash the negs.

To this day, the West Springfield Police Department has on file some of the most beautiful b&w mug shots ever taken. Don't know what ever happened to the processing sink or antique camera.