what kind of glass?

[paulr]

At the recent Stephen Shore show at Houk Friedman gallery in New York, the work was framed with better looking glazing than I've ever seen. It seemed invisible ... no aparent color cast, and practically no glare. And none of the image-killing frosted appearance of regular non-glare glass. When I tried to catch glare from the lights in the glass, I saw faint multicolored reflections, just like on the surface of a multicoated lens.

Any idea what this stuff was?

I wanted to ask the guy working there, but he was glued to someone who looked like they had money.

[Erik Gould]

Can't get over that Shore show can you, Paul? I would bet that the glazing isn't glass, but acrylic. I switched over a few years ago, it's clearer, has no color cast and is available with a UV filter built in, that explains (i think) the multicolor reflections you saw. It's pretty common for large works because it is much lighter and safer. Cleaning, static and scratches are the downside, but its worth the trade off to me to avoid the green green glass of home.

[paulr]

That makes sense. I thought it might be some kind of acrylic because of the clarity, but I'd never seen it with that kind of coating on it. Made a big difference. Regular UV filtering plexi has anti glare coating on it?

[Neal Wydra]

Dear Paul,

It may have been a product called "Museum Glass" from Viratec.

http://www.viratec.com/downloads/museum_glass22.pdf

[Jorge Gasteazoro]

I think Erik is right, I bought two prints from Dan Burkholder and he offered to frame them for me, he used clear acrylic, very thin and light weight. Funny thing is that it does not give any reflections and it is very transparent with no color cast. If I could find it here in Mexico it is what I would be using.

[Mark Sawyer]

There was also a glass called "Den Glass," (not sure of the spelling or if it's around anymore), which had a coating that looked very much like the coating on a lens. I found the colors to be a distraction unless the work was hung under ideal lighting conditions. It was made just for high-end/museum framing.

[Oren Grad]

Perhaps Denglas, or the equivalent Tru-Vu product - these are antireflection coated glass products.

[paulr]

I think you guys called it with the Museum Glass products. Seems like two or three companies are making similar glass with that name. It looks amazing.

[Paul Butzi]

Denglas, Water white Denglas, and several similar products are all candidates.

The only problem with these products is that they're damn expensive, and the glass apparently requires special equipment to cut.

If there's a similar acrylic product, I'd love to have a pointer to it. After the last earthquake up here popped several frames off the walls of my home, I've been reluctant to frame anything larger than, say, 11x14 with glass. (and, a 32x40 sheet of Denglas would be prohibitively expensive).

[Jorge Gasteazoro]

Here you go Paul.

http://www.matshop.com/acrylic.html

Apparently acrylic has better UV absorbtion than glass ( I guess you are looking for this) the only problem I see might be using ammonia cleaners. In any case Dan used the 1 mm thickness and it looks great.

[Michael Gordon]

My guess is also Museum glass based on the multicolored reflections. The price is too prohibitive to hang a show with it, but if a customer is willing to pay for it, I'd much prefer to see my photographs behind it versus regular glass.

[paulr]

Yeah, if someone made acrylic with the antireflective coatings that would be perfect.

[Jorge Gasteazoro]

Forgot to add, from the prints I have, it seems you dont need the "non glare" acrylic, the ones I have show no glare at all, it seem the acrylic has naturally this property.

[Steven Barall]

The stuff you are talking about is Den Glass or a competitor. Framers that do very high end work for big galleries and artists use it routinely. In a side by side comparison with standard glass you will see that the Den Glass is brighter by about one stop and is colorless. A framer that I have worked very closely with here in NY has a watercolor framed with the Den on one half and standard glass on the other. Almost everyone that sees it opts for the Den. It is amazing when you see it side by side. I think that the largest size it comes in is 36 by 48 or around there.

There is anti-glare plexi. You think that Den Glass is expensive???? The anti glare plexi is really really expensive and almost no one uses it. I think that a 4 by 8 foot piece is in the thousands of dollars.(?) My framing guys have used it a few times and I have seen a sample. It will rock your world. It is transparent, invisible, just not there. You will simply not believe what you are looking at, or not looking at.

Standard plexi is available with the anti-UV coating for not much more money that regular uncoated cheap plexi.

Framing is important so be a smart consumer and shop around. Frames must be structurally strong to resist warping and breaking and most importantly, everything must be reversible. The artwork must be removable from the frame, matt and hinges completely unharmed in any way. If you paid moere than fifty bucks for a frame and it's closed in the back using glazing points, you got ripped off big time.

[e]

My wife has been working in an art gallery/frame shop for many years and there are many different types of glass to use for frames.I've seen them all. Some of the premium non-glare types are absolutely great with no reflections but they can be a real problem to keep clean or to get oils from your fingerprints off etc. Some appear to mute the sharpness a tad. They can be expensive.Emile/www.deleon-ulf.com

[paulr]

"There is anti-glare plexi. You think that Den Glass is expensive???? The anti glare plexi is really really expensive and almost no one uses it. I think that a 4 by 8 foot piece is in the thousands of dollars.(?) "

Yikes. not what i was hoping to hear. i think regular plexi is fine for me most of the time, but i have a customer who has in the past framed my work with traditional non-glare (meaning, barely transparent) glass. She says there's a lot of glare in her house. I'm getting ready to send her another print and want to recommend something else (I'm matting the work for her but she's going to frame it).

"If you paid moere than fifty bucks for a frame and it's closed in the back using glazing points, you got ripped off big time."

I've always framed my own work (for shows) or else sold it unframed. I never learned how the people who really know what they're doing do it. With wood frames, what holds the art/backing board in if you're not using points or nails?

[bob carnie]

Hi there
Either dene glass or museum glass.
point of comparison in price
40x60 sheet 4pieces museum $1250 vs regular glass 40x60 three pieces $60, conservation glass three pieces $127

One of my staff by mistake ordered museum rather than conservation and I almost hit the floor with the price. Luckily it was not cut down so I could do a return, the glass would have been double 4 framed pieces.

I do believe Dene glass is even more pricey than Museum

[bob carnie]

Steven
I would like to know as well how you would put together a frame without the brads in the back of a wood frame.
We do a brace system for very large frames as well if a client requests we will make a brace system for the back on smaller frames but you still have to screw into the frame.

[Oren Grad]

Denglas and comparable products have another interesting use - for negative carriers and contact printers. I substituted a piece of Denglas for the bottom glass in the universal glass carrier for my LPL 4x5. The antireflection coating suppresses the emulsion-side Newton's rings that you can get from printing TMX with a glass carrier.

At such small sizes, the cost of the glass is not too outrageous. The catch is that Denglas, the specific brand with which I have most experience, is prone to small defects in the glass surface. (I suspect it's inherent in the coating process - I doubt that TruVu or any other competitors would be much better.) They would not be significant for most framing applications, but of course they're a problem in an optical system. So for this use you need to find a vendor who has the patience to let you sort through pieces of the stuff until you find a really clean sample, and will then cut it for you *very* carefully. I bought my pieces of Denglas from a frame shop that, at least for a while, found my eccentric requirements not too much of a nuisance to tolerate.

I agree with Emile's point - the stuff takes fingerprints easily, and is difficult to keep really clean without damaging the surface.