Can Compur shutters be replaced with Copals?

[Lachlan 717]

Wondering whether the older Compur "tube" shutters can be replaced with Copals.

For instance, can this shutter be replaced with a Copal 3?

162268

[Mark Sampson]

That looks like a Schneider 120/8 Super-Angulon. Or is it a 165/8? It has the collar to make the shutter speeds more accessible; it's a regular Compur inside. I have an earlier (1957) version of the 120, and used a 165 on the job for many years.
I wonder why would you want to change the shutter? Compurs are repairable if broken and Ive found them to be as reliable as Copal shutters. I admit the non-geometric speed markings are an annoyance but it's never stopped me.
I believe that most modern lenses will fit into either Copal or Compur shutters; some lenses were offered with your choice. Perhaps you'll find that kind of information on the SK Grimes site... and there are real experts (not like me) who will soon chime in.

[Lachlan 717]

Thanks, Mark. I appreciate the input.

It's the 165mm.

The reason is quite simple: I have access to a mint, black Copal 3.

The 210mm SA is on the want list as well....

[MAubrey]

According to Sk Grimes' site, they should be interchange able. If you have a caliper, you could double check to confirm the spacing, but the threads ought to be the same.

[Lachlan 717]

Thanks for that.

I did check Grimes' site, but only found the newer Compur (Copal-style) shutters.

[Dan Fromm]

Lachlan, Schneider's documentation is a bit unclear. One brochure says the 165/8 SA is in a #1, another says II 5/2. The #1's front threads are M40x1, the II 5/2's are M45.8 x 40 tpi. Look at your shutter to find out which you have.

[IanG]

That's supposedly a Compur #3 according to Schneider's information on their website and however their Professional Lenses Review I have in front of me says the shutter is a 1u, 3.

I have a silver barrelled version of the same 165mm f8 SA lens, same shutter and had it serviced shortly after buying it with a 10x8 Agfa Ansco. What I can conform is the actual shutter in the middle is a Compur #1 (hence the 1u) but the barrel with the rear cells doesn't screw into the usual #1 rear threads instead it's much larger and screws into that casing that houses the shutter. There would be far to much weight to mount straight into a Compur #1, they weigh 1.465 kg according to Sdhneider :D

I can't check the shutter against my Copal #3 as the front barrel f my SA won't unscrew easily (I think there are lock screws.. Personally I'd get the Compur shutter serviced it'll out last a Copal and cost a lot less.

Ian

[Dan Fromm]

Ian, I have the 1963, 1967 and 1995 Angulon/SA brochures. '63 says the 165/8 SA is in #1, '67 says II 5/2, '95 says 3. Lachlan, you'd better check which you have.

[Luis-F-S]

I don't believe that the older Compur "tube" shutters can be replaced with Copals without machining done. The more modern Copal/Compur 3's are probably a different story. I have a 240 Sironar that came off a Compur 3 that fits a Copal 3 just fine.

[IanG]

Ian, I have the 1963, 1967 and 1995 Angulon/SA brochures. '63 says the 165/8 SA is in #1, '67 says II 5/2, '95 says 3. Lachlan, you'd better check which you have.

Dan, the confusion is the early 165mm f8 SA's do use a Compur #1 shutter and are same as mine and Lachlan's so that's correct it's just the lens cells don't screw into that #1 shutter, hence the 1u, 3 in my 1970 Schneider leaflet. So the mechanical shutter is a Compur 1 in a housing and the lens was also available in a Compur Electronic 3, so presumably the housing the Compur 1 sits in is actually comparable to a #3.

Like Luis though I don't think the tube lengths are the same.

Ian

[Dan Fromm]

Ian, with all the respect in the world its time to measure. Speculating is fun but unsafe.

[IanG]

Ian, with all the respect in the world its time to measure. Speculating is fun but unsafe.

I would measure if my 165mm front cell unscrewed easily, the rear does and the shutter in side is definitely a Compur 1 - I fitted a rear cell from a Tessar in a #1 Compur, which matches the Schneider data of 1u, 3.

Ian

[Lachlan 717]

My sincere thanks, gentlemen!

I guess I'm reassured that this wasn't a stupid question, and I now understand why there wasn't an easily-found answer already out there!!

My real desire is the 210mm for my 7x17", so I guess I'll wait for one to come up and not fear if it's in a Compur shutter.

Again, thank-you for your time and input.

[Dan Fromm]

Someone who doesn't post on the forum whispered this in my ear:


This has been discussed so many times before, not sure why there is so much speculation:
http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?95336-Super-Angulon-165mm-in-COPAL-vs-SYNCHRO-COMPUR
In short, there is no way to replace that shutter, EVEN IF lachlan could manage to open the front cell, which i, with all the proper tools, could not, on two occasions. Grimes charge X2 to service this lens because there is no simple access.

EDIT: Sorry, Tony, I've fixed it.

[tonyowen]

Someone who doesn't post on the forum whispered this in my ear:

The web address does not work - pls clarify

regards
Tony

[Lachlan 717]

The web address does not work - pls clarify

regards
Tony

It refers to the newer design of shutters (similar to Copals), rather than the ones I was referring to.

[IanG]

Someone who doesn't post on the forum whispered this in my ear:

EVEN IF lachlan could manage to open the front cell, which i, with all the proper tools, could not, on two occasions. Grimes charge X2 to service this lens because there is no simple access.



Lachlan, I had my 165mm f8 SA serviced by my usual repair shop and there were no additional charges compared to any other shutter/camera they've repaired or done a CLA on for me.

Ian