Articulable/dextrous gloves for -30c shooting?

[senderoaburrido]

Currently I'm rocking an acrylic underglove with fingers, with my bike mitts being the outer layer. I pull the mitts off intermittently to perform whatever adjustments necessary, and then throw them back on as fast as possible. I keep edging a bit too close for comfort towards frostbite. I think the problem is twofold: my undergloves are pretty flimsy, and barely protect my fingers, while the mitts that go overtop are also pretty flimsy.

I might even need to change technique entirely. If I could wear a fairly flexible outer glove at all time, perhaps I could avoid removing any layers unless extremely fine manipulations are necessary.

Anyone have some experience-proven glove brands or models compatible with using a 4x5 camera outside in -30 celsius (max)? Any techniques to share?

[Steve Goldstein]

For skiing I use a set of Dakine mittens with their polypropylene liner gloves. The outer mitts are windproof, the liners are not. I have to remove the mittens when I want to use the Perkeo II (120 rollfilm folder) in my chest pack, and it gets cold after a minute or so if there's any wind blowing. Otherwise this combo is plenty warm at least down to -20 with wind.

I've thought about, but not yet tried, wearing a pair of big-as-I-can-find nitrile or latex gloves over the liners as a wind block. I'm not sure if the moisture buildup inside would be problematic or not - polypro retains warmth when wet, but it might get kind of clammy.

You probably know that mittens will be warmer than gloves, but the dexterity problem is definitely an issue. I wonder which of the many 4x5s made over the years has the largest knobs and controls? If you use a Canham it might be worth contacting Keith to see about special oversized bits for this purpose. The danger there would be that bigger knobs allow for more torque, and you don't want to strip things.

[chassis]

What subject are you shooting? Landscape? The reason for the question is: if you are shooting landscapes you generally have time to work slowly. My suggestion is chemical hand warmers in your outer coat pockets, or a "muff" where you can put both hands. I don't know what language you speak, so I don't know if "muff" translates well. This approach then does not require gloves to work with the camera, bare hands can be used. Or thin gloves at the most.

If you work slowly, make one camera adjustment at a time, and return your hands to the warmed pockets or muff, you should be OK. It will take more time to work this way, compared to working at 20C. But it will work and your hands will not freeze. I have used a similar approach and been exposed to -15C for 8 hours using this procedure.

In my view no pair of gloves, unless they incorporate chemical warmers, will solve the problem of extended exposure to -30C, while giving the dexterity needed to operate a large format camera.

[Erik Larsen]

I use something similar to these. I wear thin under armor gloves inside the mittens with hand warmers in the finger part of the mittens. You can do many camera functions with the mittens and when you need greater dexterity you just flip the finger portion of the mittens back and use your fingers. It works pretty good.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170304/1306d7018850f8bb2b98d2ffa7c86b4b.jpg

[Jim Jones]

A store like Cabelas or Bass Pro Shop that caters to hunters has a variety of gloves intended for cold weather shooting of something noisier than cameras. I still prefer the OP's use of lighter gloves under very warm mittens with the mittens tethered so they dangle close at hand while adjusting the camera.

[Jody_S]

Plain white cotton knit work gloves, for working with the camera (and even then I have to remove 1 glove to do things like put on a cable release). On top of those, a pair of grandmother's style heavy wool knit mittens. Or I might alternate the two, keeping one or the other pair in the pockets of my jacket. I like hand coverings that can breathe, and something like skidoo (thanks to the Palins, 'snowmachine') gloves are overkill if you're walking. If your hands get sweaty while walking, you won't be comfortable setting up no matter what you're wearing at that point.

If you're going colder than -30, then use what the Inuit use: sealskin mitts. Again, I would alternate with cotton work gloves for the short periods of time needed to work the camera. I have done LF at -30 a couple of times, I was quite comfortable except I wished I'd worn snow pants instead of plain jeans. Or at least my thermal underwear under the jeans. I do own a goose down, coyote fur winter parka suitable for work in the far North, I wouldn't dream of wearing something like that for a hike with a heavy pack in any weather short of -40.

[senderoaburrido]

Heat packets seem like a good idea. I'll go pick some up.

I might just need some higher quality undergloves, too. It seems like most of you are using a similar technique. I'd credit this to my poor circulation. When I have my hands de-mittened for even a minute or two at -15C, I can't seem to warm them back up, even with the mitts on. That's the specific problem I'm having. My hands do not seem to retain heat in a normative way.

I thought I'd ask this question because you see all these historical and modern LF photos taken in winter, and they must have been taken in reasonable comfort. How the hell was Ansel Adams not losing his fingers out in Yosemite's winters?

[Dan Fromm]

Raynaud's syndrome?

[senderoaburrido]

Raynaud's syndrome?

I just looked that up and it looks quite scary! I'm pretty sure that's not what's happening to me. I'm a very slight, tall person with slender fingers. In general I'm pretty vulnerable to the cold. Poor circulation in the extremities runs in my family.

[adelorenzo]

For think gloves check out your local bike/ski shop for gloves used for nordic skiing, biathlon or winter cycling. These need to be warm and yet dextrous enough to shift gears, shoot rifles etc.

That being said no thinner glove will keep you warm at -30 especially when handling cold metal. I recommend a pair of beaver-trimmed moosehide mitts or, if you can't get those, some down-filled expedition mitts. Nice to have ones that hang from a string so you can easily pull them on and off to work.

Rather than heat packets, on extreme days I use Zippo warmers inside my mitts. Otherwise after having your hands out for a while it's hard to re-warm them as your mittens will be cold as well.

162087

[DHodson]

Depending on what you think it's worth, you might want to check out the Heat3 system. Lots of people (myself included) seem to be making do with whatever they can find but I have to admit, this winter had me thinking about these again - it's been a tough one this year. I just can't spring the money though and when it hits -47C with the wind then the darkroom or a book sounds pretty good.

162140

[chassis]

sendero I wouldn't assume the winter photos you mentioned were taken in relative comfort, just a thought. I also have hands that are difficult to keep warm when I am not engaged in physical activity. Working with a camera is not particularly taxing, physically. If your camera location is more than 100 yards from the vehicle, be careful not to work up a sweat on the hike. When you stop hiking to set up the camera, your body will stop generating as much heat as it did during the hike, and any sweat will become a liability in the cold weather.

Open the chemical warmers and put them in your pockets 30 minutes before you need them. On the hike to the camera position, wear whatever gloves you have. When you are setting up the camera, work slowly and put your hands in your pockets for a few minutes to warm them as needed. Simple and inexpensive.

[senderoaburrido]

Depending on what you think it's worth, you might want to check out the Heat3 system. Lots of people (myself included) seem to be making do with whatever they can find but I have to admit, this winter had me thinking about these again - it's been a tough one this year. I just can't spring the money though and when it hits -47C with the wind then the darkroom or a book sounds pretty good.


Ha, those look amazing. Although they cost a little over half my week's wages.



sendero I wouldn't assume the winter photos you mentioned were taken in relative comfort, just a thought. I also have hands that are difficult to keep warm when I am not engaged in physical activity. Working with a camera is not particularly taxing, physically. If your camera location is more than 100 yards from the vehicle, be careful not to work up a sweat on the hike. When you stop hiking to set up the camera, your body will stop generating as much heat as it did during the hike, and any sweat will become a liability in the cold weather.

Open the chemical warmers and put them in your pockets 30 minutes before you need them. On the hike to the camera position, wear whatever gloves you have. When you are setting up the camera, work slowly and put your hands in your pockets for a few minutes to warm them as needed. Simple and inexpensive.

My only vehicle is my bicycle. I have no license and no car. I suppose something I hadn't considered for shots like Lucas DeShazer's is that he probably was working out of a heated vehicle. Having no where to go to warm up after shots complicates the process. I'll buy some hand warmers, since that seems to be the most common recommendation here.

[HMG]

Mechanics gloves under some serious mittens.

[tonyowen]

For what it is worth, many decades ago in Ontario, Quebec, New England, and The Rockies I skied downhill, Nordic and used snowshoes; in temperatures down to -40. All I used on my hands were regular ski gloves. Agreed that I was using a Leica M camera, not LF, but again there was the need for camera adjustment. Two things worth noting going from -40 to a warmer place caused the camera to become an instant 'ice cube', and changing film was a very brittle affair. Secondly, hands are not the only part of the male anatomy needing protection. Once when taking part in the Muskoka 25 kilometre Loppet the temperature was -35C and I ended up with a frostbitten penis!!!!!! in spite of thermal underwear etc.
regards
Tony

[Two23]

There are no gloves that will do what you want. If a glove is insulated enough for 30 below, it will be too thick to operate small buttons etc. on a camera. I love winter and will be out taking photos on the coldest nights in blizzards. My strategy is to keep my body core warm and I wear a Mountain Hardwear Absolute Zero suit. It's 800-fill goose down about three and four inches thick. For colder than zero F I add a medium weight polar fleece layer, a thin Patagonia 800-fill goose down vest, heavy weight base layer, and wear an Outdoor Research Gorilla face mask. If your body core is getting cold, it slows down blood flow to the hands and feet. On my feet are Baffin boots. For gloves I wear Black Diamond Guide Gloves--warmest gloves listed on the alpine climbing websites. (Outdoor Research mittens are warmer yet.) They are thick though, and I can't operate a camera with them on. To use a camera I have a pair Outdoor Research PI 100 sensor gloves. These are thicker than liner gloves and have wind block. I use them for short periods of time, 5-10 minutes at the most, and then put the Black Diamonds back on. This kind of gear cost a lot of money, but it is well worth it. This time of year you can find much of it on sale at the mountain climbing gear sellers such as Backcountry.com and Moosejaw. Stores like Cabelas and Bass Pro will not have anything near this warm because their typical customers are hunters/fishermen who rarely venture out when the weather in the U.S. turns more extreme. For the really warm stuff you need stores that cater to mountain climbers, extreme skiers, and possibly outdoor workers in places like northern Alaska and Norway. This is a good place for the warmest stuff:
http://www.everestgear.com/om1298.html?cmp=googleproducts&kw=om1298&Size=M



Kent in SD

[Fr. Mark]

Wow, ya'll are serious. I found that batteries in camera bodies that run shutters and meters don't like temperatures anywhere close to as cold as y'all are talking about. I hope your shutter functions correctly---even mechanical systems can have trouble at those temps. I once tried oil painting outside during the winter and let's say the paint and modifiers did not behave at zero centigrade and thereabouts as they do at 20 C. Maybe someday I will join you in the serious cold, for now I'm adjusting to a move in the opposite climatic direction PA to TX.

[Two23]

Wow, ya'll are serious. I found that batteries in camera bodies that run shutters and meters don't like temperatures anywhere close to as cold as y'all are talking about. .


Lithium batteries will work in temps as cold as -40. That's the coldest I've ever tried them in anyway. For my Nikon D800E, I usually have my camera set on a tripod and I pull the battery out and keep it in an inner pocket until needed, along with two other freshly charged batteries. The Vagabond power packs I use to power my big monolights run off sealed lead acid batteries, and when it starts dropping to 20 below I put a large chemical hand warmer in the bag next to them, on the side not hit by the wind.


Kent in SD