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12pmc
25-Feb-2017, 07:03
I am looking to purchase a moderate wide lens for 4x5. I have seen some examples of Fujinon lens on ebay - 120mm f8; and the 125mm f5.6. Can anyone with experience of these lens comment on their performance and what is the meaning of the letter code given for the lens - e.g. "W".

My work is general and not specifically architectural, so a lot of coverage is less of a concern, and I would prefer the faster lens for easier focusing.

Thanks for any comments.

Peter

Dan Fromm
25-Feb-2017, 07:34
Fuji's naming conventions are confusing and names in brochures don't exactly match what's engraved on the lenses. The clearest explanation is at: http://www.subclub.org/fujinon/index.htm

IMO -- not everyone agrees -- focusing at f/8 isn't significantly harder than focusing at f/5.6. To check for yourself, put an f/5.6 lens on your camera, focus it wide open. Then stop it down to f/8 and focus again.

xkaes
25-Feb-2017, 07:38
Peter,

Like all optics manufacturers, some made some good lenses and some made some that you want to avoid. Including the large format realm, Nikon made some great lenses, some not so good. Yashica made some great lenses, some not so good. Fuijica made some great lenses, some not so good. Rodenstock made some great lenses, some not so good. Schnieder made some great lenses, some not so good.

For a look at FUJI lenses check out www.subclub.org/fujinon (www.subclub.org/fujinon)

chassis
25-Feb-2017, 08:50
My suggestion is to go wider. 120/125 is pretty mild in my view for 4x5. To me it doesn't feel "wide". Suggest 90mm or, better yet 72mm. I like the possibilities these wider lenses offer. I regularly use a 58mm SAXL and enjoy the perspective and have no problems focusing when using a darkcloth and loupe.

Doremus Scudder
25-Feb-2017, 10:05
12pmc,

Two things, first the lenses: Fuji W NW and CM-W series lenses are plasmats and usually have maximum apertures of f/5.6. Angle of coverage is approx. 76°-80°, similar to the Schneider Symmar series and the Nikkor W lenses. More letters in the series means newer and sometimes improved (better coating, etc.). Lenses of this design barely cover 4x5 at the 125mm focal length. 135mm offers limited movements, 150mm and up have generous image circles for 4x5.

Anything SW (NSW etc.) are larger heavier lenses with wider angles of coverage, typically 100°, similar to the Schneider Super Angulon and the Nikkor SW series. For focal lengths shorter than 125mm or so, you need a lens with a wider angle of coverage like this in order not to vignette corners. If you need rise or shift a lot (for architectural work, etc.), these are the go-to lenses for shorter focal lengths and even moderate ones like 120mm.

Second, the choice for a shorter-focal-length lens: If you have a 150mm or 135mm lens already, you will certainly want to go wider. 90mm is a tried and true standard wide-angle lens for 4x5 because it is a great compromise between a wide angle of view and plenty of coverage to use movements. In the W series (and similar lenses from other manufacturers) there are two versions of this lens, one larger on with a larger image circle and larger maximum aperture of f/5.6 or so and a smaller version with max. aperture of f/8 or so and a slightly smaller image circle. I carry the smaller 90mm f/8 because I've optimized portability of my kit. However, I run out of image circle with it from time-to-time.

If you have a 210mm lens already, a lens in the 120mm-135mm range would be a good addition (FWIW, my most-used focal length is 135mm). When choosing a lens in this range, you need to asses your need for image circle size. If you never use rise or shift and just a bit of back tilt from time-to-time, then the 125mm W will do the job just fine. However, it will quickly run out of coverage if you need rise or shift. A 135mm lens in the same series (W, etc.) will give you a bit more image circle and just about the same angle of view. If you plan on doing work in this focal length with extreme movements, then the 120mm SW or similar lens will give you tons of image circle, but at the expense of large and heavy.

Hope this helps a bit.

Doremus

Leigh
25-Feb-2017, 12:19
I can personally recommend the Fujinon 90/5.6 SWD with EBC multi-coating.
The SWD name means Super-Wide Deluxe.

Its 236mm image circle is almost 70mm larger than the diagonal of 4x5 film.
That's large enough to provide generous movements with 5x7 film.

I have one and am quite impressed with its optical quality.

-Leigh

Eric Woodbury
25-Feb-2017, 13:26
I was tired of travelling with a fortune in lenses, so I switched over to Fujinon lens a few years back. I have the 65mm, 135mm, 180mm, 240mm, 360mm, and 450mm. Love them all. Great lenses. I had the 105mm but it was too close to the edges on 4x5. The 125mm I had was too close to the 135mm, so I sold it off, too. Presently, the 135mm is a fave. When buying lenses, I think you should consider how the steps fall. I space mine about 1.5X apart. For 4x5, my common package is 90/135/200/300/450. This makes life simpler for me. I'm not a "full-frame addict" and don't mind cropping a little if I don't have the perfect lens.

As for focusing, the best improvements for this are: the best dark cloth you can find and a shaded loupe that works well even without a cloth.

locutus
25-Feb-2017, 13:59
There are 2 versions of the 105.

The f/5.6 lens is for 6x9, it covers 5x4 but with only very slight movements. The f/8 lens on the other hand has a 250mm IC and would even cover 5x7.

If the 77mm filter threads aren't a problem the 105 would be a very nice moderate wideangle (~30mm 135 equivalent) with extensive movement allowance.

Dan Fromm
25-Feb-2017, 15:09
Fuji W NW and CM-W series lenses are plasmats and usually have maximum apertures of f/5.6. Angle of coverage is approx. 76°-80°, similar to the Schneider Symmar series and the Nikkor W lenses. More letters in the series means newer and sometimes improved (better coating, etc.). Lenses of this design barely cover 4x5 at the 125mm focal length. 135mm offers limited movements, 150mm and up have generous image circles for 4x5.

Doremus, have you read the compilation of Fuji documentation that links in posts #2 and #3 above point to?

I ask because it says that 1st generation f/5.6 Fujinons, "W" in the literature and engraved "W", are indeed 6/4 plasmats that cover as much as 80 degrees depending on focal length. These are the ones with serial numbers etc. on the trim rings. Claimed coverage for the 125/5.6 is 210 mm.

The second generation, "NW" in the literature but engraved "W", are 6/6. I don't know that type's name, but it isn't plasmat. These are the ones with serial numbers on the rear cell and lens identification on the outside of the front cell. Claimed coverage for the 125/5.6 is 198 mm.

The third generation, CM W in the literature and so engraved, are 6/5. These also have serial numbers on the rear cell and ID on the outside of the front cell. The 125/5.6 CM-W's claimed coverage is 204 mm.

I don't see why a 125/5.6 Fujinon won't cover 4x5 with movements. I also don't see how Fuji found so much more coverage than their competitors.

Alan Gales
25-Feb-2017, 15:22
I own a Schneider 121mm f/8 lens. It is a moderate wide angle on 4x5 and feels like a 35mm lens on a 35mm or full frame digital camera.

It's a nice focal length if this is what you are looking for.

There is nothing wrong with Fuji lenses. I own two of them!

Keith Pitman
25-Feb-2017, 17:30
You can also find some info on Fuji lenses here: http://www.thalmann.com Follow the link in the "Contact" section.

David Karp
25-Feb-2017, 17:35
I have a 125mm Fujinon NW. It covers 4x5 with movements, but you have to be careful. I love the lens and focal length. I also have a 120mm f/8 Fujinon SW that is huge, with lots of coverage. That one does not spend too much time in my backpack if I am going on a long hike. The smaller, lighter 125mm is with me quite often. The newer 125mm CM-W has a bit more coverage, but it is larger, requiring 67mm filters.

David Karp
25-Feb-2017, 21:58
I should have said what I meant by "be careful." There is room for decent movement, but you have to watch the corners.

Doremus Scudder
26-Feb-2017, 03:48
Doremus, have you read the compilation of Fuji documentation that links in posts #2 and #3 above point to?

I ask because it says that 1st generation f/5.6 Fujinons, "W" in the literature and engraved "W", are indeed 6/4 plasmats that cover as much as 80 degrees depending on focal length. These are the ones with serial numbers etc. on the trim rings. Claimed coverage for the 125/5.6 is 210 mm.

The second generation, "NW" in the literature but engraved "W", are 6/6. I don't know that type's name, but it isn't plasmat. These are the ones with serial numbers on the rear cell and lens identification on the outside of the front cell. Claimed coverage for the 125/5.6 is 198 mm.

The third generation, CM W in the literature and so engraved, are 6/5. These also have serial numbers on the rear cell and ID on the outside of the front cell. The 125/5.6 CM-W's claimed coverage is 204 mm.

I don't see why a 125/5.6 Fujinon won't cover 4x5 with movements. I also don't see how Fuji found so much more coverage than their competitors.

Hi Dan,

Yes, I'm familiar with the Fujinon documentation (I have the web pages on my hard drive). And yes, I was way over-generalizing for the OP about lens designs. I don't know what the exact designation for the 6/6 and 6/5 Fujinons is, but since the angle of coverage is similar to the plasmats, and since Fuji considers them in the same "family" (or updated, "improved" versions of the plasmats), I've always just lumped them together for convenience's sake. I'm less interested in the design and more in the "families" delineated by angle of coverage, max. aperture and overall size and weight. I was trying to communicate that idea to the OP as simply as possible.

As for coverage: sure, the 125mm Fujis will cover 4x5, and even allow some movements, especially back movements that don't move the film out of the image circle. However, I find image circles around or less than ~200mm not very practical when you need any rise and shift at all. I run out of coverage easily with my plasmat 135mm lenses when working in the city, heck, I vignette my 90mm SA f/8 all too often, so I was trying to make the OP aware of the issue of coverage.

What I didn't know was that the Fuji 105mm CM-W had enough coverage to make it usable on 4x5. I'll stick with my 100mm WF Ektar, though. :)

Best,

Doremus

ruilourosa
27-Feb-2017, 04:51
I have a fujinon 210 w that covers 8x10 and a 125 cm-w both are really good. The necessity of a huge amount movements is somewhat overrated... depends on what are you are doing... When i started (it took around 10 years to start) in large format i thought that one could only take full profit of the format and itīs methodology when huge image circles were available, i invested in a a 150 sironar w and a grandagon 90mm, some followed... i also thought that newer and best branded lenses were a must... internet started to say this and that lens is a blast and the rest were less good... and you always want the best...

looking at my negatives and positives... the lenses are just different... color wise, contrast wise... you either like it or not... but just a 10% change in your developing time can alter your judgement... and you will say: this lens is really good or: it lacks contrast...

resolution wise... i have a ton of lenses and out of stupid curiosity i photographed through all of them in digital... and i just think they are all good, specially the ones post 1980... differences are to be negleted... older lenses are worst in the corners.

12pmc
28-Feb-2017, 05:03
Thanks all and Doremus for your explanations. I have now read Thalmans link and the sub club link. Plenty to digest.
Thanks again to all who commented
Peter