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DrTang
15-Feb-2017, 22:56
picked up a strange lens the other day

Marked Steinheil Munchen no. 40799 Patent

physically it is 3.5" tall and 3.75" total diameter..3" glass diameter

4 strong reflections

the weird part is the aperture is marked in the old U.S. system - down to f1/2 (as shown)

I kinda sort of calculated it out to be 16" or 17" and with an apparent aperture wide open of 63mm or so at the front glass

in no way does that = f2.8 or whatever f1/2 is..so

what is up??


it's kind of a nice size between the 14" and 20" lenses I already have though and will shoot it next shoot


http://www.mericphoto.com/lfp/stein1.JPG

http://www.mericphoto.com/lfp/stein2.JPG

http://www.mericphoto.com/lfp/stein3.JPG

Steven Tribe
16-Feb-2017, 03:52
This can't be the first Aplanat which Steinheil, made a few weeks before Dallmeyer made his RR, as he never got a patent for them.

There was a range of models called antiplanets which Steinheil made later. I think he was still using the (missing) flange to engrave certain details. I am just a reader of Lens VM details which has quite a lot of info on the various series, which are basically fastish portrait lenses with thick glass!

studiochrom
16-Feb-2017, 03:56
its either a Gruppen Antiplanet or a Rapid Antiplanet. hard to say without seeing how the elements are arranged. also the flange would have been helpfull, since it was mostly engraved.

i would guess its a Gruppen Antiplanet Series II No.6, having a starting aperture of F6.2, probably meant for the american market. it should be quite a nice lens with good image quality and a nice depth of view. should be really be heavy in weight, since they used serious amount of glass for the elements.

DrTang
16-Feb-2017, 08:21
its either a Gruppen Antiplanet or a Rapid Antiplanet. hard to say without seeing how the elements are arranged. also the flange would have been helpfull, since it was mostly engraved.

i would guess its a Gruppen Antiplanet Series II No.6, having a starting aperture of F6.2, probably meant for the american market. it should be quite a nice lens with good image quality and a nice depth of view. should be really be heavy in weight, since they used serious amount of glass for the elements.


it is really heavy - and the speed works out...but the aperture scale going down to 1/2? what's that about? and then how do I gauge the engraved apertures vs modern apertures?? (I know about matching up at 16 and counting up and down.. but that gives me f2.8 at marked 1/2)

Jon Wilson
16-Feb-2017, 08:31
The aperture scale may be the US System scale. However, the chart I saw starts with f2 which would be f6.6

Steven Tribe
16-Feb-2017, 10:54
US is compared best with the modern F scale in the bottom table of this link. I read this showing the Lens has a max aperture of well under modern F4. Which means it must be one of the versions of the Portrait Antiplanet. This is certainly uncommon and not well described.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-number

DrTang
16-Feb-2017, 12:15
US is compared best with the modern F scale in the bottom table of this link. I read this showing the Lens has a max aperture of well under modern F4. Which means it must be one of the versions of the Portrait Antiplanet. This is certainly uncommon and not well described.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-number

yes..it seems..but when I do the math (focal length over perceived aperture size) - I get something like 6.3 wide open... I guess I'll just shoot some film and test

Steven Tribe
16-Feb-2017, 14:36
Perhaps there is a lens component missing? This wouldn't be the first time a lens has lost a converging element, producing a longer focal length than expected. I remember a landscape lens discussed here that had lost the outer (third) part of the 3 lens cemented achromat.

So the correct focal length should be about 20cm using the aperture scale and iris entry diameter.

Jody_S
16-Feb-2017, 16:37
For comparison, a Steinheil Gruppen Antiplanet sold recently on fleabay, I looked it up when it was active, I think it was 360mm focal length.

142265812050 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Steinheil-Gruppen-Antiplanet-64mm-Brass-Box-Camera-Lens-/142265812050?hash=item211fb40452%3Ag%3AtgoAAOSwImRYkzft&nma=true&si=ThAsngkCkPplfv17kEftDAPsYhI%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557)

DrTang
17-Feb-2017, 08:08
mines bigger physically..bigger glass... and has an aperture ring

might be it..need to see a later example maybe

Steven Tribe
17-Feb-2017, 09:27
Yes, but the ebay lens has the same position aperture for the WHS as your iris. Could be your aperture has an unknown (French?) F scale.

DrTang
17-Feb-2017, 10:19
FOUND IT - thank you al gore ..inventor of the innernet!!!

french markings and their modern equivalents:


1/8 = F/3.4
1/4 = F/5
1/2 = F/6.8
1 = F/10
2 = F/14
4 = F/20
8 = F/28

"the French system" in France and early Steinheil lenses.


so..1/2 = f6.8 - - -seems legit

Jody_S
17-Feb-2017, 15:59
mines bigger physically..bigger glass... and has an aperture ring

might be it..need to see a later example maybe

You should be able to tell exactly how much bigger or smaller, the "64mm" on the fleabay lens refers to the diameter of the front element. If yours is 3" (76mm), then it is one size larger than the fleabay lens. From the Vade Mecum :


Gruppen Antiplanet Series 1 (1879) f6.2 This is a bulky lens with a big rear component. (Ste007) These
were rated to cover 70.The example seen was No31,43x and seems to be actually about f7.0 7.0in and best
for 1/4 or perhaps 5x4in plate. Another at No13,30x seems to be about f6/20in with a 78mm front glass
(Gruppen Antiplanet 78mm is engraved on the flange). When actually seen, it is big but not impossibly so and
a very impressive item.