Which 210 or 240 for 8x10?

[Dhuiting]

Hey guys, I'm seeing widely different price ranges on a Schneider Simar lens, some are APO and some are not, and then there is the super Symmar.

The non-APO versions are going as cheap as $150, and the APO versions are going as cheap as five or $600, so I'm wondering what I would be getting by spending the extra couple thousand dollars on the super? If I only care about sharpness and aren't doing much movement on 8 x 10, could I get away with the APO Symmar and get an extremely sharp image?

I am currently using 10 inch commercial Ektar ( which I paid $399 for) and I feel like I could do better, it doesn't seem like the sharpest lens.

I just saw this on eBay and it seems like a pretty good deal:https://www.ebay.com/itm/142259126692

For a guy that can't spend more than about 600 or $700 but wants an extremely sharp lens in the 210 to 240 mm range for use on an 8x10 camera,, are there any other options as well that you guys would recommend? Thank you!

[DG 3313]

I have an APO Symmar 210mm F5.6 that I use on 8x10. It covers the film with little or no movement and I always run it out a bit (never shot at infinity). I'm happy with the sharpness but, would like a larger IC. You may look at the Symmar S??

[asf]

If you're not concerned about movements a 240 symmar S will do. There's a nice looking one for sale in the classifieds now I think.



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[Randy]

The Fuji 250mm f/6.7 may be an affordable alternative - I think I paid about $160 for mine shipped from Japan, and in excellent condition. It covers 8X10 nicely.

[mstrickland]

I've had very good luck with my Symmar-S. Very sharp and even some decent movement with it. Mine's the one in the classifieds right now. The only reason I'm selling it is I do primarily field work and my current setup is 150, 300, and 450.


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[Alan9940]

I use a Fujinon A 240/9 and I've never been disappointed. Allows a reasonable amount of movement. Used price range is typically around the same as the lens on eBay.

[John Kasaian]

I'll give a thumbs up for the 240 G Claron. Fuji appears to have a strong fan base. I don't think you could go wrong with either.

[Dan Fromm]

Hmm. Schneider claims 298 mm for the 240 G-Claron @f/22 @infinity, 337 mm for the 240 Symmar-S, same conditions. Fuji claims 336 mm for the 240/9 A, 398 mm for the 250/6.7 W, same conditions.

I recently went shopping for normal lenses for 2x3 and 6x12, noticed that Fuji's coverage claims are much larger than Nikon's, Schneider's and Rodenstock's for comparable lenses. I don't doubt the claims, do wonder how Fuji gets more from 6/4 plasmat types (not all of the Fuji lenses I looked at are 6/4 plasmat types) than other makers.

[Corran]

I just bought a 240mm GC from Greg and he included a test sheet from 11x14. It almost covers 11x14 with just about half an inch vignette on all sides. I determined it was a plasmat design lens (older GCs are sometimes Dagor type).

So the 240mm GC covers for sure 8x10, which is what I bought it for. My experience with other GC lenses leads me to believe corner performance will be more than adequate up to any size I am likely to print from 8x10, but I haven't shot it on 8x10 yet. However, I've been loving it in my 4x5 kit recently (210 was also too short, 300 too long...) and central sharpness in the 4x5 frame is fantastic.

I have also shot both 210mm and 240mm Graphic Kowa lenses on 8x10 with excellent results and they have plenty of IC as well. All of these are only limited by the f/9 aperture, if that matters in your shooting, but that means they are very small and light.

[John Kasaian]

240 G Clarons, IIRC, are optimized for f/32
Mine is an older production and has served me very well for quite a few years,
with plenty of wiggle room for my purposes. YMMV of course!

[Peter De Smidt]

Don't forget the Apo Germinar-W. Mine is a better lens than my G-clarons.

[Alan Gales]

The Fuji 250mm f/6.7 may be an affordable alternative - I think I paid about $160 for mine shipped from Japan, and in excellent condition. It covers 8X10 nicely.

I paid $300 for mine a few years ago. They have since come down in price like you say, Randy. What a bargain for a sharp lens with an image circle of 398!

[Leonard Alecu]

The answer is very simple: Zeiss Dagor F9 21cm and 24cm. Also, a very good 210mm for 8x10 is the 210/5,6 Wollensak Pro Raptar.

[Michael Kadillak]

Don't forget the Apo Germinar-W. Mine is a better lens than my G-clarons.

Second that comment. The Apo Germinar 240W is superior to the G Claron in all respects starting for the simple reason that it is multi coated and has phenomenal contrast and is sharper.

[Corran]

Does the Germinar come in a shutter, or fit in a shutter easily? That may be an important difference depending on the user. Looking on eBay I didn't see any in shutter in current or recent auctions.

[EdWorkman]

The OP wrote
I am currently using 10 inch commercial Ektar ( which I paid $399 for) and I feel like I could do better, it doesn't seem like the sharpest lens.

Never had one, But the name sez it was Kodak's premier lens of the time, suitable for color transparencies. So I wonder how it could be so bad compared to more current lenses.
What tests have you done to see how good, or bad it really is ? Have you made any pix of finely detailed subjects? Resolution charts?
Should be coated and contrasty. What do you use it for?
I bought a Fuji 6.7 cuz of fast shutter speeds and it was cheaper than a CEK or a 300 in a small fast shutter
With the price of film ever higher I wonder why send a lotta bucks on a lens that may only marginally better

[Dan Fromm]

Bryan, Arne Croell says they're all in barrels and that they're difficult remounts. He suggests front-mounting.

Not the best suggestion possible if the OP sticks to his budget. Come to think of it, Arne says they all cover 46 degrees. So a terrible suggestion.

[Oren Grad]

Careful about the nomenclature on the Germinars: Apo-Germinar is not the same as Apo-Germinar W nor as plain Germinar W. See Arne Croell's article on the home page:

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/docter-optik.html

The barrel-mount 240 that some of us purchased from Kerry Thalmann several years back when he was able to lay his hands on some remainder stock was the Germinar W:

http://www.reallybigcameras.com/Docter_Optics/240mm_Germinar_W.html

That one is indeed a direct fit into Copal 1 - I swapped mine into a shutter obtained from a 240 Apo-Ronar with blemished glass.

[Corran]

Good info. Looks like some recent sales in barrel were at around $300, here in the classifieds.

[Michael Kadillak]

My 240 F9 lens may be just a Germinar W lens, but it still rocks. I have the 750mm Apo Germinar in Copal #3 and the results of both lenses look identical to me in B&W.

[Peter De Smidt]

Mine says, "Germinar 9/240W Docter - Wetzlar - Germany" The cells screw directly into a #1 shutter, in my case a Compur 1.

[Dan Fromm]

Oren, Peter, thanks for the correction.

[Oren Grad]

My 240 F9 lens may be just a Germinar W lens, but it still rocks.

Yes. To be clear to anyone who's not familiar with these lenses, not having the "Apo-" label doesn't mean it's inferior - the "plain" 240 Germinar W is a fine lens, just with different specifications from the Apo-labeled ones. I currently have mine mounted as a normal for my whole plate Century, making a combination that's ultralight for the format and a pleasure to carry and use in the field.

[vssoutlet]

240 or higher. Gives you more flexibility 210 is on the edge

[Lachlan 717]

The edge of what?

[Maris Rusis]

My ordinary but nice Nikkor-W 210mm f5.6 covers 8x10 at infinity and gives me up to 20mm rise when stopped down to f22. Corner detail is ok for contact work.

[Dhuiting]

Thanks for the responses everyone! I will check out all the recommendations.

[jesse]

The answer is very simple: Zeiss Dagor F9 21cm and 24cm. Also, a very good 210mm for 8x10 is the 210/5,6 Wollensak Pro Raptar.

Very hard to find 21cm and 24cm f9 Dagor right now, luckily I have both.

[MAubrey]

Other 210's that will cover nicely are:

Fuji's W 210mm f/5.6
Schneider's Angulon 210mm f/6.8.

[John Kasaian]

IMHO for contact printing, the differences, arguably, are rather piddling. Coverage, condition, speed, price, weight, bulk, filter size, etc... IMHO may or may not be a more desirable attributes than sharpness, because all these lenses mentioned, if the spacing hasn't been fiddled with, can do their part making very sharp negatives for contact printing.

Ask not what a lens can do for you, ask what you can do with that lens.
My 2-centavos, anyway.

[EdC]

Another possibility that should work is the 210mm f/9 Computar, if you can find one.

Ed

[MAubrey]

IMHO for contact printing, the differences, arguably, are rather piddling. Coverage, condition, speed, price, weight, bulk, filter size, etc... IMHO may or may not be a more desirable attributes than sharpness, because all these lenses mentioned, if the spacing hasn't been fiddled with, can do their part making very sharp negatives for contact printing.

Ask not what a lens can do for you, ask what you can do with that lens.
My 2-centavos, anyway.

I'll throw my two cents behind this sentiment. We're up to 0.04 now!

[robshepherd]

Can somebody please help? Where are the classifieds? I can't find a link to them, even when logged in. What am I missing? Secret society perhaps....

Thanks for the help. -R

[David Karp]

You have to be a member for 30 days before you can see the classifieds.

[quine]

+1 for the 240mm f/9 Fujinon A, especially close up.