Helioprint/Repromaster 150mm F9

[markfewtrell]

First up i'm new here so forgive me if this question has been mulled before. Anyone know if the above lens vignettes in a copal0 shutter?:confused:

[Dan Fromm]

Mark, I could be mistaken and the one I had many years ago may not be representative but as far as I know the cells won't go into any known shutter.

If you hang one in front of a #0 using a zero length adapter that has zero wall thickness, well, my crude front-mounting model says yes, it will vignette on 4x5. Probably won't if hung in front of a #1 but also won't allow much rise/shift.

[markfewtrell]

Mark, I could be mistaken and the one I had many years ago may not be representative but as far as I know the cells won't go into any known shutter.

If you hang one in front of a #0 using a zero length adapter that has zero wall thickness, well, my crude front-mounting model says yes, it will vignette on 4x5. Probably won't if hung in front of a #1 but also won't allow much rise/shift.

Thanks. This business is a new area for me. The thread on the 150mm is 32.5x0.5? It's this the front thread of copol 0?

[Dan Fromm]

No, it isn't. For dimensions of standard Copal shutters, see: http://www.skgrimes.com/products/new-copal-shutters/standardcopals

I take it you found one of the lenses, perhaps even paid for it, and now want to use it. Silly, silly idea. If it was a gift, it was a poisoned gift.

Buying an adapter to mount a lens in front of a shutter and buying the shutter almost always costs more than the equivalent lens in shutter. If you want a normal lens for 4x5, don't screw around with lenses in barrel. Just look for a 150/5.6 lens from one of the big four (in alphabetical order, Fuji, Nikon, Schneider and Rodenstock). Anything from them in good order, except perhaps a convertible Symmar, is much better than good enough if in good condition.

Most of us usually use lenses in shutter, not lenses hung in front of shutters. As I've already mentioned, the economics of front mounting are usually unfavorable. As I haven't mentioned, a lens projects a cone of rays. When a lens is hung in front of a shutter, the shutter -- either its opening or the rear of the tube -- blocks the outer part of the cone of rays. In other words, it vignettes. Not what we usually want. The smaller the shutter's maximum opening and rear tube, the worse the problem. And the farther the lens sits in front of the shutter, the worse the problem.

I use a number of lenses hung in front of shutters. I had good reasons for doing this and can get away with it better than most because I shoot 2x3 and 6x12, not 4x5. I hang lenses in front of a #1, not a #0. When I started with 6x12, several of my front-mounted lenses had vignetting problems because their adapters were long. They're now in shutter or replaced.

[markfewtrell]

Point taken. Ive misread the mount size for the front thread i think? Theres a 213 lens as well along with a bunch of other stuff. Since i wish to do colloidion then they would be ok for this and i can use them on enlarger with ltm adapter. The vignetting i suspected.

[markfewtrell]

Could you point me to a clarification of "lenses in shutter, not lenses hung in front of shutters"?

[Lachlan 717]

f9 lenses are far from the "standard" for Collodion shooting.

Just too slow.

[Dan Fromm]

Could you point me to a clarification of "lenses in shutter, not lenses hung in front of shutters"?

I'll try again. Lenses can be thought of as bits of glass in a tube. The ones we normally use are in three-piece tubes. The outer sections (front cell, rear cell) hold the bits of glass and are threaded to screw into the central section, which usually contains an iris diaphragm. Not always, I have a lens that arrived with the cells screwed into a section of straight tube. So far so clear?

The central tube can be replaced by a shutter. Plain tube or diaphragm with no shutter in the middle, lens in barrel. Shutter in the middle, lens in shutter.

Complete lens -- front cell, central tube, rear cell -- screwed into an adapter or directly into a shutter, front mounted or hung in front of the shutter.

Your ignorance is annoying. This is not an insult, we were all born ignorant. That you're seeking enlightenment is wonderful. The best place to find the enlightenment you seek is in books. The two most often recommended here are Steve Simmons' Understanding the View Camera and Leslie Strobel's View Camera Technique. Jim Stone's A User's Guide to the View Camera is highly recommended on the French LF forum. Buy one of them and read it.

[markfewtrell]

"Your ignorance is annoying. This is not an insult, we were all born ignorant." As someone whose a writer and photographer, ex engineer[nuclear power stations]/carpenter. Your waspishness gives the lie. I have read other articles you have written and now their light will be of a different colour. The enlightenment you suggest in books will have seen two universities and a life reading. Sometimes when someone understands it is a lifetime distilled to ask. Not everyone draws the same conclusion from their lifetime's work it seems. But i thank you for your consideration.

[Corran]

Your ignorance is annoying.

Dan, this attitude (regardless of intent) is what keeps this forum from flourishing more. I have heard many say they stay away from here due to elitist posters and rudeness. There was just no reason for it. Suggesting the books is fine but the intro sentences were totally unnecessary.

As for the question - lots and lots of f/9 lenses come without a shutter, meaning you can't time the exposures except by covering and uncovering the lens while the film is exposed, oftentimes by using a hat or lens cap. This can be a pain for multiple reasons, but if you are shooting slow collodion it can be workable. The short answer is, don't bother mounting it to a shutter, just put it on the camera, or buy a lens in shutter. Back to the collodion though - if you are after portraits or generally want a faster exposure, a faster lens is highly recommended. A 150mm f/4.5 in shutter will be 4x faster (2 stops) and can be had for under $100 generally. Look for a Zeiss Tessar or Schneider Xenar.

[Randy]

Dan, this attitude (regardless of intent) is what keeps this forum from flourishing more. I have heard many say they stay away from here due to elitist posters and rudeness. There was just no reason for it. Suggesting the books is fine but \the intro sentences were totally unnecessary.
+1

I would never treat a person like that...no matter how much I know (or think I know).
I doubt that he treats people like that in person because if he did, he would have learned his lesson long ago...I would hope.

[Dan Fromm]

Bryan, Randy, I don't know about you but I was certainly born ignorant. As you both should know, I'm a Certified Ignorant Barbarian. I took the course, passed the exam, have the certificate.

People who post in public forums must be prepared for responses that don't please. Mark, you are too sensitive by far. I have the impression, possibly mistaken, that your ideas about lenses came from using small format cameras with focal plane shutters and interchangeable lenses. If you're going to do LF and especially wet plate you'll have to escape from that cage.

Bryan, I'm glad you came forward and give the OP useful advice. You and I are the only people in this great wide forum to have given him anything. Randy, you've done nothing so far to help him.

[Corran]

I get it Dan. And suggesting the books is great - I read Adams' "The Camera" and "The Negative" front to back before I took one exposure on LF. The ignorance comment is just unnecessary and off-putting for most, regardless of how well-meaning you may have been.

[Randy]

Randy, you've done nothing so far to help him.Could it be because I know nothing of those lenses, therefor had nothing to offer about those lenses? But letting him know that he is not alone in his recognition of the "internet bully syndrome" can be helpful as well. For future reference - from now on when I come across an obviously rude comment posted by you, I will just report it.