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View Full Version : Brass Wollensak Vitax (13" / 3.8)



Cameron Cornell
2-Feb-2017, 07:31
Good morning.

En route from Kentucky is a 13" Wollensak Vitax No. 2 that I recently bought on the auction site.

I am curious about these unpainted brass Vitaxes. Does anyone know the dates that Wollensak offered these? I have looked through the old catalogues that are online, but I haven't run across any mention of whether the lenses described are painted or not, so I've not been able to reconstruct the date span.

Does anyone have any thoughts or information on this subject?

By the way, I bought the lens to mount on a beautiful and complete 7x11 Eastman View No. 2 that I found on Craigslist a few days ago in what had to be the worldwide deal of the week, but I will post about that next week on another thread after I've snapped some pictures of her.

Good day to you all!

Cameron Cornell
Washington State

goamules
2-Feb-2017, 08:29
You'll have a fine Petzval lens. Wollensak bought the Rochester Lens Company that made the "Royal" as it was first called, in 1905. It's also hard to say what year they went to black lacquer. I don't think that year is represented on the catalogs at the Camera Eccentric sight. At some point a catalog will probably say "new Lacquer finish!" But I've always thought black started post WWI.

I've got one of those 7x11 No. 2 cameras, it's a beauty. But the lensboard is pretty small, if you get the one I had. You may need to stack some pillows under your lens, if you can fit it on the board! You can get an 8x10 back for them too. Does it have this board?

https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2906/14011404914_446c7202d6_b.jpg

Chauncey Walden
2-Feb-2017, 11:11
I had one of those 7x11 D2s which cost me $75. The lens board was, of course, designed to center the lens over each half of the 7x11 in conjunction with a sliding panel in the back to produce 2 5x7 portraits. I used 8x10 holders in mine by taking a little slice off each long side of all wooden 8x10 holders and fitting a one inch board stop in the far end of the film holder channel. Wish I still had it and would go for 7x11.

Cameron Cornell
2-Feb-2017, 11:27
I forgot to mention that the lot also included four original 7x11 wooden film holders, 14 modern 8x10 film holders, four original wooden 8x10 film holders, and eight modern 5x7 film holders, all but three of the 8x10 modern film holders in good, useable condition.

Cameron Cornell
2-Feb-2017, 11:54
But back to the Vitax, if anyone has specific information on the date span of the unprinted brass version, that would be great.

I was going to post this question next week, but I might as well ask it now: Does anyone have recommendations for how to make a support for a heavy lens? I think it will be warranted with this setup.

Cameron Cornell
2-Feb-2017, 19:57
Ok well here is what I've found so far:

1906-7 Wollensak Catalogue has the Royal Portrait 3.8 that preceded the Vitax and was offered in lacquered brass.

1912-13 Wollensak Catalogue shows a brass Vitax and states, "The Vitax is handsomely finished in lacquered brass with black enamel trimmings..."

1916-17 Wollensak Catalogue shows a Vitax that is fully coated in black enamel with no mention of the finish in the text.

So perhaps I can safely assume that this brass Vitax No. 2 was manufactured between 1908 and 1915.

Cameron Cornell
2-Feb-2017, 20:07
"But the lensboard is pretty small, if you get the one I had. You may need to stack some pillows under your lens, if you can fit it on the board!"

I think the Vitax No. 2 should mount just fine as long as I make a support for the weight. The outer dimension of the flange is 6.25 inches, which is 1/16 of an inch less than the width of the board. The hole is a little over five inches in diameter. The Studio Shutter has been serviced recently and is functioning correctly, so that is what I plan to use for exposures.

Chauncey Walden
4-Feb-2017, 13:52
Cameron, with all of that, you got a good deal!

goamules
4-Feb-2017, 15:22
You may be able to fit the lens on that board, barely. But it's really a studio camera lens. Also, there are different No.2 Vitax diameters, they changed over the years. Here is a no. 2 I had, on a 9 inch studio board. Just to give you an idea, if you haven't actually handled one...they are massive.

https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3139/2877206124_72fcb3cea5_o.jpg

Cameron Cornell
4-Feb-2017, 15:40
You may be able to fit the lens on that board, barely. But it's really a studio camera lens. Also, there are different No.2 Vitax diameters, they changed over the years. Here is a no. 2 I had, on a 9 inch studio board. Just to give you an idea, if you haven't actually handled one...they are massive.

https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3139/2877206124_72fcb3cea5_o.jpg

I have a 16" Vitax that I use on my Ansco Studio No. 5, which uses 9" lens boards. The measurements for this No. 2 that's on its way our actual measurements that came from the seller. I do know from some old threads that Jim Galli has a 7x11 Eastman View No. 2 with an 18" Verito (!) mounted on it. I don't know, but I would assume that he uses a support. Do people use something standard for these supports, or just knock something together?

goamules
4-Feb-2017, 15:43
There is no standard way to support a large studio lens on a small field camera. Pillows, soup cans, and the like will work. Let us know how you fare. I learned long ago to stick to Studio cameras for giant Petzvals, but I have seen people use them on small cameras. It's not just the lensboard size. It's also how secure is the lensboard. You camera holds the lensboard with a tiny mortise. It's also the way the front standard is secured. Your camera uses three tiny screws on each side.

I know from which I speak, having broken off a front rail with a heavy lens once. I'd look for a way to save that lens, if it lets loose.

jnantz
4-Feb-2017, 16:15
i had mine attached to a camera with a tiny graphic view II lensboard ( 2" square? )
that had a collar that the lens screwed into. steve grimes made it out of aluminum for me and it worked like a charm.

Cameron Cornell
4-Feb-2017, 16:37
There is no standard way to support a large studio lens on a small field camera. Pillows, soup cans, and the like will work. Let us know how you fare. I learned long ago to stick to Studio cameras for giant Petzvals, but I have seen people use them on small cameras. It's not just the lensboard size. It's also how secure is the lensboard. You camera holds the lensboard with a tiny mortise. It's also the way the front standard is secured. Your camera uses three tiny screws on each side.

I know from which I speak, having broken off a front rail with a heavy lens once. I'd look for a way to save that lens, if it lets loose.

Garrett, I really do appreciate the words of warning. I'm going to deploy this setup very carefully. I'll post pictures to this thread when I hit the field in a few weeks. In the mean time, if anyone would post pictures here of supports they've used for heavy lenses like the Vitax, that'd be really helpful.

Cheers-

Cameron Cornell
www.analogportraiture.com

Greg
4-Feb-2017, 17:37
Here's what I use as a large & heavy lens support for my 8x10 Sinar Norma. Interestingly, its last owner and user was W. Eugene Smith! Know that because I purchased it from his son. Smith used an 8x10 Norma with long lenses for his photo essay on Pittsburg for LIFE magazine. Most people assume Smith used 35mm equipment exclusively. It is a little known fact that Smith also used LF equipment when he need to. Only limitation is that the largest lens one can mount on a Sinar board is one with a diameter of 4.8"

Cameron Cornell
4-Feb-2017, 18:08
Here's what I use as a large & heavy lens support for my 8x10 Sinar Norma. Interestingly, its last owner and user was W. Eugene Smith! Know that because I purchased it from his son. Smith used an 8x10 Norma with long lenses for his photo essay on Pittsburg for LIFE magazine. Most people assume Smith used 35mm equipment exclusively. It is a little known fact that Smith also used LF equipment when he needh to. Only limitation is that the largest lens one can mount on a Sinar board is one with a diameter of 4.8"

Wow, what a great piece of history! That looks like a simple, functional setup, too. Thank you, Greg.

Cameron Cornell
13-Jun-2017, 16:09
Here is a little update to this old thread:

As of a few weeks ago, the outfit is complete and I've shot my first images, which I'll process this coming Saturday.

To reiterate, it is a 7x11 Eastman View No. 2 with a brass 13" Wollensak Vitax that I was asking about in this thread and another thread in which I was asking your opinions about polishing the brass.

By the way, I decided against the overwhelming group opinion to go ahead and polish the brass. It had been polished before, so it wasn't as if I was removing the original patina. This was evidenced by some residue from old polish that was left in the seams where the lens threads together (so not only had it been polished, but it wasn't even a clean job). So yes, I polished it with Brasso and a microfiber cloth, and then rubbed and buffed a very thin layer of Johnson Wax. It has already dulled to a lovely (now even) patina. I'd do the same thing if I was working on a car built in 1908. For me, metal wants to be not necessarily polished to a blinding gleam, but at least clean and properly treated.

I had also asked about flange fabricators for this lens because the flange that came with the lens worked ok, but it was really stiff. I needed it to screw in and out easily because I have to do this every time I deploy or pack up the camera, as the lens board slides out to one side so the lens cannot stay on the board. I went with Steven Tribe's advice and used just a little valve cutting compound. With about ten minutes of working the lens back and forth in the flange, it would screw in all of the way with ease. Now it goes in and out with no effort. So a big thank you to Steven!

The lens board you see here was fabricated by Zbigniew Marczewski. He is a carpenter in Chicago who does incredible work. He made this one out of nine separate pieces of mahogany so that it would stay flat over time and he matched the stain perfectly to the original. All of this for a really reasonable price.

Finally, I should point out the brace that I made to support this giant, which was yet another question that came up in this odyssey. The second picture below shows it up close. It's just an L-shaped piece of aluminum with a hole cut (padded at the contact point with the camera) and a quarter inch bolt that is attached to what is actually a piece of oak that I cut to size, sunk the threads for the bolt, painted, and padded. I'd salvaged the wood from an antique chair that I was throwing out because it had finally fallen to pieces. This supports the lens just fine, and since the camera has the tripod attachment that allows the camera to slide back and forth, I can place the tripod right under the center of gravity.

I have the 5x7, 8x10, and 7x11 backs. This summer, I'll probably just shoot the 8x10. I ordered some HP-5 7x11 from this year's ULF run, so that should come in August or September. I'm looking forward to trying out that format.

Hopefully some of this information on the equipment or the process of putting it all together might be useful to someone else at some point.

Cheers,

Cameron Cornell
Washington State

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