Jollylook - The First Cardboard Vintage Instant Camera! [Archive]

plywood

2-Feb-2017, 12:47

I wonder how many are seeing this not as a cardboard camera but as the cheapest way to get an Instax Mini back that's readily hackable for other projects.

That metal roller and crank could perhaps be hacked into a back built out of more sturdy material. The cardboard back could serve as a dimensional guide for construction. The lens focal length, 110mm, is too long (narrow angle) corresponding to the angle of view of a 60mm lens on 35mm. Fine for portraits but too long for confined spaces. Note that the focal length of the Fuji and Leica cameras that take the Instax Mini film are 60mm. The diagonal of the mini image is 77mm. That said, my immediate reaction was 'I want one', especially at the backer price.
I know, I know, Kickstarter projects are not 'stores' and the backer dollar amounts are not the 'price' for the product. Still, I will probably take a chance and back it.

Tin Can

3-Feb-2017, 06:23

Yep, this is going to the Moon.

Just passed $110K inside 3 days, 28 days to go.

They have now opened stretch goals with backer only voting at $100K, $250K and $500K.

Study this phenomenon. I am.

plywood

5-Feb-2017, 20:32

Well, although I said I wanted it......I still fought with myself.
Until I was gone for a few hours and the missus started to nose around on my computer (mine is a PC, hers is Macbook)
Usually, with any photographic purchase it's 'why do you want that?' 'watcha gonna do with it?' and 'don't you already have three of those?'
This time, 'It's cute, get it!'
So now I'm #2811

I'm going to ask them if, after they fill all the backer requirements they will consider also selling just the metal bracket with rollers and crank. For the DIY crowd. Which am me and a bunch of other folks on this forum.

Jeff T

5-Feb-2017, 21:54

It would be more exiting if they offer an Instax Wide option. I hope the gears are made of metal rather than plastic. No onboard flash is fine but I hope they offer a sync port.

Will Frostmill

6-Feb-2017, 04:22

I'm pretty interested. Particularly for finding out what they made the bellows out of! If I could figure out some cheap cardboard bellows that actually were light tight...

plywood

7-Feb-2017, 21:53

This is still going nuts. Added 600+ more backers in 48 hours. Responding to a question by a backer they said the cameras will be made in China. I would imagine they will be shipped to backers from there but don't know for sure. For those undecided they are rapidly running out of the $38 option, next price will be $41 for 1 camera and 1 film pack.
As an aside, when I backed it the shipping charge shows up, it is $10 to the US, just FYI.

Don't think it will reach $1mil but $500K, yeah, that could happen. That would be about 13K cameras, they are at almost 5K now.

Edit: 2/8/17 Well sometime over the last 24 hours they added a $39 reward option, that should take care of the singles for the rest of the campaign.

plywood

1-Mar-2017, 12:10

Down to the wire, less than two days.
Just found out the bracket with the developing rollers has a removable crank and can be lifted right out of the camera without damage and reinstalled later.
Intend to make a camera that will use a 75mm f6.3 Novar from a 6X6 Nettar. Lens in shutter with front element focusing to 1 meter, built out of 1/8in hobby plywood.
Will resemble a 'box camera.
Well, that's my plan anyway.

Tin Can

16-Nov-2017, 14:54

Good update today.

It's moving along and they have done a lot.

But they got 20,000 wrong lenses, so a bit of a delay.

My third 'affordable' camera...

Oren Grad

16-Nov-2017, 15:42

Pesky Fresnel... :)

Looking forward to it!

plywood

16-Nov-2017, 22:56

Except for a few crabby folks most backers seem to on board and very understanding of the delay. I just hope I can extract that film holder/development module cleanly so I can make my own instant picture camera. I think they could sell a goodly number of just that module to DIY types, of which I am one.

Tin Can

29-Dec-2017, 13:10

Today's update with video of the factory.

Let's see if the embed works.

Nope! Go to the KS

letchhausen

30-Dec-2017, 03:05

Just ordered on the preorder. And yes, curious about extracting that Instax back once I've had my fun with the cardboard one. Now which will I receive first, my Jollylook or my Intrepid....?

plywood

30-Dec-2017, 15:21

I think a lot of DIY folks backed this thing hoping to adapt to a better lens/shutter setup. I wish that after they fill backer and pre-orders they offer just the developing/film holder module. I would imagine they could sell a few hundred world wide.

Tin Can

21-Jan-2018, 08:25

I think it is shipping. No notification on KS or by email.

But some kind of 'Shutter' is in transit from China to me.

I didn't order any shutters.

UPS says, 'Shipper: SHANGHAI SHUTTER TECHNOLOGY LIMITED'.

Delayed until next day, whatever that means.

plywood

21-Jan-2018, 21:57

Well that would be a surprise. Guess I should order some Instax Mini film from B&H before the price goes up again. I notice it is going up and up these last two months.

Oren Grad

22-Jan-2018, 17:25

Tin Can

22-Jan-2018, 17:31

KS update that just arrived in my email says that manufacturing is progressing OK except that the bodies will have to wait unfinished for a bit as they have to redo all of the bellows. So whatever is coming to you, Randy, is probably something else. :)

Yep, I just read that.

The only other possibility is a 30X40" poster I ordered 4 days ago. It said 2 to 3 weeks.

plywood

23-Jan-2018, 01:23

After a 2 year wait for the Travelwide (and even then with a helical that locked up tight) this newest delay is no big deal.

plywood

27-Feb-2018, 15:31

New update just posted. Proposed ship date of March 25th (must be start of shipping as I cannot see shipping 10K cameras in one day). So, if nothing else goes wrong we may start to see cameras in April.

plywood

10-Apr-2018, 14:06

For those still interested check out the comments section on the Jollylook KS site.

Tin Can

10-Apr-2018, 14:26

For those still interested check out the comments section on the Jollylook KS site.

Suspenseful!

plywood

10-Apr-2018, 22:26

Suspenseful!
You are a man of few words Randy. Probably better than me who often suffers from verbal diarrhea.

Oren Grad

30-Jun-2018, 09:57

Mine just arrived.

Tin Can

30-Jun-2018, 10:26

Mine just arrived.

Mine is 300 miles away in my state.

Oren Grad

30-Jun-2018, 20:59

OK, just did the ceremonial opening...

Imagine a little hunk of cardboard and vinyl that's simultaneously seriously overengineered and irredeemably chintzy. I think it will take great patience and finesse to use without destroying it pretty quickly.

At the "super early bird" price I paid on KS, and taking into account that a cartridge of film was included, I'll get my money's worth in entertainment value from it, so I'm OK with the "investment". OTOH, if I bought it at the retail prices that have been quoted - there's a website "vintagecamera.online" that's offering it at €59.00 - I would feel ripped off.

The film holder/development hardware is not separable from the camera body as a self-contained unit - on a first glance, either you extract the frame/crank/rollers from the camera body and put into some other light-tight box, or else you can rip the bellows out of the camera and build a new front on to the cardboard box that constitutes the camera body. Not clear how durable the crank and roller parts will be.

Tin Can

1-Jul-2018, 04:16

Exactly as expected. If it works long enough to consume the one pack of B&W I will not complain.

Then it will be put on a shelf as object of discussion.

Fin

Tin Can

2-Jul-2018, 10:57

Got mine just now.

Got distracted with the straws for snorting dope.

Kidding!

It's way nicer than I imagined. Wish I had bought 2, one for a time capsule...

Watched the video. Nicely packaged.

We need an image thread to post in.

Oren?

Tin Can

2-Jul-2018, 12:01

Not so Jolly now

It may have been ok and I did not turn the crank backward as they warn against that, but the reset gears have slipped their axel holes.

Maybe repairable, maybe a fatal flaw. This processing back is the fanciest piece of the Not So Jolly. Perhaps too thin of plastic used to hold the gears in place.

The gears rewind the 'kicker' as I call it, that pushes the cover off the film pack and onto the rollers. Never happened for me.

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1761/42439331594_e36bcd988c_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/27EdEHG)NOT SO JOLLY (https://flic.kr/p/27EdEHG) by TIN CAN COLLEGE (https://www.flickr.com/photos/tincancollege/), on Flickr

Tin Can

2-Jul-2018, 12:25

Well, that's as far as I can go until I get new glasses. So I packed up the bits until then.

The film processor part is easily removable after taking off the winder, which has a very tiny screw. Then you just carefully pry it out. It is not glued or fastened in any way. There are 2 locating pins for it at the top. Lift from the bottom and spread the case a bit to clear the winder shaft.

Oren Grad

2-Jul-2018, 15:40

We need an image thread to post in.

Oren?

Hey, anyone's welcome to post in a relevant existing "everything else" thread (Polaroids and Fujiroids, say) or start a new one!

As it comes out of the box, at least, it desperately needs the straws.

Tin Can

3-Jul-2018, 05:11

Hey, anyone's welcome to post in a relevant existing "everything else" thread (Polaroids and Fujiroids, say) or start a new one!

As it comes out of the box, at least, it desperately needs the straws.

Agreed. The mysterious straws are 'props'!

Someone else will need to post the first 'roids taken. :)

Mark Sampson

3-Jul-2018, 09:33

Cheap but not very cheerful.

Tin Can

3-Jul-2018, 10:11

A trifle

Sorry Mark about the other day. Some things set me off.

Cheap but not very cheerful.

plywood

5-Jul-2018, 15:53

Well, for the last 6-8 months they, Jollylook, have been going on about how they don't want to ship the camera until it's "prefect". After reading all the comments on the KS site and here, I figure they have given up on that idea and I might as well have tossed my $48 in the trash. Even the pack of film is worthless since I have nothing else to shoot it in. (Unless I spend another $56 for a Fuji camera from B&H.)
I'd also give it a 50/50 chance that we will never hear from Oleg and the gang again.
I might save the lens, stick it on a 4x5 focused at infinity, and stop it down to f64 to use as a tripod only 4x5 box camera. Focus should extend from about 4ft. to infinity.

plywood

25-Jul-2018, 17:20

Well finally update #22, after stone cold silence for 40 days or so. Not much hope to get a working camera within the next 3-4 months, if what Jollylook says is correct and they can build reliable units maybe Nov-Dec 2018. This is a wild guess because there is no projected timeline is this update.

plywood

3-Aug-2018, 19:58

Wonder of wonders, they actually responded to one of my questions in the 'comments' section. And a couple of days ago they answered several backer questions in the comments section. Perhaps they are realizing that radio silence is bad policy, for any Kickstarter creator. (especially if they intend to run additional KS campaigns)

germansaram

25-Aug-2018, 02:21

It looked like a good project for me. Sad to read what happened to you. And it's definitely not so good to keep silent completely as you said, plywood. Hope you guys get a working replacement soon.

WayneStevenson

16-Jan-2019, 19:24

Anyone ever receive theirs? Thought they were shipping soon?

Jim Graves

16-Jan-2019, 22:51

Nothing yet.

Last update on 12/10/2018 says they'll start shipping in December and finish in March 2019.

So, apparently shipping had not started when that was posted on the 10th and they couldn't even give a date certain ... even though they were estimating it would start within the next 3 weeks ... I'm not holding my breath.

And, it sounds like they will need to sell some of the first batches to pay some shipping costs ... and since their shipping from the Ukraine, I'm thinking us Western Hemisphere pledgers, with our higher shipping costs will be last on the list.

About time for them to post a new update.

Tin Can

17-Jan-2019, 05:52

What's not clear is if Jollylook is sending every one that already has a broken from day 1 replacement

Which I believe is 100% of entire first run

Or are they only replacing the ones that have complained

Jolly is not clear on replacement policy

I started this thread, so it's all my fault...

WayneStevenson

17-Jan-2019, 06:52

Yes, they did say they were going send some to distributors first. But they haven't mentioned that since and that was a long time ago (or did I stop reading every update carefully?) so I wasn't sure. I'm not holding my breath either. I wrote that camera off like a year ago. lol.

But then again, I did end up receiving a Wanderlust Travelwide eventually. Hahahaha.

plywood

18-Jan-2019, 08:37

This is my 4th time backing a KS campaign, I cannot see backing another. Seems like an almost universal trait of project creators is little to no communication with backers.
I too backed the Travelwide. The focusing on mine never worked right and after 6 months or so, not at all.
For what it is worth, I don't think most of the folks who do these projects are crooks, they just get in over their heads.
After seeing the photo posted by Randy Mo I also have a bad feeling that the film development unit (the only part I really wanted) is just a poor design.
After this last campaign the only 'donation' I'll make is to the homeless guy holding a sign that reads; "I won't lie, I want beer"

plywood

7-Feb-2019, 15:35

For anyone here interested or who backed this:
I e-mailed Jollylook directly on 1/30/19 about the lack of updates and they finally replied. In part this was their reply;

"Since we moved the production to Ukraine, we have been working on improving the quality of the cameras.
We are working very hard to complete them as soon as possible and start delivering the rewards to all backers by the end of March 2019.
We will post a new update as soon as we start the deliveries."

So, it appears they are still having problems with defective units and the update of December 10th where they stated "...we will start shipping in December and plan to ship all cameras to backers by March 2019..." has now slipped (yet again) by at least two months.

I thanked them and replied that my e-mail was not about the delay but about the lack of updates. I also told them they could not wait until they start deliveries to post an update and need to post and update every week (even if there is no news) out of respect for backers.

Andrew O'Neill

8-Feb-2019, 10:06

Tin Can

8-Feb-2019, 10:18

The design was correct, the materials and manufacture were not.

I will back more KS as it is fun to watch something happen, even if it is failure.

Albert Einstein had many failures, read his thoughts on trying, https://motivationgrid.com/21-inspiring-quotes-by-albert-einstein/

Or join the crowd, "We've gotta protect our phony baloney jobs!" from Blazing Saddles the movie
(https://youtu.be/uTmfwklFM-M)

"After seeing the photo posted by Randy Mo I also have a bad feeling that the film development unit (the only part I really wanted) is just a poor design. "

plywood

8-Feb-2019, 12:13

I will back more KS as it is fun to watch something happen, even if it is failure.

"After seeing the photo posted by Randy Mo I also have a bad feeling that the film development unit (the only part I really wanted) is just a poor design. "

I'd like to "watch something happen" also. Trouble is, when things go wrong and there are unforeseen delays most creators clam up, go dark, stop communicating with backers. How can the backers be part of the journey if they are shut out and ignored?

I'd rather see crowdfunding structured something like this for hardware related projects;
*No large donations. Limit backer amounts from $5~$20.
*No product rewards. Instead you receive a 'voucher' for a discount on the final product, when and if the campaign is successful and the product is sold commercially.
*Full disclosure and a standard accounting for how the money is spent. Donations are held by third party in escrow and dispersed only for confirmed project expenses.
*Updates on the project are not at the creators discretion but are required to be regular, otherwise funds are not released.
*25% of the funds collected are withheld and not released until the product is brought to completion and any backer issues with final product are resolved.

This is considerably more controlled than the current Kickstarter business model of, "well folks, after we collect our 5%, we don't know you." Yeah, you can fill in that little "report this project to Kickstarter" template if it makes you feel better. We won't/cannot take any meaningful action when projects go south.

Finally, Kickstarter's more direct hand in project oversight would cost more and require a higher commission, probably doubling from the current 5% to 10%.

However, if project creators, after demonstrating competence and voluntary compliance with these more restrictive guidelines could for future projects receive discounts on KS commissions by singing a legal agreement to exercise these guidelines themselves, without direct KS oversight.

Tin Can

8-Feb-2019, 12:37

Create a Startup with those ideas!

Perhaps, Plywood Starter?

Not kidding!

plywood

8-Feb-2019, 21:39

Create a Startup with those ideas!

Perhaps, Plywood Starter?

Not kidding!

Plywood Starter!? That's rich. Let Kickstarter implement it, they have the name recognition. Perhaps they could call it 'Enhanced Kickstarter' (you know, like 'enhanced' interrogation) Or, 'Kickstarter Plus'. They already have a branch of the business called Quickstarter, for small or limited projects. They could start it as a side business and still keep their current devil-may-care cash cow business model.

But what does Mr. Moe think of these ideas? Are they too draconian? Will they crush the fragile flower of a great idea before it even starts? Will it weed out the ones just too inexperienced and unprepared to run a successful campaign? I would hope so. Will it eliminate outright crooks and con men? Probably. (But I rather doubt there are that many of those types on Kickstarter.) Do you think Kickstarter.com could or should take a more hands on, proactive role in their crowdfunding platform?

plywood

10-Jun-2019, 13:38

Well folks, Jollylook just posted their last update. With at least 2/3 of the rewards not shipped and no plan to replace bad cameras already sent out. This last update was, when translated into plain speak, this message. "Kiss off backers, you ain't going to see your rewards (but thanks for setting us up in business)."

Jim Graves

10-Jun-2019, 22:58

Not what the update says at all.

Oren Grad

11-Jun-2019, 07:59

Here is the gist of it:

It turned out that we were too optimistic, after solving all the problems with production and setting it up, we don’t have enough money to buy film and continue shipping rewards in the planned quantities and time.

Although we were forced, as we wrote earlier, to sell some of the cameras, sales are not going as well as expected and do not provide sufficient funds.... we are in a situation where we need to sell two cameras in order to be able to ship one reward to you, our backers.... We will be sending rewards in small batches every two weeks. The sooner we will be able to sell more cameras, the sooner we will be able to ship all the rewards.... We will continue to work very hard to fulfil our obligations and will keep you informed. All of you will receive your rewards!

Andrew O'Neill

11-Jun-2019, 08:52

Sounds to me like they are still committed, Mr. Plywood.

plywood

11-Jun-2019, 09:23

As I said, plain speak, or, if you prefer, bottom line, how about net result?
The real galling thing about it is lack of response to reasonable backer questions, for instance;

Numerous backers have asked ‘Can you send the cameras without film?’
Jollylook, no answer.
I asked, ‘Can you just send me a development unit with crank?’
Jollylook, no answer.
Several backers have offered to pay for shipping.
Jollylook, no answer.

Now I know this is common among kickstarter creators. It seems that when things go wrong the natural tendency is to clam up, go dark, refuse to communicate.
But that said, my feeling is, if you just cannot fulfill your promise, then at least answer backer questions. That will cost creators some time, even sleepless nights, but it is the right thing to do.

plywood

11-Jun-2019, 09:39

Sounds to me like they are still committed, Mr. Plywood.

Trouble is, the retail price they have on their own website is $69, and this does not include shipping. Freestyle apparently have them in stock for $65, but again, there will be shipping to add. Originally their own site had the camera priced at $55 but that was changed over a month ago.
At these prices I rather doubt they can sell enough units to ever fulfill backer rewards.
One thing they could do is a survey of backers to determine if, for a certain additional funding, say $18 per backer, they would have enough additional capital to complete and ship backer rewards. Not ideal for sure but, they should at least give backers an option.

jaapdijks

13-Jun-2019, 01:59

I am one of the backers. I am hopeful they will eventually send one of their cameras my way.

If not then not, it is one of the risk of supporting a kickstarter campaign that a project may fail. I am happy that they have not given up yet.

They have sent an update wher the backers can indicate that sending no film is okay, answering to comments from backers to do this.

Jaap

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munz6869

13-Jun-2019, 04:56

I've received my camera already, down here in chilly Australia. I haven't had a chance to test it yet, but its nicely packaged...

Marc!

DrTang

13-Jun-2019, 07:21

I'm one of the original backers.. and honestly, have given up on ever seeing a camera. I figure Kickstarter is always a crapshoot and I lost this roll...HOWEVER.. that Kickstarter magy back I got for my Nikon FA that uses the square instax film... WINNER... big winner... that thing rules

plywood

13-Jun-2019, 17:53

Yep, took the survey, indicated I would accept the no film offer. But I didn't bite on their extra $10 plea. Not gonna sink another sawbuck down that rabbit hole.
I'm probably not a good crowdfunding candidate. Never gambled or even bought a lottery ticket my whole life, it's just not me.
(And yes, I have a 401K, but I watch it and have always looked to the long game, no short hand get-rich-quick schemes.)