Fujinon fuji W 250mm f/6.7 --VS-- Schneider Angulon 210mm F/6.8

[RussPhoto]

Hard to find nowadays good copy of Schneider Angulon 210mm F/6.8... What do you think Fujinon W 250mm F/6.7 could be a good alternative as gentle wide angle lens on 8x10 to Schneider Angulon 210mm F/6.8. Both have pretty much the same angle of view and image circle but different focal length.
Fujinon W 250mm f/6.7, image circle 398, angle of view 80
Schneider Angulon 210mm F/6.8, image circle 382, angle of view 85

Thanks so much to every reply!

[Dan Fromm]

Russ, you're confusing the angle of view that's equivalent to the circle covered with the angle of view seen when 8x10 is covered. A 210 that covers 8x10 sees 72 degrees on 8x10, a 250 sees 62 degrees. 72 is quite a bit wider.

[mdarnton]

The 210 Fujinon W would give you the 210 angle without quite the circle (352mm), but still pretty good, and cheap! How much movement do you really need?

[MAubrey]

It's hard to find any copy--good or otherwise--of the Angulon 210!

As mdarnton says, the Fujinon 210mm f/5.6 covers 8x10 (350mm IC). And it's good enough for contact printing.

[RussPhoto]

Not really much, just some general landscapes and architectural work

[RussPhoto]

Dan, this what Fujinon and Schneider tech spec info says regarding 8x10 format.

[Dan Fromm]

Russ, stop and think for a minute.

A lens projects a cone of rays. The relationship between the cone's angle, the lens' focal length and the diameter of the circle covered (the circle is the intersection of the cone with a plane perpendicular to the lens' axis and one focal length behind the lens' rear node) is, in pidgin Excel: circle's diameter = focal length*2*TAN(RADIANS(angle/2)). We say that a lens covers a format when the circle covered is no smaller than the format's diagonal.

The cone's angle is the angle mentioned in lens makers' propaganda. So is the circle covered. Got that?

Now, LF lenses typically cover circles larger than the formats they're used on. Otherwise, no decentering movements.

An 8x10 sheet of film's diagonal is approximately 305 mm. Agree or disagree?

Rewrite the magic formula I gave above, putting the angle on the left of the equal sign and everything else on the right. In pidgin Excel, the angle =2*DEGREES(ATAN((circle's diameter/2)/focal length))

Now set the circle's diameter to 305 mm and the focal length to 210 mm. That gets the angle the film sees. 72 degrees. Do the same with focal length 250 mm. 62.8 degrees.

If you were right, lenses with the same coverage and different focal lengths would produce the same image with the same camera setup. Do you really believe this? If you do, I have a bridge that you should buy.

[David E. Rose]

I have both lenses. I haven't used them a ton, but the Fujinon is sharper than the Angulon. I have both because the Fujinon is a modest wide angle and I wanted something wider for architectural work. The Angulon would be a good option if it was a bit sharper. I think part of the problem is that for architectural images, I am often using front rise and I suspect that the Angulon has a fall off in sharpness at the edges of it's image circle. The Fujinon, like most modern lenses, holds it's sharpness to the edges better than older lens designs.

[Alan Gales]

I paid $300 for my Fujinon W 250mm f/6.7 lens and was very happy. I've since seen them go for $250 and even less. That is a bargain for a great 8x10 lens. If you like the focal length then go for it.

[RussPhoto]

"lens makers' propaganda"!? I like this expression very much:o Thanks, Dan! It will be my home assignment to find out everything about mystery of angles of view and circle coverage.
Russ, stop and think for a minute.

A lens projects a cone of rays. The relationship between the cone's angle, the lens' focal length and the diameter of the circle covered (the circle is the intersection of the cone with a plane perpendicular to the lens' axis and one focal length behind the lens' rear node) is, in pidgin Excel: circle's diameter = focal length*2*TAN(RADIANS(angle/2)). We say that a lens covers a format when the circle covered is no smaller than the format's diagonal.

The cone's angle is the angle mentioned in lens makers' propaganda. So is the circle covered. Got that?

Now, LF lenses typically cover circles larger than the formats they're used on. Otherwise, no decentering movements.

An 8x10 sheet of film's diagonal is approximately 305 mm. Agree or disagree?

Rewrite the magic formula I gave above, putting the angle on the left of the equal sign and everything else on the right. In pidgin Excel, the angle =2*DEGREES(ATAN((circle's diameter/2)/focal length))

Now set the circle's diameter to 305 mm and the focal length to 210 mm. That gets the angle the film sees. 72 degrees. Do the same with focal length 250 mm. 62.8 degrees.

If you were right, lenses with the same coverage and different focal lengths would produce the same image with the same camera setup. Do you really believe this? If you do, I have a bridge that you should buy.

[ic-racer]

When observing negatives with a loupe and enlargements as small as 1.4x, both my Fuji 210 (80 degree) and 250 f6.7 were noticeably better at the far limits of image circle than the late model 210 Angulon Copal 3 that I had. Probably couldn't tell the difference on contacts, but I don't make contacts.

For me, the Fujinons are keepers and I sold the Angulon.

160517
160518

[Randy]

I paid $300 for my Fujinon W 250mm f/6.7 lens and was very happy. I've since seen them go for $250 and even less. That is a bargain for a great 8x10 lens. If you like the focal length then go for it.About a year ago one was for sale here on the forum. I decided to check ebay - got one from a seller in Japan that was in better (excellent) condition for a tad less...even the shipping was less. I paid $160 for it. I really like the lens for 8X10.

[EdWorkman]

I second ic-racer
The Fuji is VERY hard to beat for sharpness.
I got it to take a wedding shot- as a member of the groom's party, not official. I took a shot of the bride, outdoors in mixed afternoon light/shade, no meter, not much time to set up.
I was able to enlarge to 16x20 and print the texture in the dress fabric in a full person framing

[mdarnton]

Most of my modern lenses are inside-lettered Fujinon-Ws. Once I realized that most of them cover one size up compared with similar German lenses, and that they're dirt cheap, I started to stock up. My 210mm cost me something like $100, from Japan via Ebay.

[David Karp]

Michael,

I have also gotten some great deals on inside-lettered Fujinon lenses. My first 90mm was a f/8 Fujinon SW. The only reason I sold it was to upgrade to a 90mm f/8 Nikkor solely to get the larger image circle. I picked up a beautiful 250mm f/6.7 Fujinon W for $200 from Japan at the same time I purchased a very nice 135mm f/5.6 Fujinon W for my 5x7 for only $100! I also purchased a 180mm f/5.6 Fujinon W for $100, again from Japan. The 180mm and 250mm are nice for Whole Plate.

The W and NW series are often great deals too, selling for less than comparable Nikons, Rodenstocks, and Schneiders. I am really happy with all of them.

The expensive Fujinons seem to be some of the newer wide angles, the CM-W series, the C series, and the A series multicoated lenses, especially the 240mm and above.

[RussPhoto]

I guess Fujinon W 210mm F/5.6 with inner lettering and 58mm filter thread mount is that one you mentioned earlier with 352 IC? I just checked eBay there are so many of them in 210mm F/5.6. Some even have CM-W?

Most of my modern lenses are inside-lettered Fujinon-Ws. Once I realized that most of them cover one size up compared with similar German lenses, and that they're dirt cheap, I started to stock up. My 210mm cost me something like $100, from Japan via Ebay.

[David Karp]

That is the one. The ones with the lettering on the outside of the barrel have smaller image circles. http://www.subclub.org/fujinon/byseries.htm

The ones marked Fujinon W on the outside of the lens barrel are EBC multicoated and came after the series you described. Those are actually from the NW series, but Fuji did not mark them this way on the lenses. (Why Fuji did this, who knows?) The CM-W series is the most recent iteration.

[RussPhoto]

Thank you for info, David!

[David Karp]

You are welcome.

[TAG]

I have both the 250mm f6.7 Fujinon and the 210mm Angulon. The 210mm Angulon should be used stopped down to at least f16 (f22 or smaller is even better) if you want to make the best use of its huge image circle. I like the Angulon just fine and haven't had any problems with sharpness with black and white, although for color work the Fujinon might be better if you don't need the wider view of the Angulon. Most of the time I go with the Angulon.